Changes to the 4/C “Training” System

Question for those of you with ties to AFA from a Squid:

Rumors are abound here that your Commandant is introducing sweeping changes to your 4/C indoctrination program, so that there will be very little difference between an upperclass and underclass cadet. Is there any truth to this? I find it pretty hard to believe.

My son just asked me. I said it had to be a joke.

There will be some changes to the training environment each year, especially with a new COMM in the mix. Some of the parental FB groups, etc. are abuzz with rumors of sweeping changes including a potential end of recognition.

Personally, I'll be ignoring the rumor mill in the knowledge that an exceptional group of professionals is engaged and focused on assuring that USAFA fulfills its mission to educate, train, and inspire men and women to become leaders of character, motivated to lead the United States Air Force in service to our nation.

Yes - I had my 20yr reunion recently and we heard directly from the new Commandant that she is evaluating the current training environment and bringing an outsider perspective to the program. She is a Univ of Florida ROTC graduate and not a USAFA Grad. As most leaders do, we ask the tough question - "Why do we do it like this?" Initially it seemed that she was in a consumption mode to take it all in before passing judgement. Now, she is making sweeping changes that many, insiders and alum, believe are made in a vacuum and void of institutional knowledge.

The Cadet Wing circulated a petition to have her removed within the first two weeks on the job. Comm was offended that it only received a few hundred signatures. With that rough start, there has been great tension between the Wing and the Comm. For someone who wants to change everything and loosen the reigns, it is odd that she has had the Wing on restriction for much of this semester. The combination has created a pretty toxic environment. Until now, this has impacted the Wing, but the recent decision to virtually suspend all 4* training activity for the remainder of the semester has alumni up in arms and turning to Social Media. Details on Social Media are likely exaggerating a bit, but it does sound like 4* are at rest for the remainder of the semester until the Comm and team can get a plan together they are happy with. They expect to flip the switch back on next semester.

For years, the program has existed and there is always an example you can point to where a misguided 3* went too far and just did something dumb. I am unsure how you fix stupid at the institutional level when the only real answer is at the individual level. This would appear to be a case of punishing the masses to address the deficiencies of a few.

Perspective and input from an outsider can be valuable to any program. However, I would feel more comfortable if sweeping changes that impact the experience would come from someone who had lived it. Ultimately, the Supt is a grad and is allowing these changes to occur - so at the highest level, there is endorsement.

I lack inside info on how decisions are being made, but my hope is that the Comm is consulting with others in these decisions and that the Wing will be better off because of it. At the moment, based on what I am hearing, I am not a fan but am open to changing my opinion as more info is presented.

shiner said:

.Ultimately, the Supt is a grad and is allowing these changes to occur - so at the highest level, there is endorsement.

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I agree, ultimately it all falls on the Supe, good or bad. Right now it appears he’s giving her latitude, we’ll see how long he lets it go.
An outsiders perspective can often bring good ideas, but radical and seemingly poor changes to an otherwise productive system is not good. Things sound pretty rough there right now. Hopefully the Supe will keep things in check and all will be good in the end.

shiner said:

The Cadet Wing circulated a petition to have her removed within the first two weeks on the job.

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Holy cow. I find this incredible. I'm a Geezer former Enlisted and USNA Grad, but if that was done at sea we would have called it mutiny.

Nothing to do with Service Academies, but I'm disappointed that any such petition could be originated by military members in any command.

However, as I said, I'm a Geezer.

SaltiDawg said:

Holy cow. I find this incredible. I'm a Geezer former Enlisted and USNA Grad, but if that was done at sea we would have called it mutiny.

Nothing to do with Service Academies, but I'm disappointed that any such petition could be originated by military members in any command.

However, as I said, I'm a Geezer.

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Not sure where this rumor came from. I have not heard anything regarding a petition being passed around nor hundreds of fellow cadets signing it. The military is not a diplomacy and we understand that.

"...it is odd that she has had the Wing on restriction for much of this semester."
The wing was restricted for two weekends. Not 'much of this semester'.

AF22SIS said:

Not sure where this rumor came from.

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Not rumor. Direct from the Comm while on a panel in front of the Supt. The Athletic Director chimed in and added “you are not doing your job unless someone is calling for you to be fired.”

Can anyone elucidate us as to what the changes will be??

Much of the changes at hand can be blamed on the incident with the swimming team. That incident almost led to the SecAF being called to testify on the environment at the Academy, something that was viewed as unacceptable by AFA and AF leadership. So, the Supe brought in someone very experienced in modifying training environments to fit the modern PC standards. Gen. Edmondson installed massive changes to BMT at Lackland during her time there as commander and has been doing the same here at the Academy. Much of the 4th-class are not happy with training having been taken away for the time being but we are in no position to defy or even question an O-7.


Basic for 2024 is about to be way different from anything ever experienced in the past as well. I won’t go into depth on those changes.

Tx2AFA said:

Basic for 2024 is about to be way different from anything ever experienced in the past as well. I won’t go into depth on those changes.

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Would you mind going slightly deeper? Will it be easier, or more difficult? Or the same difficulty, just a different style?

I do not believe BCT will be easier, nor do I believe the "fourth class year" or any year will be "easier." I do believe a lot of the immature cra* that upperclassmen do because they "think" it should be done, will go away.

The commandant put out a letter to senior staff at USAFA, I am fortunate to have a copy. It doesn't say a lot, but it speaks volumes. Wait to see what comes down. Those not at USAFA, don't worry about it. Those there...you'll live it, when she says "go!" Until then, carry on.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

Here is a follow-up to this from the Commandant:

Tx2AFA said:

Much of the changes at hand can be blamed on the incident with the swimming team. That incident almost led to the SecAF being called to testify on the environment at the Academy, something that was viewed as unacceptable by AFA and AF leadership. So, the Supe brought in someone very experienced in modifying training environments to fit the modern PC standards. Gen. Edmondson installed massive changes to BMT at Lackland during her time there as commander and has been doing the same here at the Academy. Much of the 4th-class are not happy with training having been taken away for the time being but we are in no position to defy or even question an O-7.


Basic for 2024 is about to be way different from anything ever experienced in the past as well. I won’t go into depth on those changes.

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Glad I get to be part of the test class for this new technique ... I guess?

I hope that not all traditions are lost. I finally got in this year and it seems like everythings changing. My brother graduated in 2019 and I feel like our experiences are going to be totally different. Hoping for the best I guess.

@shiner Interesting video, thx for posting.

bigblue24 said:

I hope that not all traditions are lost. I finally got in this year and it seems like everythings changing. My brother graduated in 2019 and I feel like our experiences are going to be totally different. Hoping for the best I guess.

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I posted the below in a different thread... but may be helpful to understand what changes she is implementing...

So I just listened to all 40 minutes of this discussion. And I have to say... I really liked the new Commandant. She is very articulate and definitely is presenting a strategy that is 'different' but focused and has the best interest of the cadets in mind and at heart... here are some of the notes I took, in case others don't have 40 minutes to listen to the entire discussion.

- USAFA is now training for a new military and new war threats. With this in mind, as well as the new Space Program that was announced, USAFA will focus their training and academics to assist with the new 'war surface domain' - space.

- '...Cadets need to be equally space minded as they are air minded...'

- USAFA will be training the next generations of leaders to understand and be prepared for the next chapter of national defense; as they need to be prepared for a different fight. The near peer competitors mentioned were: China, Russia and Iran.

- As for the differences in training that is being mentioned... not sure if it will be 'harder' but it will be different. The Commandant indicated that the changes she is proposing (she called it "Knock It Off") will be changes that allow for a safer more deliberate environment. She expects a syllabus of what will be done - with deliberate outcomes. She is driving for consistency across all squadrons; as this will allow for all the cadets to be exposed to the same training.

- She wants the school to be a 4-year development program... she wants all all to be there, she wants engagements to go through a process that incorporates debriefs and she wants lessons learned from each activity for growth. She feels like this will allow the cadets to feel like they are at home and in a safe environment and reduce the number of cadets that 'hide' in their rooms or the library.

- Directed development over the 4 year program

- Mirror Operational AF

- PT sessions in operational unit with consistency and structure (potentially with brick training to get cadets in optimal condition without injury)

- Discipline Authority will be evaluated and corrected. (Who has the authority to discipline)

- Recognition => She is looking for a deliberate assessment of the 4 year program the will challenge them over the 4 years not just 4th year. (personally did not follow this 100%; however, this is what I took away).

- Foster a Culture of Dignity and Respect as a core compentency

- ROE's (I don't know what this is...) but she indicated that there will be changes that impact daily life... the one that I wrote down specifically as an example is - re-invigorate the squadron to feel like home and offers a safe environment - reflecting the operational AF.

- She indicated that she is not intentionally trying to take away the MEANINGFUL traditions at USAFA; however she is trying to take away things such as "peanut butter jar' and standing on chairs in mess hall..." Again, not familiar with this type of stuff... so, not sure what it means - but those were a couple of items she mentioned.

- She had a question challenging some of the changes as historical graduates feel that some of these traditions helped shape them as leaders and assisted with the near peer leadership environment. She indicated that she supports difficult and challenging; however will not support demeaning, which is how she took some of the comments... as cadets were referencing some of their sessions as going to a 'beat session'. She indicated that cadets should not ever think of sessions as beat downs... and that is the aspect she wants to change.

- she mentioned that she will be reducing the number of cadre that will be supporting BCT to allow more cadets to participate in summer internships and other summer programs based on their academic focus. And, she wants to fill some of the white space during BCT to allow for continuous growth and development.

- Not sure what this means; however there was a question about the "Terrazzo Gap" - confident I did not spell that correctly... but health with the differences between the D-1 athlete programs vs non-athlete (I think)... Commandant indicated that she is very much aligned with her cross-functional teams and they are committed to be aligned and helping all cadets understand the 'life of' on either side. They will be working to encourage a more collaborative environment that is thoughtful and understands the impact (if unintentional consequence) of decisions being made across the different groups.

- She also answered some questions about cadets supporting other games... and being incentivized to do so. She indicated that she feels they are already being incentivized... they are getting a 'free' education and getting paid... they should not need any additional incentive. She also addressed the ask of incenting by allowing them to not wear their uniform... and she indicated that should be a privilege...

- she was also asked if the cadets could wear their AF Blues to football games... and that was not really addressed...

I hope this is helpful... thought I would share some of my notes!

I listened to the whole thing, and I personally agree with 90% of what she said. Things gotta' change. Even Texas A&M (which is VERY steeped in tradition) had to initiate significant changes in the Corps over the last few years. The stuff that used to "fly" back in my day, just doesn't cut it anymore. You have to stress academics and basic military courtesy and traditions. If her emphasis is training cadets for the next war, and developing leaders of character that will be effective leaders in today's USAF, then so be it. Ultimately, the Lieutenants that commission out of the Academy have to be shaped to mirror what they can expect as leaders of Airmen in the functional Air Force.

But they gotta start wearing their Blues to football games. We watched a game this year and the Cadets looked sooooooo sloppy in those horrible UCP's.

One of classmates (a very fine and accomplished gentleman) made the comment to the Commandant at the end of the 40 minute video about wearing blues to football games. His comments were well-reasoned and articulate. We were proud to wear the uniform, even in the days when the country was not at all pro-military.
It was unfortunate that his remarks were not taken seriously.

I watched it as well and I am not a fan:
She did not fully explain why she instituted her "Knock it off" order. From what I interpreted from her cryptic explanation, a squadron(s)? went to a rock quarry and loaded everyone's ruck w/100 lbs. of rocks. I took this as some squadron(s) are very gung-ho with training while others are more chill & she wants to even-out all of the squadron experiences. Another example she gave was that some cadets told her they hide in their dorms or the library in order not be subjected to squadron attention.

One way she can address this is for her to hold her permanent party who directly supervise the squadron accountable. (As Jack Nicholson said in A Few Good Men, "I think I read that somewhere..."). Her people are supposed to be aware of all activities, training sessions, "beatings", etc. What was their explanation? Did they approve this activity? If not, why not? Maybe they're the personnel whose duties/assignments should be changed? That's another instance which went unexplained. She stated that she interviewed some cadets & they complained of beatings. "Beatings" are PT sessions for underclassmen led by an upperclassmen; no one is actually beaten. It is not harassment/hazing if the cadet ordering the PT does the same exercise with the underclassmen as I understand it to be. Hopefully someone explained that to her.

She wants to take on the "Terazzo Gap" which I assume is the rift/resentment between "IC's" & regular cadets caused by the athletes getting out of mandatory squadron assignments. Seems like whenever there's a work detail, it just so happens that there's an athletic team activity. This "gap" is more driven by the individual athlete (rather than athletes as a whole) abusing their status than anything else. It's simple to check out, just verify w/the coach if an actual training session was scheduled during the squadron assignment & what was the duration of the meeting. You might be surprised at the answers you would get. Some take advantage while others report to the squadron whenever they can. Human nature, there are slackers & achievers everywhere. Her solution is to have each member of one group sharing the experiences of the other. While it would be nice to see the athletes participate in an unpleasant squadron activity while the non-athletes take the IC's place & skip out on the chore for "team meeting/training", but I'm unsure if this is a high priority. All the coach has to say is 'I need so & so for xyz and the athlete is out of the work detail. The way to address this is to have the athletes not abuse the privilege of missing squadron activities by holding their coach IE, again,a member of her permanent party, fully accountable for this. On the one hand, she stated that Gen Goldfein has made it a priority to have the squadron be the primary focus by the administration but she as yet not explained how the athlete will be made to conform to the 4-Star's focus. Make the athlete work at the unpleasant assignment? I'm sure they'll say I can't wait to do this again! We'll see but I think I know how it will play out...more of the same.

The female athlete cadet who broke her pelvis during Beast. No explanation on how that happened (a significant injury no doubt; she had to be sent home & come back next year) but this incident is the reason Beast will be changed. I really want to know how this occurred but again was unexplained.

Lastly, I'll end with @USAFA'77 post. He is exactly right on how it went down. The gentlemen made his point, (for the Wing to wear blues @ football games) the audience applauded (the only time that occurred in her 40" presentation) & she blew him off joking that it was Gen. Gould's fault (I think the General was present at the front of the room facing the audience) & made statements implying that the Alum's suggestion was so out of line that she would not even consider it. Nice way to end the session. A leader listens to a complaint, acknowledges that she see's the persons perception of the situation & can either make a decision then or consider it & get back to them, etc. The gentlemen was not a current cadet, he is an Alumnus, Class of 77 & deserved a more respectful answer then her public rebuke.

For the record I supported prior general until the details of that generals' toxic leadership environment/misconduct became public. I was not happy with what I heard from this presentation. That might have been different if more details of the incidents were provided for which she is justifying her policy changes. As she is an outsider (non-grad) I think those details are crucial to understanding the changes and building trust, esp. for the leader of 4K+ personnel in the 18-21 range. I respect her rank; I'll use less pronouns when I resp...become more familiar with her leadership style. We'll see.