USNA vs Ivy League School NROTC

do naval academy. when you're trying to balance out schoolwork and waking up at 5am in the morning, naval academy makes much more sense. for one professors at regular university couldn't give a rat's ass about your rotc commitments. as a math and premed major, my next semester includes 2 4 hours labs a week for orgo and physics as well as at least 3 hours every week dedicated just to MS class as well as squad meetings for ROTC labs. Neither my professor or sergeant could care about the other lab which makes scheduling for a lack of a better word a complete ***** especially since pick times for schedules are random.
Although I've never attended a single academy, from what I've heard the training is summer heavy and academic year light. You might still have some commitments but from what I've read professors at academies actually have the mindset of military first, civilian academics second (obviously since of priorities of cadets). That means that often times 4 hours labs may be truncated to 2 hour labs which are a real help. You also realize that coming out of the Naval Academy almost guarantees you a spot in any Ivy League school for grad school (as long as you work for it of course).

tl;dr go to the naval academy.
 
Excellent points above, all of which point back to the original question: what do you want for yourself? DS faced similar decision: 4 yr NROTC scholarship to Harvard or USNA. He considered all the variables mentioned above (and probably more), but in the end it came down to one thing in particular: who he wanted to be surrounded by on a day-in day-out basis. Let's call a spade a spade: Ivy league schools are largely populated an exclusive band of the population (5 Ivies have more students from the top 1% income bracket than from the entire bottom 60%. Source. ) By definition, USNA (and other academies) draw students from every congressional district, so the student body is more representative. Add in the unique motivation, vision, and focus of people who pursue the path of a service academy, DS (currently a 2020 plebe) came to a pretty quick decision as to where he saw himself. And it appears to have been the right one.
 
brewer90 said:
Excellent points above, all of which point back to the original question: what do you want for yourself? DS faced similar decision: 4 yr NROTC scholarship to Harvard or USNA. He considered all the variables mentioned above (and probably more), but in the end it came down to one thing in particular: who he wanted to be surrounded by on a day-in day-out basis. Let's call a spade a spade: Ivy league schools are largely populated an exclusive band of the population (5 Ivies have more students from the top 1% income bracket than from the entire bottom 60%. Source. ) By definition, USNA (and other academies) draw students from every congressional district, so the student body is more representative. Add in the unique motivation, vision, and focus of people who pursue the path of a service academy, DS (currently a 2020 plebe) came to a pretty quick decision as to where he saw himself. And it appears to have been the right one.
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Amen! I'm thrilled my DS made the choice he did all on his own. 99 days to I-Day for our 2021 Plebe.
 
All said, I agree with all the posts above. Think the overall edge goes to USNA but with caveat that it needs to be what you want. I think the hardest part is actually figuring that out with the bigger picture of what you want to do in the long term in mind. USNA does have more overall diversity but I wouldn't discount all the great things of the Ivy's. They are great schools without a doubt.

My other friends who are USNA grads and are still active duty as physicians said that after USNA, all post-graduate work was a breeze including med school. They both said unequivocally that USNA sets you up with the right mindset and attitude to tackle most of what life and graduate education can throw at you. Choose what fits your goals.

Can't believe I-day less than 100 days away! Already set up reservations for PPW! ;-)
 
One thing to find out about Ivy League schools is who teaches the classes. At USNA, all classes are taught by full professors or military officers (about 50/50). Most college classes, especially for underclassmen, are taught by TAs. (2 relatives attended Ivies and rarely saw a prof until their senior year). The word TA doesn't exist at USNA.

Extra instruction is provided by the profs, not their TAs.
 
I was actually advised by someone who is both an SA grad and a non-SA professor regarded as a foremost expert in their field that she would recommend DD go to the Ivy. Said that, if docs is on education rather than career of military service, the breadth and depth of instruction is superior (at least for engineering, in this specific instance), than at SA, and that the career military folks serving as faculty can be a net loss, as they may not have the breadth of experience/expertise than their civilian counterparts.

As someone said above, I’m just the messenger… Ultimately, as many others have noted, I think it really depends on what you’re looking for in college 🤷‍♂️
 
jbm2m said:
I was actually advised by someone who is both an SA grad and a non-SA professor regarded as a foremost expert in their field that she would recommend DD go to the Ivy. Said that, if docs is on education rather than career of military service, the breadth and depth of instruction is superior (at least for engineering, in this specific instance), than at SA, and that the career military folks serving as faculty can be a net loss, as they may not have the breadth of experience/expertise than their civilian counterparts.

As someone said above, I’m just the messenger… Ultimately, as many others have noted, I think it really depends on what you’re looking for in college 🤷‍♂️
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Note: many folks including/especially grads are not aware that the Navy has changed how they assign officers to teach at USNA. In most of the academic departments, the officers who are teaching there are "Permanent Military Professors" which is an Officer Community that they transfer into after being SWOs, Aviators, etc. They go to grad school for a Phd and then teach for the remainder of their career. This is decidedly different from when I was a mid and I believe different from USMA as well.
 
OldRetSWO said:
Note: many folks including/especially grads are not aware that the Navy has changed how they assign officers to teach at USNA. In most of the academic departments, the officers who are teaching there are "Permanent Military Professors" which is an Officer Community that they transfer into after being SWOs, Aviators, etc. They go to grad school for a Phd and then teach for the remainder of their career. This is decidedly different from when I was a mid and I believe different from USMA as well.
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Fair enough. The advice given to me was specifically re: USAFA, but was told it was more or less universally true. Thanks for the update!
 
jbm2m said:
Fair enough. The advice given to me was specifically re: USAFA, but was told it was more or less universally true. Thanks for the update!
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My sons have been advised the same as your daughter by various folks over the years. But this discussion has been an intensely debated one over the years. I think, for the most part, it comes down to your gut feeling about where you fit. . . and major. For my older son the major wasn't an issue, but my younger son it is. No academy offers his intended major, and that's been a sticking point. No doubt Ivy ROTC and academy kids will get an amazing education.
 
jbm2m said:
Fair enough. The advice given to me was specifically re: USAFA, but was told it was more or less universally true. Thanks for the update!
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USNA has had a long history of civilians being approx 50% of the faculty when USMA/USAFA were mostly military and few civilians.
 
Holden100 said:
My sons have been advised the same as your daughter by various folks over the years. But this discussion has been an intensely debated one over the years. I think, for the most part, it comes down to your gut feeling about where you fit. . . and major. For my older son the major wasn't an issue, but my younger son it is. No academy offers his intended major, and that's been a sticking point. No doubt Ivy ROTC and academy kids will get an amazing education.
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DD is interested in engineering. She thinks mechanical, but I could see her falling in love with systems engineering/operations research. All the academies have both… her Ivy is t10 in both of those programs. Incredibly fortunate that, on paper, she has no bad choices at this point!
 
jbm2m said:
DD is interested in engineering. She thinks mechanical, but I could see her falling in love with systems engineering/operations research. All the academies have both… her Ivy is t10 in both of those programs. Incredibly fortunate that, on paper, she has no bad choices at this point!
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Sounds like she just needs to decide where her heart is leading her! Good luck to her!
 
jbm2m said:
DD is interested in engineering. She thinks mechanical, but I could see her falling in love with systems engineering/operations research. All the academies have both… her Ivy is t10 in both of those programs. Incredibly fortunate that, on paper, she has no bad choices at this point!
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If it helps, this article from today’s Wall street Journal may help provide some insight - you might need to be a subscriber, but it is a nice profile of a 2014 USNA engineering grad as well as current salary rankings for Tech, Finance and Consulting. USNA represents pretty well here and has a nice photo of USNA
The Top Colleges for High-Paying Careers in Finance, Tech and Consulting
https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/caree...ting-d1c22601?reflink=integratedwebview_share
 
In terms of the quality of the engineering studies, I can't speak for an Ivy, but dang DS has had some incredible instruction and opportunity for lab time, wind tunnel time, and building projects and experiments at USNA. What his group is building for their senior project is crazy, as was the budget.
And that big wind tunnel? Shakes the whole building. Impressive stuff, honestly.
 
Time for another one of my Ivy League sales pitches:

The Ivies can have great engineering programs too, depending on the school and discipline. Of course, MIT beats them out, but MIT beats pretty much everyone out when it comes to engineering. Most Ivies offer ABET-accredited degrees too. They have cool labs as well. I was not an engineering major, but my friends who were really enjoyed their programs.

Re: Profs and TAs
Seems like a misconception I've seen several times on this website, so I guess I'll clear it up some. The professors at the Ivies are amazing. They also actually enjoy teaching undergrads and genuinely look forward to it. I found mine to be very accessible as well, and I took many seminars (even during my first year) where it was just 10-20 undergrad students with 1 professor (and maybe a TA to help out, but that was a good thing!). I found the TAs to be very helpful too. Remember, the large majority of TAs at these schools are trying to become professors themselves and continue teaching students, so they actually really care about your learning. I still chat with some of my professors and TAs to this day every once in a while.

ROTC at the Ivies:
Your experience is going to depend on the school and unit of course. I think on campus vs cross-town also makes a big difference here too. Mine was on-campus, a smaller unit too, and I really enjoyed it. My chosen school and unit were the perfect fit for me.

At the end of the day, you should choose where your heart says to go. If it's set on the Ivy, nothing wrong with turning down a USNA appointment. And same for vice versa. Choose the best fit for you, that's where you'll perform the best. Just don't play the "what if I had chosen the other one" game after you make your decision

@jbm2m If you want to talk more about specifics and schools with the Ivies, feel free to PM me.
 
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