Arizona Governor signs new immigration law, Obama disagrees with the states rights?

The fact that this has become a bit...heated HERE in this forum, is indicative of the angst that it has evoked nationwide.

One comment that was made, and I'm cutting it from an entire thought so give me some leeway here...

"...hey all took an oath, but have done zilch, nothing about a comprehensive plan."

FIRST: I completely agree with the quote. But then I would ask what is meant by a "comprehensive plan?" I hear a similar term on the news, read it in the papers, hear it in discussions at work, etc., and that term is "comprehensive immigration reform."

And immediately you get two answers, depending upon whom you speak with. If the person is predominately a "republican type" you hear the words "amnesty" and "reward the law breakers." If they're predominately "democrat types" you hear the term "...a pathway to citizenship" and "legal right to be in the country and to work."

And there's the crux of the problem, IMHO. In 1986 with the illegal immigrant invasion in full swing and the people completely angered and the government torn between the law and the pull/push/strength of special interest groups (SIG), it was decided to offer a general "amnesty" to those in the country illegally. And it was done with comments by the gov't that this would NOT happen again, we were a nation of laws, we have immigration methods in place for people to come to this country legally, to begin the process of application for legal residency, etc. So amnesty will never happen again.

This opened the floodgates, again IMHO, because it told folks two key things:

a. The gov't can easily be swayed by massive protest combined with the "political correctness" of name calling
b. The gov't will NOT enforce those laws that enough money is used to fight, regardless of their legality.

So...what happened after 1986/7? Another even more massive invasion. Why? Well, the job markets were pretty good, the countries south of our border (where the vast majority of illegal immigrants come from) were generally in a 3d world condition or completely broken by drug cartels, corruption in government, etc...etc... Hey, I can't blame anyone from wanting that to change, but...change it there, not here...but I digress.

Now? We have a huge number of illegals here in this country. They'd taken jobs, stolen ID, etc...etc... Now, other than the "ID theft, use of facilities they're not entitled to, working in the country without the legal right to work and hold employment, and such" most have done nothing "violent or more criminal." However they are ALL breaking our laws. You know, those laws we're required to uphold? And most folks take the opinion, publicly, of "I won't see it."

However in those states, communities, etc., that are impacted heavily, this is a VERY sore subject! Folks have pretty much hit their limit on the "non action" as described by several posters in this forum. In other words: "Enough is enough!"

But what to do? Do we "legalize" all the illegals in our country and just say "pay a fine, any back taxes, ID yourself, and then we'll put you on a pathway to citizenship?"

Well, I'm okay with that, just as soon as you FIRST and FOREMOST allow EVERY overseas applicant for immigration to the USA that did it the LEGAL way, to come here and take their place first.

Are we ready for millions of folks to suddenly descend upon our country because of their hope for a better life? While that was a normal process in our nations' early years, it's not been that way for almost 100 years AND back then the process was a "legal" one. Go visit Ellis Island and see what immigrants had to do to gain legal entry. But I digress, again.

Back when the huge immigrant migration came to the USA we were in the midst of our industrial revolution and we had literally an unending, growing supply of jobs for all! That is not the case today; and certainly not after the economic woes of the past 3+ years. You can't just let in millions of people and then, with no "liveable" job market available, put them on welfare because there's no jobs for them. There's nothing good to be gained from that. Bottom line, we have laws, and methods that you must follow to come here legally. Do we simply tell the global population "Sorry if you wanted to do this the legal way, but those that broke our laws are already here so we're putting them to the head of the line...we'll get back to you in a decade or so?"

Not right.

What's the answer? In an ideal world, it's simply what was done in 1954 by the Eisenhower administration: they went after the illegals in this country. The arrested them, deported them, arrested the business owners that hired them, etc...etc...and over 1,000,000 folks departed the USA. And the after affect? Illegal immigration was pretty much a non-issue for more than 20 years. The USA had made its point: come here legally and we welcome you as our new family members! Come here illegally and we will find you and send you back on a moments notice, with no warning.

Is that harsh? I suppose so. Does it bother me much? No. Because in the end, the person that complains the most about how "cruel" and "harsh" it is...is the person that broke the law, or the PAC/SIG that wants the law to change to afford unlimited immigration. Will this happen? In the "Politically Correct States of America" that answer is no. So in the end, we find ourselves in the fix we're currently in.

Okay...long post almost complete. I just wanted to sound off a bit on the subject, with no arguments with anyone because if you've read my posts here on the SA Forums you know first and foremost I'm an ALO and I pretty much live to help the "kids" obtain their goals of attending an SA (USAFA if I can help it :biggrin: ) and serving our nation as officers. But I'm also a "regular guy" who happens to live in Arizona...the land of all the controversy right now.

Okay...if you've gotten this far, I thank you for your interest.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
I have two Russian friends who recently gained citizenship. When amnesty is mentioned around either of them, they are deeply offended. After the dedication and effort their family put into becoming US citizens, the idea of other attaining it without any effort angers them.
 
MakeItHappen said:
Neither. Your narrow-mindedness is showing.


At best, it shows folks sheer frustration with our lack of comprehensive immigration policy. At worst, (fill in the blank).



It's a dead horse in the sense that the law will not stand until vetted by the courts. We'll await the outcome.



Well there you go again. Quit *****ing about Obama. This problem has been around for decades, but it's the President's fault. In Texas, we have one Republican Senator who has been in office for 17 years. The other Republican Senator has been in office 8 yrs., preceeded by another Republican Senator of 17 yrs. They all took an oath, but have done zilch, nothing about a comprehensive plan. The Leftists and the Rightists have screwed up on thing after another. More Americans need to think for themselves and quit listening to the political infotainers on TV and radio. You understand they get PAID to say stupid stuff. You betcha!
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Don't like plain speak do you :yllol:

Let me educate you one more time.
The reason it's time for Obama to have this in his face is: because he's sidling up to Illegals and wants it both ways, votes and pretend rhetoric. I couldn't care less what the other "R's" did or do, time for Obama to actually do something and your name calling here, and on the National scene, are getting you nowhere :wink:
 
Maximus said:
Don't like plain speak do you :yllol:

Let me educate you one more time.
Click to expand...

Sir, get a grip.

Maximus said:
The reason it's time for Obama to have this in his face is: because he's sidling up to Illegals and wants it both ways, votes and pretend rhetoric. I couldn't care less what the other "R's" did or do, time for Obama to actually do something and your name calling here, and on the National scene, are getting you nowhere :wink:
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You are too caught up in the political aspect of the situation. Re-read my position on the legal aspect. The courts will handle it. That's the direction I'm coming from. The political stuff is collateral to the law. You seem to have me confused with some political movement.

Your original post begs for divergent views. Quit with the political drama. There are folks here from every persuasion.
 
osdad said:
If the opportunities were not here, there wouldn't be people trying to get here. Two things to do; improve the lives of those living in Mex & Central Amer and prosecute those who profit from hiring them.
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Why is improving the lives of those in Central America the responsibility of the United States? I don't quite understand...its how I've never understood charities and churches that devote time and lots of money to traveling to foreign countries, often dangerous places, to help THEIR needy, when there are homeless people just blocks away in the city in which they live in...I don't think its morally right to be going lengths to provide aid to people of other nations while doing less or nothing for disadvantaged people in our own country.

Its not like illegal immigrants living in the USA somehow greatly improve their lives by being here. Sure, conditions are better...its much easier to find a job and its a lot safer, but when you look at it closely, you can't really argue that being illegal somehow makes them "happier." Illegal immigrants are generally employed in dirty and dangerous jobs and always live under constant stress over the fear of being discovered and deported. In addition, illegal immigrants also cause themselves more harm by trying to cross the border. Violent encounters with border patrols often result in deaths and injuries. Some die trying to cross the desert. Preventing illegal immigration and discouraging it (with laws like this one) in reality helps to-be illegal immigrants as much as it helps Americans.

If helping the disadvantaged people of a foreign country indeed was a mission of our nation (which I would strongly disagree with), there are far better ways of solving it. If there ever was a solution, its somehow assisting countries like Mexico and Haiti, where the majority of illegal immigrants come from, restore themselves as governments with a legitimate ability to provide for their own citizens instead of burdening others with basically what are refugees fleeing unlivable conditions that they themselves fail to address.

It all comes down to putting the interests of our citizens first. I doubt most Americans are against legal immigration...its ILLEGAL immigration that most Americans are opposed to and allowing illegal immigrants to live in the USA is NOT the long-term solution to improving these peoples' lives.
 
MakeItHappen said:
Sir, get a grip.



You are too caught up in the political aspect of the situation. Re-read my position on the legal aspect. The courts will handle it. That's the direction I'm coming from. The political stuff is collateral to the law. You seem to have me confused with some political movement.

Your original post begs for divergent views. Quit with the political drama. There are folks here from every persuasion. (sp???)
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Yeah, I'm all caught up in the political aspect of this and you are simply here to give legal opinion from Austin :yllol::shake::yllol:

Nice try counselor! :thumb:

BTW, here are your words from that profanity laced post calling me names, I think you should get a grip lol

Quote by Make it Happen: "This problem has been around for decades, but it's the President's fault. In Texas, we have one Republican Senator who has been in office for 17 years. The other Republican Senator has been in office 8 yrs., preceeded by another Republican Senator of 17 yrs." ???


BTW, I've read every one of your hundreds of posts here, and they all come from the same political persuasion, everyone here reads into it. :wink:
 
The whiners should be glad I'm not the one who wrote the law.

I'd have given the landowners the green light to engage targets as they presented themselves across the border, no bag limit, and subsidized ammo.

I almost hit a bunch of these rats on more than one occaision when I was working in Mexico and they were making a dash to cross the Rio Grande. SCREW THEM.

Of course, they sneak into THIS country then go around proclaiming how proud they are to be from THAT country. Well, in that case, GET YOUR ASS BACK ACROSS THE BORDER, PACO! :mad:
 
Whether or not he is (or you are) for the law, that joke was out of taste.
 
vampsoul said:
Whether or not he is (or you are) for the law, that joke was out of taste.
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I agree and I'm sorry the President didn't have the tact to stay above the fray; with comments like that, he's dividing Americans. :thumbdown:
 
Where can you find the actual law? I mean, the actual written bill.
 
I thought this was worth mentioning.
New Immigration Laws: Read to the bottom or you will miss the
message...



1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
2. All ballots will be in this nation's language.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
3. All government business will be conducted in our language.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs. Any burden will be deported.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
9.. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted &, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Too strict?......

The above laws are the current immigration laws of Mexico.

Now. why is it wrong to have the same laws here?
 
I like what was said at the end about being far away... Much of the media is making it look like the American public is totally against this law, when over 70percent of people approve of it.
 
fly boy said:
I like what was said at the end about being far away... Much of the media is making it look like the American public is totally against this law, when over 70percent of people approve of it.
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Approval by the populous does not equate to constitutionality. The justice system will have its say one way or the other.
 
excerpt from USC section 1304:

e) Personal possession of registration or receipt card; penalties
Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times
carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate
of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to
him pursuant to subsection (d) of this section. Any alien who fails
to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of
a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined
not to exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or
both.

It is already a federal law. I don't see how the federal government can cause uproar about a law it already has on the books.
 
MakeItHappen said:
Approval by the populous does not equate to constitutionality. The justice system will have its say one way or the other.
Click to expand...

I agree with that, but I hate it that the media makes it seem that everyone is in an uproar against it when it is really not so.
 
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