I'm sure there is a logical reason 360+ Mids didn't get their flights today....

D

DSANN

Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2020
Messages
220
Lot's of theories over there in the social media world - but I think the best place to ask and the most accurate military response is here....
380 Mids (give or take a few) were heading to PROTRIMID in San Diego today. Said Mids were informed yesterday that only 20 seats were booked for today and throughout the week they would eventually get out there. How does that happen? The remaining 360 Mids now will miss their first week of PROTRIMID. So I guess I am asking - typically - what is the procedure to book flights? Doesn't the Navy have big planes to bring a whole group somewhere? Commercial flights were the last thing I thought the military would rely on for transporting large number of Mids. Thanks everyone for your responses!
 
DSANN said:
Lot's of theories over there in the social media world - but I think the best place to ask and the most accurate military response is here....
380 Mids (give or take a few) were heading to PROTRIMID in San Diego today. Said Mids were informed yesterday that only 20 seats were booked for today and throughout the week they would eventually get out there. How does that happen? The remaining 360 Mids now will miss their first week of PROTRIMID. So I guess I am asking - typically - what is the procedure to book flights? Doesn't the Navy have big planes to bring a whole group somewhere? Commercial flights were the last thing I thought the military would rely on for transporting large number of Mids. Thanks everyone for your responses!
Click to expand...
DS said they were told too many civilians took the seats.
My dad guess is they hoped to save a ton of money due to covid related empty seats. And like shorting a stock, they got caught when seats filled up faster than expected with eased restrictions.
 
DSANN said:
Lot's of theories over there in the social media world - but I think the best place to ask and the most accurate military response is here....
380 Mids (give or take a few) were heading to PROTRIMID in San Diego today. Said Mids were informed yesterday that only 20 seats were booked for today and throughout the week they would eventually get out there. How does that happen? The remaining 360 Mids now will miss their first week of PROTRIMID. So I guess I am asking - typically - what is the procedure to book flights? Doesn't the Navy have big planes to bring a whole group somewhere? Commercial flights were the last thing I thought the military would rely on for transporting large number of Mids. Thanks everyone for your responses!
Click to expand...
Military people, for routine administrative things they have to travel to, are booked on major carriers through SATO, the Govt scheduled airlines ticket office, which has govt contracts for the fares, with the low bidders. This is why military folks end up in the middle seats in economy, or wherever the airline jams them in. The airlines are going to fill the higher revenue seats first.

I have been reading the major airlines are struggling with ramping back up to pre-pandemic schedules, complicated by aircrew labor shortages. American has had to cancel hundreds of flights, cascading into passengers into re-booking, seat shortages, more unexpectedly canceled flights.
 
Do they still military based passenger planes?
I would have thought that many folks would tip the economics toward using one.
 
@justme I agree - from an economics standpoint a charted flight seems appropriate. But my eyes have opened just a bit wider this year on the shear lack of economics that I have seen/heard.
 
justme said:
Do they still military based passenger planes?
I would have thought that many folks would tip the economics toward using one.
Click to expand...

Except those flights are prioritized for people and cargo deploying in support of actual operations and missions, not training opportunities. Passengers for those flights are assigned a certain priority and, like it or not, mids fall low on the priority scale for those types of flights. That’s one of the reasons why commercial flights are more economical. Perhaps the the Navy could justify the use of those flights as “training flights” for the pilots and crew, but that’s still quite an ask.

Second, many bases are still not allowing for space available flights, which is where you have flights scheduled to a specific area and any room leftover is designated for passengers. That is also based on the traveler’s priority, which can include PCS, dependent travel, leave, and training. This is due to ongoing COVID restrictions, as even flight missions run for deployments are still tightly controlled. Some even still require a ROM. So, while it many not be the most economical option, commercial flights are very likely the most efficient and effective option.

I’m sure it’s a disappointment, but they will get there, which is more than can be said for those who were scheduled to go last year. The best thing the mids can do is continue to be flexible, make the best of the time they have before they get there, and stay off social media about it. I’m sure there are some very hardworking individuals who did their best to arrange their travel the first time and are now working overtime to get it all rescheduled. Nothing is as simple as it seems, logistics and planning is a complicated process guided by significant regulations, even for mid training.
 
Commercial carriers cancel flights. Mids transiting from one training to another get caught in the middle. Duty officers do the best they can to reschedule rebook and adapt to changing situations. Semper Gumby.
 
trackandfield08 said:
Except those flights are prioritized for people and cargo deploying in support of actual operations and missions, not training opportunities. Passengers for those flights are assigned a certain priority and, like it or not, mids fall low on the priority scale for those types of flights. That’s one of the reasons why commercial flights are more economical. Perhaps the the Navy could justify the use of those flights as “training flights” for the pilots and crew, but that’s still quite an ask.

Second, many bases are still not allowing for space available flights, which is where you have flights scheduled to a specific area and any room leftover is designated for passengers. That is also based on the traveler’s priority, which can include PCS, dependent travel, leave, and training. This is due to ongoing COVID restrictions, as even flight missions run for deployments are still tightly controlled. Some even still require a ROM. So, while it many not be the most economical option, commercial flights are very likely the most efficient and effective option.

I’m sure it’s a disappointment, but they will get there, which is more than can be said for those who were scheduled to go last year. The best thing the mids can do is continue to be flexible, make the best of the time they have before they get there, and stay off social media about it. I’m sure there are some very hardworking individuals who did their best to arrange their travel the first time and are now working overtime to get it all rescheduled. Nothing is as simple as it seems, logistics and planning is a complicated process guided by significant regulations, even for mid training.
Click to expand...
Note: These mids are travelling under orders, not Space A. Since they have orders, they are a higher priority than many/most others. The sheer numbers here are probably the issue. The Navy has its own transport aircraft (VR Squadrons) that fly militarized 737s. They are not "free" for USNA as the requester for flights does "pay" for accounting purposes. FWIW, those squadrons are more commonly used for strategic lift in support of the fleet and are almost 100% manned by reservists.
 
Last edited:
Thank you for the clarification! I should have made my point clearer and not mixed the two examples. My Space A example was more to explain the difficulty in acquiring military-contracted or military flights, particularly in a Covid environment. I agree, the numbers make the situation particularly difficult. Good to know about the VR squadrons, my own experience centers more around the USAF (which I meant to use to caveat my original statement).
 
Not specifically related to the original post, but my DS had multiple changes/cancellations this summer flying out to COTRAMID/Marine Month. Most likely a combination of the current issues with aviation and staffing challenges. Hoping that all the mids make it out to their training.
 
A general curiosity question: when traveling on orders, and a commercial flight gets cancelled, do those traveling accept the ticket changes made by the airline to accommodate the cancellation (on another flight, for example), or do they need to go back through the travel office, for them to change their tickets? How does that work?
 
.
Ya … our daughter was supposed to be on that plane early this morning. This stinks. Some one is not work’n hard enough.

Sheesh … I am buried in grease all day tearing apart the front steering hubs on one of my farm tractors … I’ll do their job … they can come over and do mine.
.
 
justdoit19 said:
A general curiosity question: when traveling on orders, and a commercial flight gets cancelled, do those traveling accept the ticket changes made by the airline to accommodate the cancellation (on another flight, for example), or do they need to go back through the travel office, for them to change their tickets? How does that work?
Click to expand...
If the airline doesn't accommodate on their own (they are under no obligation to do so), the flight will have to be rebooked via SATO. If the flight is not booked via SATO, the ticket will not be reimbursed. I've been stuck at an airport for long layovers across days. Hopefully there's a USO and at least the flight is still free.

The tickets are bought at the cheapest price possible. Defense travel doesn't really care about a difference of a few days. Cross-country orders often get 2-3 proceed days, and OCONUS orders might get 4-5, depending on location. A delay of a few days is within threshold for what is ultimately low priority travel.
 
Generally, the answer will depend on the situation. If the flight is cancelled or one is bumped and the airline can reasonably re-accommodate to a later flight to meet mission/duties ASAP, then it can go through the airline. Most airlines are fairly good about rebooking military on the next available flight, even if that means rerouting. In other instances, one should consult their chain of command, because delays could have other ramifications that they should be aware of. For MIDN, I would always advise calling their summer training POC because there could be second and third order impacts, beyond just a later flight.

In general with air travel, a government employee should never (on their own) seek to incur any additional charges to the government. Additionally, some people do not realize that while on official orders/travel, any vouchers received from a cancelled flight or involuntary denied boarding may not be kept by a government employee, as they belong to the government per the Joint Ethics regulations.
 
justdoit19 said:
A general curiosity question: when traveling on orders, and a commercial flight gets cancelled, do those traveling accept the ticket changes made by the airline to accommodate the cancellation (on another flight, for example), or do they need to go back through the travel office, for them to change their tickets? How does that work?
Click to expand...
This happened a while back. I did not go back to the travel office after I was given my tickets. I had orders to Sicily. The SATO ticket office that @Capt MJ mentioned in an earlier post had cut tickets for me and my family to fly from San Francisco to Chicago to Munich. As luck would have it, we were delayed out of SFO and missed the connection out of O’Hare. I simply went to the ticket counter where I was given a hotel voucher as well as meal vouchers in Chicago. We were rerouted the following day to Munich via North Carolina (I think it was Raleigh). Why Munich? I had requested circuitous travel and took leave en route for a little vacation before checking in. We wandered down to Naples via train where I then got on a C-130 military space available flight to Sicily. Since I was on orders, we were on the top of the list for seat availability.
 
I was a supervisor with an airline for many years. Rerouted passengers all the time. Wondered about all that with this discussion about Mids and their SATO office. I suppose one traveling is significantly different than 300. Wonder how that will work out…
 
The airlines right now are a nightmare!!! Our flights were canceled today to head to USNA to take our plebe 2 be! Rescheduled for tomorrow but we have weather headed this way too. Not fun at all!! I figure eventually we will get her there just hope it’s before the oath on Wednesday night!!! I hope the mids get to their training. I do know that the airlines are totally understaffed right now. They did not hire back quickly enough for this summer high season.



QUOTE="DSANN, post: 830566, member: 54217"]
Lot's of theories over there in the social media world - but I think the best place to ask and the most accurate military response is here....
380 Mids (give or take a few) were heading to PROTRIMID in San Diego today. Said Mids were informed yesterday that only 20 seats were booked for today and throughout the week they would eventually get out there. How does that happen? The remaining 360 Mids now will miss their first week of PROTRIMID. So I guess I am asking - typically - what is the procedure to book flights? Doesn't the Navy have big planes to bring a whole group somewhere? Commercial flights were the last thing I thought the military would rely on for transporting large number of Mids. Thanks everyone for your responses!
[/QUOTE]
 
I have my fingers crossed for you and yours to make the flights tomorrow. Your plebe to be will be just fine and ready to handle the summer and it’s challenges. I am looking forward to sending her some letters.
 
The airlines are a wreck. Had DS booked to fly to London via Chicago. In the two weeks after booking, Chicago leg was canceled and rebooked twice. Cancelled yet again and this time rebooked via Dallas. That leg was then cancelled and rebooked, only to learn it was a software error (airline’s words) and didn’t need to be rebooked. He ultimately got where he was going, but that’s our post-covid world.

Don’t get me started on rental cars! That’s an even worse wreck!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top