APFT Fail

Cadet257 said:
DS failed his APFT for the first time after taking many before (he is an MS3). He had a grader who said he was not doing the sit-ups correctly, which he has never been told before and only counted around 45 of them. He usually scores between 62-67 sit ups and maxes the push ups and run. Not making excuses at all, but now he is very stressed and upset because the worst score he had prior to this was a 270. He is contracted and is worried about his scholarship. He will be retaking in a week, but needs to be able to overcome this mentally in order to pass. Any advice?
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Tell him failing is a part of life and make sure he works on sit-ups. It is not the end of the world if he fails this pt test. On the other hand, I disagree with Clarkson ROTC’s comment, sometimes there are graders who are super super strict on form. This happened to me freshmen year in rotc when I was doing sit-ups and I only got 54 because my grader said my back and the back of my head had to touch the ground, which is false because other cadre told me you just needed to hit the shoulder blades. Make your son does his best and don’t stress, there are other challenges ahead of him that will be more stressful.
 
Are everybody else's cadets also practicing for the new Army test?

Mine showed me the weird new push-ups over Thanksgiving break.
 
Pickering2019 said:
This is a good question should we practice for old test or the new one.
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The new Army Combat Fitness Test (ACFT) will be phased in by late 2020* and requires special equipment. Accordingly, you should cross that bridge when you get there. For now, the APFT (2-2-2) will be what determines if you get your scholarship money released or not. I would recommend that incoming Army ROTC candidates stay focused on that.

* Source: Army Times:
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...my-pt-test-is-on-its-way-this-is-not-a-drill/
 
Similarly, my DS is a contracted MS-3 and just failed the push-up component of a surprise AFPT this morning my 6 push ups. He normally maxes out all components, but the grader did not count 25 pushups. He was told that he could lose his stipend and possibly his scholarship due to this. Is it possible to lose your stipend and even your scholarship after failing one PFT?
 
rehula said:
Similarly, my DS is a contracted MS-3 and just failed the push-up component of a surprise AFPT this morning my 6 push ups. He normally maxes out all components, but the grader did not count 25 pushups. He was told that he could lose his stipend and possibly his scholarship due to this. Is it possible to lose your stipend and even your scholarship after failing one PFT?
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First question would be, Who told your son he could lose his stipend and scholarship? Was it a cadet or a cadre member?

A surprise APFT is usually not a recorded APFT and they don't result in loss of a scholarship. Your son would need to pass the a final APFT before the end of the semester, the only way he could possibly lose his scholarship would be if he does not pass a recorded APFT before the end of the semester. If your son passed an APFT at the start of the semester then his scholarship was activated again for that semester, not passing a surprise or diagnostic APFT may require him to attend remedial PT but not cause hime to lose his scholarship on the spot.

If it was a cadet saying this then he should not be concerned until he hears it from the Cadre, even then it is probably a warning of what could happen in the future if he does not pass an APFT before the end of the semester.
 
It was a cadre member (MSGT), the Lt Col is not there this week and won't return until next week. They had a couple diagnostic PFTs last semester with the record PFT in the Nov timeframe. That's why he was so suprised when it was announced as a "record" PFT without advance notice this morning.
 
A 17-21 year-old participating in ROTC wasn't able to do 42 correct push-ups? May be other reasons the scholarship was threatened?
 
cptenca said:
A 17-21 year-old participating in ROTC wasn't able to do 42 correct push-ups? May be other reasons the scholarship was threatened?
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I wouldn’t say that... if no one had corrected him beforehand it could have really thrown his ‘game’ off during a test. Taking my CFA for USNA I was told to change the way I did my pullups ever so slightly and I usually did 5-6 but only managed one for my test. Does it mean I can’t do pullups? I hope not, my coach loves making us so pullups and that would break his heart. Don’t jump to conclusions that offer no help to her!
 
cptenca said:
A 17-21 year-old participating in ROTC wasn't able to do 42 correct push-ups? May be other reasons the scholarship was threatened?
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Depends on who's counting. years ago my older son went to LDAC, his first APFT was a 230, graded by a new 2LT, barely counted enough PU's to pass. The second APFT was a 330, graded by a MSGT. Son had always been above 300 for the first 3 years of ROTC. Sometimes it comes down to the grader and what kind of mood they're in that morning.
 
I understand the nuances of AFPTs under pressure... especially at Army schools where they are used as a selection criteria. The point I was making, although apparently not clearly, is that we are only hearing one side of a story. Was there something else that contributed to the way the push-ups were counted?
 
If your child wants a career in the military, this is one of many things that won’t go their way. It may even appear that they are getting “screwed over” but that’s the life they’ve chosen. Just wait til they’re an O-5 or O-6 and they don’t get the nod for the next higher rank because their rater preferred another person. It’s part of the career choice. The best they can do is learn from it and do better next time. Don’t harbor resentment and move on!

I’m not pointing the finger but this is one thing I deal with daily in my job. We have a less resilient military force. Kids don’t know how to face adversity. I’ve gotten phone calls from parents of Sailors that are 20-25 years old on the smallest of issues. I respectfully tell them, “you need to let your child grow up and stare Life in the eyes”.

Tell your child to work hard, control what they can control, and move on. This is just a speed bump. The fact that you are posting here means that you care and you probably did an amazing job raising them. Now, it’s time to release them, let them face the adversities, and allow them to overcome.
 
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I can tell from some of the responses that my question was a bit off, my DS completely understands that he needs to do better on the next test and will do so since he has always maxed out the test.

My question was really pointed at whether a contracted cadet can lose their scholarship after failing one PFT this early in the semester and his first failure? As I mentioned early, until this APFT, they had always been given advanced notice of a record PFT.
 
rehula said:
My question was really pointed at whether a contracted cadet can lose their scholarship after failing one PFT this early in the semester and his first failure? As I mentioned early, until this APFT, they had always been given advanced notice of a record PFT.
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No he shouldn't have an issue and since the semester is not even half way through, there should be no reason he would lose his scholarship, he will have another chance to pass the APFT. The best he can do is look past this, keep hitting the gym and working on his push ups so he makes sure to pass the next test. He is not the first and won't be the last cadet to miss the mark during a semester.
 
rehula said:
I can tell from some of the responses that my question was a bit off, my DS completely understands that he needs to do better on the next test and will do so since he has always maxed out the test.

My question was really pointed at whether a contracted cadet can lose their scholarship after failing one PFT this early in the semester and his first failure? As I mentioned early, until this APFT, they had always been given advanced notice of a record PFT.
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I doubt he will lose his scholarship based on this alone. He like will be given a re-test at some point.
 
rehula said:
Similarly, my DS is a contracted MS-3 and just failed the push-up component of a surprise AFPT this morning my 6 push ups. He normally maxes out all components, but the grader did not count 25 pushups. He was told that he could lose his stipend and possibly his scholarship due to this. Is it possible to lose your stipend and even your scholarship after failing one PFT?
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Short answer is no you won't lose it for one APFT. However, it needs to be a gut check. An officer shouldn't need to be told there is an APFT coming to be able to knock it out of the park. Similarly, if you do the form right 42 times you will not fail the APFT. If you don't know who the grader is and you don't have it announced in advance just focus on form and don't assume you are going to ace it.
 
Jcleppe said:
cptenca said:
A 17-21 year-old participating in ROTC wasn't able to do 42 correct push-ups? May be other reasons the scholarship was threatened?
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Depends on who's counting. years ago my older son went to LDAC, his first APFT was a 230, graded by a new 2LT, barely counted enough PU's to pass. The second APFT was a 330, graded by a MSGT. Son had always been above 300 for the first 3 years of ROTC. Sometimes it comes down to the grader and what kind of mood they're in that morning.
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These anecdotes always bother me. No reason a 2LT isn't grading to standard and after 21 years of doing this I am willing to bet a 50-50 shot that the 2LT was holding the standard. I have seen as many MSGs fudge about maintaining the standard as I have 2LTs so lets not make this you have to be a rank or have X years to accomplish this skill level one task. And I heard the horror stories about Advanced Camp, Airborne, AIr Assault and RTB but my experience was if you focused on form you did just fine and that started by focusing on form when you practiced at your home unit/university. Finally, no reason why you should vary by 100 points on the test. The run has no graded discrepancy, the sit ups are pretty binary when it comes to judgement as well so you really shouldn't jump 100 points unless it is all push ups.
 
emwvmi01 said:
No reason a 2LT isn't grading to standard and after 21 years of doing this I am willing to bet a 50-50 shot that the 2LT was holding the standard.
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I didn't mean to make this anecdote a blanket statement of all graders, but in the case of the LDAC graders it was more then an anecdote. The 2LT's that worked LDAC were there between graduation and their BOLC dates, the way the APFT had been graded was becoming an issue. That year the NCO's at LDAC complaints finally reached the right command level, They removed grading APFT's from the 2LT's responsibilities, they were now graded by NCOs. The scores went up, a lot for the remaining year and those after. The culture had become one of "It happened to me so I'm going to do it to them"

You're correct, jumping 100 points is unusual and that was the point, the graders were counting just enough to pass the PU and SU's and your right, they had no control over the run.

I agree with you that for the most part the grading is done to standard by most graders, that's not always the case in ROTC when upper class cadets do the grading, it can sometimes be all over the place, not always but sometime.
 
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