rjb
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2014
- Messages
- 508
If this turns out to be true, very sad, indeed. On the flip side of the coin, what type of drug testing was being done? There are known problems with some of the test kits for false positives, especially if you are using any vitamin supplements, etc which may have similar substances that could test positive in a 'pee-cup' test. There are also some types of tea that will show positive, as well.
I'll answer from my own experience in the air force; I'm not a physician and I'm not a lawyer. But I did sit on over a dozen court martials; many for drug offenses.If this turns out to be true, very sad, indeed. On the flip side of the coin, what type of drug testing was being done? There are known problems with some of the test kits for false positives, especially if you are using any vitamin supplements, etc which may have similar substances that could test positive in a 'pee-cup' test. There are also some types of tea that will show positive, as well.
However, if it is true, and there is this spike in substance abuse among elite service members- then you'd think the Navy should take pause and look at what issues are contributing to it. While I don't condone any drug usage, I do understand the nature of 'self medicating' by some to compensate for untreated (and 'in denial') mental health issues.
Thank you for the detailed information. As I said earlier, if true for such a large number from an elite branch, maybe this is where someone should be looking into the 'whys' of it for that group. It's sad on all ends for those service members who had to go above and beyond to achieve that status and throw it away.I'll answer from my own experience in the air force; I'm not a physician and I'm not a lawyer. But I did sit on over a dozen court martials; many for drug offenses.If this turns out to be true, very sad, indeed. On the flip side of the coin, what type of drug testing was being done? There are known problems with some of the test kits for false positives, especially if you are using any vitamin supplements, etc which may have similar substances that could test positive in a 'pee-cup' test. There are also some types of tea that will show positive, as well.
However, if it is true, and there is this spike in substance abuse among elite service members- then you'd think the Navy should take pause and look at what issues are contributing to it. While I don't condone any drug usage, I do understand the nature of 'self medicating' by some to compensate for untreated (and 'in denial') mental health issues.
The military "random drug test" is done by lottery. If you're called, you go to the clinic or wherever they are doing the draw, and you check in, they verify who you are, there's some paperwork, then you're handed a cup and sent to the restroom. There will be a military member there to observe you...yes, watch the entire process. They do this to ensure its you, not a stored sample, etc. That person will sign a tag stipulating they observed you. Then you take the cup back and deliver it. It is then checked and sealed with the flimsiest tape I've ever seen; usually in an "X" pattern. Then a label with your ID information is put on it. You verify that the tape seals are intact, sign the form, and that's it.
All the samples will be collected and packaged very securely by witnesses; they use the "two person" concept: two people must always be in possession of the samples and they sign a document every step of the way. It'll be shipped to the air force lab doing the testing. The lab will receive the package; two people, they'll take the package into a room and open it. They must both verify that there are exactly the same number of bottles in the box as the paperwork says were shipped. IF there's a discrepancy, the entire package is destroyed. They then, one at a time, examine each container, checking the seals, documentation, etc. If the seals are broken, or the paperwork has a discrepancy, ALL the samples in the box, not just this one, are destroyed. IF all the samples are good, then they go to the testing area.
The first test is basically the dip stick test. Dip the sample; if the stick comes up with a "potential positive" then it's set aside for further testing. If it comes up negative, that's it; it's destroyed and you're clear. If it came up possible, then it goes to the test that during a court martial, the PhD explaining it will put you to sleep: GCMS or the gas chromatography-mass spectrometry. Here's we're going to do the electron microscope type thing. The sample will be tested using this beast and this is where, if you're guilty, they're going to prove it. This thing will look at the atomic level of metabolites in your body. I don't remember all the numbers so forgive me but if memory serves, the AF had a level to show violation of something like 150ng/ml for cocaine and about 50ng/ml for THC (marijuana). The first test could say "POSITIVE! YOU'VE GOT THIS PERSON!!!" BUT...if the GCMS came back with 49.99999ng/ml of THC, that sample was destroyed and there was no finding since it didn't meet the 50ng/ml level. Yes, really; they would know the person had done the drugs but...they didn't reach the "hang'em" level.
Many folks liked to try to fight the GCMS results claiming "I eat a lot of poppy seed bagels, etc...etc..." but, alas, the metabolite of THC only forms in the tissues if you've ingested the illegal item. In my career I never saw or heard of a "false positive" with the GCMS, but I did with the preliminary testing. Again though, I'm not the expert so I could have missed it.
Bottom line: if these guys were tested like I remember, the odds are VERY high that they're guilty.
Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
On a happier note, 35 SEALs will graduate from USNA today.
You're probably right. I was listening to a news story while doing something else. Thirty five does seem like a large number of SEALs to be in one class. ThanksOn a happier note, 35 SEALs will graduate from USNA today.
I think you mean that 35 newly-minted Ensigns will report as candidates for BUDS, don't you?
I imagine it is being looked at closely.maybe this is where someone should be looking into the 'whys' of it for that group
I thought I heard the news guy say 35 SEALs were graduating today but I should have heard 35 graduates were selected to attend BUD/S. I should leave this alone as I have stuff to do but, if only 20 enlisted graduate BUDs and if 33 or so Annapolis grads pass, at some point, there will be nobody for the officers to lead. New gains are the life blood of the organization. I'm not a math major so my arithmetic is probably wrong.That is true on attrition rates for overall rates. The attrition rate of USNA grads is much much lower than that. It is higher than it was 15+ years ago, but that is because they commission double the amount that attend BUDS than they did years ago. The number used to be around 15-16 a year who were selected and the norm for a very long time was for 0-2 grads to not make it. USNA has the largest group officers selected for training and also the highest success rates at BUDS.
I now know that. Based on two previous posts, enlisted have a 94 percent washout rate and about 33/35 Academy grads will graduate BUDS according to statistics. The 35 going to BUDS over 3-4 classes makes sense but the last trident wearer from USNA is from 2003 is different from the numbers posted above.35 SEALs did not graduate. 35 USNA grads from the class of 2018 were selected as Spec Ware officers and will attend BUDS. They won’t all go at the same time, but probably broken up over 3-4 classes. The last trident wearing SEAL to graduate from USNA was in 2003.
The last trident wearing SEAL to graduate from USNA was in 2003.
How can this be true? I know an 05 SEAL and I'm sure there are others since then.
Prior enlisted SEALs are entitled to wear all ribbons and warfare devices earned, including silver SEAL warfare pin, on midshipmen uniforms.