Junior military college vs ROTC

Yes we know that even if he is in an engineering unit in guard that if he does get active duty that he will be branched based upon his OML. I'm not following how competing on the same OML is not having the same odds at active duty.

Yes we have looked at the info from NMMI as well as other forums. NMMI has a nice flow chart of the ECP route, Valley Forge has a nice power point presentation also.

LTC is to catch people up? Yes, those that did not take MSI or MSII classes and have now decided they want to join ROTC. I guess they are destined for non-active duty rolls also.
I get the maturity thing, I've seen just as many immature 22 yr olds as I have 20 yr olds. Sometimes hitting that 21 yr old mark just opens you up to more chances of getting into trouble while in college.

You asked why he chose this path. I answered that. He may decide the guard is what he wants, that will be a decision he makes before he graduates.

50% of 2nd LT slots are filled by engineering majors, there's a lot of people on these forums giving some bad advice then, as well as a lot of traditional ROTC Battalions that say "your major doesn't matter to the army."

I understand your not a fan of ECP, I can respect that. But I don't think it is fair to say that the program isn't worth it and to basically say MJC's are not worth it or that anyone that does it is short changing themselves if they want active duty. That's as unfair as saying anyone that comes out of the military academies will be great leaders. It is up to the individuals. Maybe it is tougher if you're not mature, most things in life are.

In DS's case, like i said previously, part of the reasoning was financial. If it wasn't for choosing this MJC so his entire education is paid for, he would have had to take out student loans. He did not want that. I can respect that also. Instead of going to college and being at LTC right now he would probably be at boot camp and plotting his course to become an officer from that direction, which is perfectly fine for some people.

QA1517 said:

50% of 2nd LT slots are filled by engineering majors, there's a lot of people on these forums giving some bad advice then, as well as a lot of traditional ROTC Battalions that say "your major doesn't matter to the army.".

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No they aren't giving wrong advice you are just blending two questions for one answer.

For scholarship allocation (beside nursing) major doesn't matter.

For BRANCHING in some instances it does. In one case STEM/Engineering majors get an extra .5/1 OML points respectively. The branches of Engineer Corps and Signal Corps also have set aside essentially guaranteed allocations (50%) for certain majors which include all engineering/construction management and networking, computer science, information systems etc. This was created to supplemement the major difficulty and discrepancy in GPA for competitiveness.

This isn't new info and has been in place since I got my accessions brief at LDAC back in 2011. You can google "Purdue army oml accessions"
and see the entire slidedeck.

Good luck with ECP, hope everything works out as you have planned.

Thanks.

Good to know on the engineering slots as Construction Management is his planned major.

A couple things.

Aglahad is correct, The Army holds out 50% of the Engineering Branch for cadets with certain Engineering degrees, Signal Corps also holds some branch slots for certain Tech Majors.

The issue of LTC catching cadets up, I think Aglahad's point is that most cadets that attend LTC have already completed their first two years of college. Once these cadets finish LTC they join the traditional ROTC Battalion at the 4 year college.

ECP's are not included in the National Branching that takes place after the cadets Junior year. If you look at the Branching slides you won't find a section for ECP's, only SMC's. ECP's go through a different process to apply for AD and their branch, they are not rolled into the graduating ROTC class.

OCS is very similar, they commission to fill the gaps left be West Point and ROTC. Not all branches are available to OCS grads, only those that need to be filled. For a while OCS had a very low acceptance rate, with the draw down it's going to get even lower.

I'm sure there are AD ECP LT's, I haven't met any but I'm sure they are out there.

With more and more Traditional ROTC grads being forced Reserves/NG, it is going to get tougher for OCS and ECP's to receive AD.

Aglahad is right, the brochures do not always tell the whole story, and that story changes all the time.

I've read your posts before, it sounds like your son has made some great choices regarding school and how to pay for school. You have done a lot of research and your son made the best decision for him, that's what counts.

The only advice I would give is to try and be at the top of the class, in everything. This will give him a better opportunity to get what he wants as the competition gets tighter.

Best of luck to your son, is he at LTC now?

QA1517 said:

Thanks.

Good to know on the engineering slots as Construction Management is his planned major.

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Unfortunatly I don't believe that is one of the Majors that is held out for the Engineering branch.

Jcleppe said:

Unfortunatly I don't believe that is one of the Majors that is held out for the Engineering branch.

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I was told here it was for branching purposes but maybe not OML points? I'm not 100% sure so I will defer to you on that one.

I totally agree, being at the top always puts you in a better position. That should be the goal of everyone. Thus the decision to go to a smaller school. He felt he could benefit from the smaller class sizes and more one on one if he needed it to maintain a higher GPA. Also a smaller battalion might give him more opportunities.

"The issue of LTC catching cadets up, I think Aglahad's point is that most cadets that attend LTC have already completed their first two years of college. Once these cadets finish LTC they join the traditional ROTC Battalion at the 4 year college."

ECP cadets return to their battalions and have the leadership roles that traditional MSIII's and IV's do.

I did find someplace a slide from LDAC that showed ECP's and their branching, I think it was a link that someone posted here but can't say positively and can't quote the numbers.

DS is at LTC. He will graduate the 27th. We have talked to him a few times.
He said he is learning a lot and having fun doing it. He excelled at Land Nav. He had the 14th best time out of approx 200 finding all the points.
His squad on the waterborne operations set a LTC record for the zodiac course. He has received E's so far on all of leadership roles. He was squad leader on one exercise to go out and find IED's and do the proper procedure of reporting and everything that goes with it. He was told by his instructors that so far this summer they were the best squad he had at doing that.

He has also been chosen to be company commander for there final task which is the 6 mile ruck march.

When he left for LTC he said he didn't just want to pass he wanted to be better than others.

I am proud of him in the fact that he has chosen his career path and whether he ends up in Guard or AD, his goal is to be the best officer he can.

Sounds like he's doing great.

+1 to Jcleppe. Your son sounds like an excellent leader who knows how to execute.

Thank You both,

Not to beat a dead dog but this is directly from the ROO at his school in his words and this is the way we understood it:

If he elects to compete for active duty he'll compete against traditional ROTC Cadets nationwide for his branch, duty station, and component (active, guard, reserve).

He is not at a disadvantage coming from a Military Junior College. There is no such thing as ECP active duty slots. Our Lieutenants are not competing for "ECP" active duty slots, they're competing for active duty slots like everyone else.

The Army tells Cadet Command how many active duty, guard, and reserve officers they need every year. Cadets then compete for the active duty slots, or choose to go into the guard or reserve. This is where a Cadet's Order of Merit List score and branch choice come into play. If a Cadet chooses a branch the Army needs more of, it's more likely he'll get his branch (example: Active Duty has 10 active duty pilot slots and 20 applicants. 10 of those people will not become active duty pilots and may get their second job choice on active duty).

Cadet is 100% in control of his career at this point. His academics, physical fitness, ROTC performance, and extra-curricular activities in college will all help him on the order of merit list. If active duty is what he wants I suggest the following:

1. GPA of 3.0 or higher
2. 270 or higher on the Army Physical Fitness Test (he can work up to this)
3. Volunteer for summer training (Airborne, Air Assault, CULP, CTLT)
4. Ranger Challenge, Buddy Ranger Challenge while at MJC
5. Fraternity or inter mural sports after he leaves MJC

The Army will ask him to fill out a sheet similar to what he filled out for me during the scholarship application packet. They'll want to know everything he did in college and based on that he'll be assigned Order of Merit List points. The more points, the better chance he has of getting active duty.