USAFA Cheating Scandal

Scoutpilot, I think we all conceded that favoritism is possible, but it does not seem likely that this is widespread in this instance, especially with first year cadets who don't have much credibility with the upperclassmen who typically staff these panels and boards.

OK. I must return to my life outside of this thread.
 
I'm beginning to understand the leniency now.

D1 athletes.

As if we couldn't have guessed before....

Sources tell the Indy that many of those caught up in the cheating incident are athletes. Because the academy will grant most of the cadets honor probation, which lasts six months and bars cadets from participation in Division 1 sports, the academy's fall sports teams could suffer. Which means the football team.
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http://www.csindy.com/IndyBlog/archives/2012/06/06/afa-announces-cheating-scandal
 
Gotta love our unbiased media though. They quote the air force official statement that says that the individuals acted "Independently"; that there was "No Collusion"; and that each cadet "Acted on his or her own".

Yet, the media headline reads: "AIR FORCE announces Cheating SCANDAL". Doesn't sound like the air force announced any "Scandal". Yes, in it's loosest interpretation a scandal can simply mean dishonor, damage to reputation, etc... But in common usage, the word scandal usually implies an organized and intentional effort. Sorry for rehashing, but; if I have a choice on whether to believe the media's position and the air force's position..... I'll take the air force's position. Same if this or any other similar topic was towards any other branch of the military.

I resign myself to the "FACT" that I/we don't know all the facts; that the academy will investigate the facts; and that whatever course they choose with these individuals, it will be fair and in the best interest of those involved and the cadet wing and air force as a whole.
 
falconfamily said:
. . .
Interestingly enough, it appears that it is about a 50-50 sentiment on this thread regarding this topic. So there is really no majority view on this.
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I think sentiments among parents, SA grads, and cadets are different. I think this is a case where data from sub-group matters.

As a grad my sentiment is that let the honor process takes its course and there is no BUT. I don't really care if everyone does it, your best friend got a dear John letter, it was instructors fault, and etc, the Honor board is supposed to consider everything. I remember being instructed as a new cadet that my three responses were "Yes, No, I do not know."
 
scoutpilot said:
It doesn't have to be. All it has to be is a situation where people in the squadron, especially the chain of command, feel a great friendship or great disdain for a certain individual, and that feeling will inevitably influence their decision-making.
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3.2.2.1.2. WHB members. Nine cadets in good standing are selected randomly from squadrons other than the respondent's squadron as follows:...
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Unless you are speaking of those initiating the process, I'm not sure what you are speaking about.
 
raimius said:
Unless you are speaking of those initiating the process, I'm not sure what you are speaking about.
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I was referring to this:

falconfamily said:
But you also need to consider how the honor system works - if you admit and take responsibility, your offense is considered at the Squadron level where they can recommend lesser sanctions (retain or disenroll) to the sanctions board who will impose remediation of some sort if you are voted to be retained by the squadron panel.
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Oy Vey!

Scoutpilot, yes there are possibilities that a cadet facing a sanctions panel might receive more favorable treatment if they are fortunate to be heard by friends, or they might face very unfavorable treatment if they are faced with people who are hostile towards them. The system is not perfect at any of the service academies. However the belief is that the cadets on these panels understand the importance of their decisions and will work hard to get it "Right", just as you did when you were a member of a panel. Not all panels will be well run, not all panels will get it right. But I suspect most of them will.

To disparage the panels decisions and to bring a notion (From a blogger who has been involved in some pretty hostile journalism with respect to USAFA) that these 70+ cadets who have been given a chance at remediation might be getting special treatment because they are athletes is really beneath us. I do think there are athletes in the mix (in fact I am certain of it), but I suspect that they are not the super majority as the blogger suggested.

With respect to favoritism, I have said this many times already, but I since this topic keeps reappearing, I will say it once again. Historically in cases of favoritism, it involved upperclassmen or favored athletes, since these cadets who have faced the panels and boards are primarily first year cadets, they simply don't have the power base to rely on.
 
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scoutpilot said:
It doesn't have to be. All it has to be is a situation where people in the squadron, especially the chain of command, feel a great friendship or great disdain for a certain individual, and that feeling will inevitably influence their decision-making.
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Isn't the USMA Honor System run by their cadets too?
 
scoutpilot said:
However, when you have a panel composed from the Squadron, there is almost NO chance that the panel on the people will not have an opinion one way or the other about the individual.
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ScoutPilot - I very nicely posted a copy of the USAFA Honor System Guide hoping that you would read it and stop making false arguments based not on fact. The USAFA Honor System does not rely on a panel of Cadets from the Accused's Squadron. Quite the opposite. NONE of them can be from the accused's squadron. Please stop using that in your argument. Please refer to the link that I previously posted with the Honor System Guide.
 
scoutpilot said:
Yes, and as I've pointed out before, there is no company (squadron) level vote on a violator's final punishment.
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Well, considering that a cadet can't "KICK OUT" another cadet from the academy, I would say that on the "Final Punishment" there is no squadron level vote for the air force academy either. Other than possibly the squadron's AOC, who is a commissioned officer average rank of major. But I guess that commissioned officer could be showing favortism too I suppose.

I'm sure that when the final decision has to be made, all the reviews prior and recommendations will be taken into consideration. I'm sure the individual's performance, academics, and record overall will be taken into consideration.

Considering that West Point has been doing this for approximately 140 years more than the air force, I'm sure we'll be able to reach army's level of perfection some day. Until then, I guess we'll just have to learn from our mistakes as we graduate commissioned officers will little or no sense of honor.
 
Christcorp said:
Well, considering that a cadet can't "KICK OUT" another cadet from the academy, I would say that on the "Final Punishment" there is no squadron level vote for the air force academy either. Other than possibly the squadron's AOC, who is a commissioned officer average rank of major. But I guess that commissioned officer could be showing favortism too I suppose.

I'm sure that when the final decision has to be made, all the reviews prior and recommendations will be taken into consideration. I'm sure the individual's performance, academics, and record overall will be taken into consideration.

Considering that West Point has been doing this for approximately 140 years more than the air force, I'm sure we'll be able to reach army's level of perfection some day. Until then, I guess we'll just have to learn from our mistakes as we graduate commissioned officers will little or no sense of honor.
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Did they cheat? Yes or no?

FYI, here is the USAFA Cadet Wing Honor Code's definition of cheating:

1.2.3. Cheat. Cheating is committing an act with the intent to receive undeserved credit or an unfair advantage. It also includes aiding or attempting to do the same.

1.2.3.1. Cheating can take many forms. Examples include, the use of crib notes, submitting someone else‟s work as your own, plagiarism, and receiving help but not documenting. The submission of undocumented work clearly implies it is the product of your own words or ideas, and you have not used this work for credit before. If you are unsure of a course policy or what type of collaboration is allowed, clarify the matter with your instructor. If doubt exists, explain the situation to your instructor. This way you will be exercising the responsibility and prudence expected of an honorable person and there will be no deception. Attempting to cheat is also an Honor Code violation even though you did not actually receive the undeserved credit you were trying to receive. Accomplices are liable to the same extent as the cheater.
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Pretty simple question to answer - did they cheat?

Pretty simple answer, too. Yes, they cheated.

From the current cadet who posted about the situation, giving exact data and facts,as he was also questioned about this situation and we can be pretty sure he knows what is going on - the cheaters knew exactly what they were doing, there was no mistake about it - they cheated. Intentionally cheated.

And you want to keep cheaters at the academy?

Really?
 
Luigi, the question is not so much if what happened with the cadets (as we currently understand it) fits some definition of cheating, the dispute is about how they are being administered to by the honor system at USAFA. As others and me have stated over and over again, it appears that each case is being considered on their own merits and there will be some who face expulsion and others who will not. Given the fact that we do not know the particulars, we do not know why some will be retained and others not. But we certainly should understand the fact that the cadets who man the panels and boards are trying to do the "right thing" and are being led by senior officers who are also trying to do the same.

Your innuendo about this being a scandal involving athletes by citing a blogger with a challenging history with USAFA is beneath you, and adds nothing to the discussion. This thing is still making it way through the honor system and for those who insist that people should be expelled, I think you will certainly see that happen over the next few weeks as the more difficult cases are passed through the Wing Boards.
 
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Luigi59 said:
From the current cadet who posted about the situation, giving exact data and facts,as he was also questioned about this situation and we can be pretty sure he knows what is going on - the cheaters knew exactly what they were doing, there was no mistake about it - they cheated.
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The cadet did not give exact data and facts about all cases. He only knows about what happened to him. We can't "be pretty sure he knows what is going on". At his level, he will NEVER know all of the details of his own inquiry much less those of others. The honor system is the same one that we as cadets helped to develop and live under. We should trust our USAFA leadership to use the honor code and their good judgment to make the right/tough decisions. We don't know the facts.
 
Scratcher said:
ScoutPilot - I very nicely posted a copy of the USAFA Honor System Guide hoping that you would read it and stop making false arguments based not on fact. The USAFA Honor System does not rely on a panel of Cadets from the Accused's Squadron. Quite the opposite. NONE of them can be from the accused's squadron. Please stop using that in your argument. Please refer to the link that I previously posted with the Honor System Guide.
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So you contend that falconfamily's initial statement about a cadet who admits to the violation having a review of his case at the squadron level is 100% false?
 
scoutpilot said:
So you contend that falconfamily's initial statement about a cadet who admits to the violation having a review of his case at the squadron level is 100% false?
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Scoutpilot, I may have stated that in a way that would lead you to think that. If so, I apologize.
 
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