USAF Fighter Pilot Shortage-Recent Article

brovol said:
Taxing the airline would be literally punishing and depriving a service member of a living solely because he/she served in the military. Moreover, it is as un-American, and socialistic as anything could be. All due respect; terrible idea.
Click to expand...

Nonsense - it just forces the airlines to contribute to the training of the experienced pilots they hire. It is still a fraction of the cost of paying the training themselves and they know it. Would not cost anyone a job - still all the cockpit seats to fill and air travel miles are ever increasing. Its all academic anyway but an interesting economic debate.

As for being socialist it is LESS socialist than having every US taxpayer subsidize private sector airline pilot training via USAF defense budget tax dollars instead of only the flying public who benefits paying directly through ticket prices.
 
Last edited:
MidwestDad said:
brovol said:
Taxing the airline would be literally punishing and depriving a service member of a living solely because he/she served in the military. Moreover, it is as un-American, and socialistic as anything could be. All due respect; terrible idea.
Click to expand...

Nonsense - it just forces the airlines to contribute to the training of the experienced pilots they hire. It is still a fraction of the cost of paying the training themselves and they know it. Would not cost anyone a job - still all the cockpit seats to fill and air travel miles are ever increasing. Its all academic anyway but an interesting economic debate.

As for being socialist it is LESS socialist than having every US taxpayer subsidize private sector airline pilot training via USAF defense budget tax dollars instead of only the flying public who benefits paying directly through ticket prices.
Click to expand...
If an airline has to pay significantly more for a military trained pilot than a privately trained pilot, they will hire the later. That penalizes the pilot who loses that spot, soley because that pilot served in the military.

And taxpayers are not subsidising airlines anymore that they subsidize companies who hire military vets based on the training they receive in any other discipline. Places hire people based on experience, regardless of how people got that experience. They know military training in solid.
 
While the post by sherrie above highlights the news conference statements regarding pilot shortage, there are other topics of interest to readers of this forum that are addressed as well; new platform rollouts (F-35, TX), space issues, sequestration, training, retention of ground crew, the Texas shooting, etc.

For those interested in the 47" news conference below is the C-SPAN link (I found it a quick listen & it's nice to hear info/visually see it being given by those in charge.)

https://www.c-span.org/video/?437097-1/air-force-secretary-chief-staff-hold-news-conference
 
brovol said:
Does this necessarily mean that more aviation spots will be available out of the academy? Could it possibly mean cross commissioning into AF aviation might be more possible for graduates of other academies? My son is at West Point, but was also offered an appointment to USAFA. Like many, flying jets was a dream he gave up when he accepted the WP appointment. Now I wonder if the shortage might provide another opportunity.

What say you experts?
Click to expand...
Not at this point. The AF doesnt have a problem getting enough people wanting to be pilots. They have three sources, the academy, ROTC and OTS. There are plenty of people who apply for it it and do not get a pilot spot. The other problem is that currently there are only three UPT (Undergraduate Pilot Training) bases in the country. Besides those three , there is ENJPPT which is NATO UPT based in Texas. I think they only do 40 American pilots ever year. It may be a bigger number but I am not that far off. Those 4 schools are way backed up and there is a wait time to get in. As it is, there is sometimes a 6 month to a year wait time between graduating college and commissioning (ROTC) and actually going to UPT. The other issue is that they cant get more training planes, so while they have increased the class size by 3-5 students, they cant process people any quicker as the dont have the planes to do so. So adding more people to the UPT pipeline isnt going to solve any problems. They can only process for the sake of argument 700 pilots every year. If there are 1000 or 5000 students waiting in line, it will take the same amount of time to process them. Again, they currently have more than enough people waiting in line. The answer isnt more pilot spots, but rather more UPT bases and more planes to train in. The other issue they dont mention is that there isnt a lack of junior level pilots. What they are losing are senior pilots with 10 years of experience.. From what I read, part of this is the money the airlines are paying and are unhappy how the AF is treating them in general. I have to imagine another issue is the ability to have a career in the military. From what I read, it isnt a problem to become a major, but after that, jumping up to LT. Colonel and beyond becomes extremely hard.
 
VelveteenR said:
I posted last May that a rep from the USAFA came to West Point to talk about the shortage and pursue interest from the corps. Our son attended the briefing, but he's not interested in aviation, so I don't know if there were any takers or what the process was for anyone who was interested. My point in the original post was that I found it odd that the air force couldn't fill the need from its own ranks, but it seems from the good information posted above that the issue is more complicated and planning only goes so far when needs change.
Click to expand...
They do have enough people, that isnt a problem. Plenty of people who want to be pilots and dont get a spot. Plus there are tons of pilots in reserves and guard who join these groups because it guarantees them the plane they want fly. Unlike AD where the AF tells you what you are going to fly. The truth is if you want to fly and want to fly a fighter plane for example, it is easier to join the reserve or national guard
 
MidwestDad said:
The obvious thing would be to further extend the service obligation for incoming flight school candidates. Retention bonuses aren't getting it done. Wont fix today's shortage but will mitigate future problems.

Or from an economists perspective levy a stiff tax on airlines for each military trained pilot they hire. Like 200% of average pilot salary. Add that $$ to the retention bonus pool to level the playing field.
Click to expand...
Seriously, as it is pilots spend 11 years minimum in the AF. You think someone is going to commit 15 years or more of their life voluntarily. As for the airlines, when the pilots leave the AF, they become civilians and can do whatever they want. Why should the airlines be penalized for hiring. If the AF is concerned, they they should pay higher retention bonuses
 
MidwestDad said:
brovol said:
Taxing the airline would be literally punishing and depriving a service member of a living solely because he/she served in the military. Moreover, it is as un-American, and socialistic as anything could be. All due respect; terrible idea.
Click to expand...

Nonsense - it just forces the airlines to contribute to the training of the experienced pilots they hire. It is still a fraction of the cost of paying the training themselves and they know it. Would not cost anyone a job - still all the cockpit seats to fill and air travel miles are ever increasing. Its all academic anyway but an interesting economic debate.

As for being socialist it is LESS socialist than having every US taxpayer subsidize private sector airline pilot training via USAF defense budget tax dollars instead of only the flying public who benefits paying directly through ticket prices.
Click to expand...
So you are going to make Air Force pilots toxic. NO one will want to hire them because they are more expensive. Ever wonder what happened to Saturday morning cartoons. They all disappeared. Government came down in their infinite wisdom and proclaimed that for every hour of sat morning cartoons, they would have to show 1 hour of educational programming. The networks realizing that it would cost them big money to do so, decided the cheapest way to fix this was to get rid of Saturday morning cartoons. My point being, make something more expensive, it is easier to get rid of them
 
When my son went thru UPT, they were pumping out Heavies. Only 1 trainee from his class got a fighter. There were about 8 or so that were in the T-38 (Fighter training). There were a lot of disappointed young people, including my son. His roommate at USAFA went thru later, about 1 year. He got a fighter. I was talking to him at my son's wedding, he told me that now they are pumping out fighters. That alot of the people he went thru UPT got fighters. The funny thing is that my son and his roommate both are IP's and actually enjoying it.
 
DevilDog said:
When my son went thru UPT, they were pumping out Heavies. Only 1 trainee from his class got a fighter. There were about 8 or so that were in the T-38 (Fighter training). There were a lot of disappointed young people, including my son. His roommate at USAFA went thru later, about 1 year. He got a fighter. I was talking to him at my son's wedding, he told me that now they are pumping out fighters. That alot of the people he went thru UPT got fighters. The funny thing is that my son and his roommate both are IP's and actually enjoying it.
Click to expand...

To be fair, the two FY18 classes didn't drop a lot of fighters and there probably won't be more for a few months (2-3 per class depending on the base, and ENJJPT is doing maybe 50% fighters right now.) There are 6-9 T-38 slots per class right now, too. The pendulum keeps swinging...
 
For about 6 months earlier this year there were 4-6 fighters per class. It was like Oprah.... You get a fighter.... and you get a fighter... and you get a fighter..... Then as BlahuKauna said the spigot of fighters dried right up. Most of that was due to the FTU pipeline filling up because of shutting down the FTU training squadrons for the F-16 at Luke AFB since Luke is transitioning to the F-35. They are in the process of standing up a third Viper FTU squadron at Holloman right now so by mid-2018 they should start opening up the pipeline again.

Stealth_81
 
The shortage is across all platforms, but as a percentage the fighters have the largest deficit. About 2/3 of the shortage of pilots is from the fighter community.

Stealth_81
 
This is what the Columbus class got

KCBM 18-01

T-38s

F-15J JASDF

2x F-15C

F-15E

T-6 FAIP

C-146

B-52

RC-135

T-1s

KC-135 Kansas ANG

2x KC-135 Penn ANG

KC-135 Scott

KC-135 Fairchild

KC-135 Seymour Johnson

C-130H GA ANG

C-5 Kelly Field AFRC

C-17 Charleston AFRC

2x KC-10 McGuire

C-130J Yokota

C-130J Little Rock

EC-130 Davis Monthan

E-3 Tinker

T-6 FAIP

T-1 FAIP


I think the followng is at Vance

KEND 18-02

T-38s:
F-15E Seymour Johnson
F-35 Luke
T-6 FAIP
T-38 FAIP
MC-130H Hurlburt
CV-22 Hurlburt
E-3 Tinker

T-1s:
2xKC-135 McConnell
KC-135 Beale (ANG)
KC-135 Eielson (ANG)
KC-10 Travis
KC-10 McGuire
2xC-130J Little Rock
C-130J Yakota
MC-130J Kirtland
T-6 FAIP
E-8 Robbins
C-130H Great Falls (ANG)
RC-135 Offutt
EC-130J Pittsburgh (ANG)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top