- Joined
- Jul 26, 2008
- Messages
- 6,207
The fact that this has become a bit...heated HERE in this forum, is indicative of the angst that it has evoked nationwide.
One comment that was made, and I'm cutting it from an entire thought so give me some leeway here...
"...hey all took an oath, but have done zilch, nothing about a comprehensive plan."
FIRST: I completely agree with the quote. But then I would ask what is meant by a "comprehensive plan?" I hear a similar term on the news, read it in the papers, hear it in discussions at work, etc., and that term is "comprehensive immigration reform."
And immediately you get two answers, depending upon whom you speak with. If the person is predominately a "republican type" you hear the words "amnesty" and "reward the law breakers." If they're predominately "democrat types" you hear the term "...a pathway to citizenship" and "legal right to be in the country and to work."
And there's the crux of the problem, IMHO. In 1986 with the illegal immigrant invasion in full swing and the people completely angered and the government torn between the law and the pull/push/strength of special interest groups (SIG), it was decided to offer a general "amnesty" to those in the country illegally. And it was done with comments by the gov't that this would NOT happen again, we were a nation of laws, we have immigration methods in place for people to come to this country legally, to begin the process of application for legal residency, etc. So amnesty will never happen again.
This opened the floodgates, again IMHO, because it told folks two key things:
a. The gov't can easily be swayed by massive protest combined with the "political correctness" of name calling
b. The gov't will NOT enforce those laws that enough money is used to fight, regardless of their legality.
So...what happened after 1986/7? Another even more massive invasion. Why? Well, the job markets were pretty good, the countries south of our border (where the vast majority of illegal immigrants come from) were generally in a 3d world condition or completely broken by drug cartels, corruption in government, etc...etc... Hey, I can't blame anyone from wanting that to change, but...change it there, not here...but I digress.
Now? We have a huge number of illegals here in this country. They'd taken jobs, stolen ID, etc...etc... Now, other than the "ID theft, use of facilities they're not entitled to, working in the country without the legal right to work and hold employment, and such" most have done nothing "violent or more criminal." However they are ALL breaking our laws. You know, those laws we're required to uphold? And most folks take the opinion, publicly, of "I won't see it."
However in those states, communities, etc., that are impacted heavily, this is a VERY sore subject! Folks have pretty much hit their limit on the "non action" as described by several posters in this forum. In other words: "Enough is enough!"
But what to do? Do we "legalize" all the illegals in our country and just say "pay a fine, any back taxes, ID yourself, and then we'll put you on a pathway to citizenship?"
Well, I'm okay with that, just as soon as you FIRST and FOREMOST allow EVERY overseas applicant for immigration to the USA that did it the LEGAL way, to come here and take their place first.
Are we ready for millions of folks to suddenly descend upon our country because of their hope for a better life? While that was a normal process in our nations' early years, it's not been that way for almost 100 years AND back then the process was a "legal" one. Go visit Ellis Island and see what immigrants had to do to gain legal entry. But I digress, again.
Back when the huge immigrant migration came to the USA we were in the midst of our industrial revolution and we had literally an unending, growing supply of jobs for all! That is not the case today; and certainly not after the economic woes of the past 3+ years. You can't just let in millions of people and then, with no "liveable" job market available, put them on welfare because there's no jobs for them. There's nothing good to be gained from that. Bottom line, we have laws, and methods that you must follow to come here legally. Do we simply tell the global population "Sorry if you wanted to do this the legal way, but those that broke our laws are already here so we're putting them to the head of the line...we'll get back to you in a decade or so?"
Not right.
What's the answer? In an ideal world, it's simply what was done in 1954 by the Eisenhower administration: they went after the illegals in this country. The arrested them, deported them, arrested the business owners that hired them, etc...etc...and over 1,000,000 folks departed the USA. And the after affect? Illegal immigration was pretty much a non-issue for more than 20 years. The USA had made its point: come here legally and we welcome you as our new family members! Come here illegally and we will find you and send you back on a moments notice, with no warning.
Is that harsh? I suppose so. Does it bother me much? No. Because in the end, the person that complains the most about how "cruel" and "harsh" it is...is the person that broke the law, or the PAC/SIG that wants the law to change to afford unlimited immigration. Will this happen? In the "Politically Correct States of America" that answer is no. So in the end, we find ourselves in the fix we're currently in.
Okay...long post almost complete. I just wanted to sound off a bit on the subject, with no arguments with anyone because if you've read my posts here on the SA Forums you know first and foremost I'm an ALO and I pretty much live to help the "kids" obtain their goals of attending an SA (USAFA if I can help it ) and serving our nation as officers. But I'm also a "regular guy" who happens to live in Arizona...the land of all the controversy right now.
Okay...if you've gotten this far, I thank you for your interest.
Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
One comment that was made, and I'm cutting it from an entire thought so give me some leeway here...
"...hey all took an oath, but have done zilch, nothing about a comprehensive plan."
FIRST: I completely agree with the quote. But then I would ask what is meant by a "comprehensive plan?" I hear a similar term on the news, read it in the papers, hear it in discussions at work, etc., and that term is "comprehensive immigration reform."
And immediately you get two answers, depending upon whom you speak with. If the person is predominately a "republican type" you hear the words "amnesty" and "reward the law breakers." If they're predominately "democrat types" you hear the term "...a pathway to citizenship" and "legal right to be in the country and to work."
And there's the crux of the problem, IMHO. In 1986 with the illegal immigrant invasion in full swing and the people completely angered and the government torn between the law and the pull/push/strength of special interest groups (SIG), it was decided to offer a general "amnesty" to those in the country illegally. And it was done with comments by the gov't that this would NOT happen again, we were a nation of laws, we have immigration methods in place for people to come to this country legally, to begin the process of application for legal residency, etc. So amnesty will never happen again.
This opened the floodgates, again IMHO, because it told folks two key things:
a. The gov't can easily be swayed by massive protest combined with the "political correctness" of name calling
b. The gov't will NOT enforce those laws that enough money is used to fight, regardless of their legality.
So...what happened after 1986/7? Another even more massive invasion. Why? Well, the job markets were pretty good, the countries south of our border (where the vast majority of illegal immigrants come from) were generally in a 3d world condition or completely broken by drug cartels, corruption in government, etc...etc... Hey, I can't blame anyone from wanting that to change, but...change it there, not here...but I digress.
Now? We have a huge number of illegals here in this country. They'd taken jobs, stolen ID, etc...etc... Now, other than the "ID theft, use of facilities they're not entitled to, working in the country without the legal right to work and hold employment, and such" most have done nothing "violent or more criminal." However they are ALL breaking our laws. You know, those laws we're required to uphold? And most folks take the opinion, publicly, of "I won't see it."
However in those states, communities, etc., that are impacted heavily, this is a VERY sore subject! Folks have pretty much hit their limit on the "non action" as described by several posters in this forum. In other words: "Enough is enough!"
But what to do? Do we "legalize" all the illegals in our country and just say "pay a fine, any back taxes, ID yourself, and then we'll put you on a pathway to citizenship?"
Well, I'm okay with that, just as soon as you FIRST and FOREMOST allow EVERY overseas applicant for immigration to the USA that did it the LEGAL way, to come here and take their place first.
Are we ready for millions of folks to suddenly descend upon our country because of their hope for a better life? While that was a normal process in our nations' early years, it's not been that way for almost 100 years AND back then the process was a "legal" one. Go visit Ellis Island and see what immigrants had to do to gain legal entry. But I digress, again.
Back when the huge immigrant migration came to the USA we were in the midst of our industrial revolution and we had literally an unending, growing supply of jobs for all! That is not the case today; and certainly not after the economic woes of the past 3+ years. You can't just let in millions of people and then, with no "liveable" job market available, put them on welfare because there's no jobs for them. There's nothing good to be gained from that. Bottom line, we have laws, and methods that you must follow to come here legally. Do we simply tell the global population "Sorry if you wanted to do this the legal way, but those that broke our laws are already here so we're putting them to the head of the line...we'll get back to you in a decade or so?"
Not right.
What's the answer? In an ideal world, it's simply what was done in 1954 by the Eisenhower administration: they went after the illegals in this country. The arrested them, deported them, arrested the business owners that hired them, etc...etc...and over 1,000,000 folks departed the USA. And the after affect? Illegal immigration was pretty much a non-issue for more than 20 years. The USA had made its point: come here legally and we welcome you as our new family members! Come here illegally and we will find you and send you back on a moments notice, with no warning.
Is that harsh? I suppose so. Does it bother me much? No. Because in the end, the person that complains the most about how "cruel" and "harsh" it is...is the person that broke the law, or the PAC/SIG that wants the law to change to afford unlimited immigration. Will this happen? In the "Politically Correct States of America" that answer is no. So in the end, we find ourselves in the fix we're currently in.
Okay...long post almost complete. I just wanted to sound off a bit on the subject, with no arguments with anyone because if you've read my posts here on the SA Forums you know first and foremost I'm an ALO and I pretty much live to help the "kids" obtain their goals of attending an SA (USAFA if I can help it ) and serving our nation as officers. But I'm also a "regular guy" who happens to live in Arizona...the land of all the controversy right now.
Okay...if you've gotten this far, I thank you for your interest.
Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83