5th Slot

Status
Not open for further replies.

America's Finest

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,588
Okay, well every MOC keeps the 5th slot as an emergency slot. This amounts to over 500 unused slots in the academy.

The academy always runs at capacity even though there are over 500 unused slots.

1) How does this work?
2) What would happen if these emergency slots were all used? The academy is already running full so what would happen to these 500+ people?

I really dont understand this as I would imagine if you added up all the slots everyone has that would equal the total amount allowed in the academy. This is not the case as even with so many slots not used, the academy still has the full amount of cadets.
 

Luigi59

Banned
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
4,628
Okay, well every MOC keeps the 5th slot as an emergency slot. This amounts to over 500 unused slots in the academy.

Where are you getting this information?

Please explain what you are talking about, as well as which academy you are talking about.

Emergency slots? :confused:
 

Just_A_Mom

10-Year Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Messages
4,826
My congressman does this too. The 5th slot is almost never filled.
It is a good idea to prevent a class from being shut out.

Each Congressman gets 5 cadets credited to them at each academy (the "big three")
if they appoint one each year and no cadets dropped out - in a perfect world - they would always have an open slot.
If they filled the 5th slot and a cadet was turned back they could be without an opening for a year.

Not every MOC slot is filled each year - far from it. They are filled according to the US Code from the pool of candidates who are alternates.
This is why some congressmen get many candidates who are on their nomination list appointments.
 

America's Finest

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,588
Where are you getting this information?

Please explain what you are talking about, as well as which academy you are talking about.

Emergency slots? :confused:
I have received that information from many sources.

Each MOC has 5 slots and they use one every year (nominating 10 people to compete for it). They leave the 5th slot for emergency purposes (maybe 2 really competitive candidates in one year). It's common knowledge and isn't an official rule but common practice.

It happens for all the academies.
 

America's Finest

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,588

Luigi59

Banned
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
4,628
Five. Keep in mind this is for ever MOC.

The only Academy that does not have this system is USCGA because they fall under the Department of Transportation. They compete on a nationwide basis for all the slots.
Your information is incorrect.

1st - While USCGA appointments are nationwide and by merit, the USCGA is NOT under the Dept of Transportation. They are under the Dept of Homeland Security (in peacetime) and "the hard nucleus about which the Navy forms in time of war."

http://www.gocoastguard.com/

2nd - The USMMA uses an slight different way of providing nominations. Each MOC in each state gets 10 nominations every year, regardless of how many they currently have charged to them. APpointments are granted based on the proportional representation in Congress of the candidate's home state.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/46cfr310.53.htm
 

J Collins

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Founding Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
1,120
Your information is incorrect.

1st - While USCGA appointments are nationwide and by merit, the USCGA is NOT under the Dept of Transportation. They are under the Dept of Homeland Security (in peacetime) and "the hard nucleus about which the Navy forms in time of war."

http://www.gocoastguard.com/

2nd - The USMMA uses an slight different way of providing nominations. Each MOC in each state gets 10 nominations every year, regardless of how many they currently have charged to them. APpointments are granted based on the proportional representation in Congress of the candidate's home state.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/46cfr310.53.htm
Luigi thanks for the clarification..... I hope our congressman and Senators know they get 10 and not 5 :)

but I do know that our one Senator is not planning on send in her nominees until the end of January..... and according to the link you sent they are due the end of December! :(

(d) Date for nominations. The nominating official will send a nomination form for each nominee to the Admissions Office, U.S. Merchant Marine Academy, Kings Point, Long Island, New York 11024, normally between August 1 and December 31 of the school year preceding that in which admission to the Academy is desired.


but I guess that says normally, not that they are required to do it before 12/31.
 

qwerty52

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
51
My congressman does this too. The 5th slot is almost never filled.
It is a good idea to prevent a class from being shut out.

Each Congressman gets 5 cadets credited to them at each academy (the "big three")
if they appoint one each year and no cadets dropped out - in a perfect world - they would always have an open slot.
If they filled the 5th slot and a cadet was turned back they could be without an opening for a year.

Not every MOC slot is filled each year - far from it. They are filled according to the US Code from the pool of candidates who are alternates.
This is why some congressmen get many candidates who are on their nomination list appointments.
I'm confused. If a "cadet was turned back", wouldn't that MOC's slot open up again? I thought that the rules allowed a MOC to have five total at each academy at any one time--e.g., Could have five plebes or two plebes and one in each of the other classes. I don't understand why a MOC would not use one of his nominations.
 

America's Finest

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,588
Your information is incorrect.

1st - While USCGA appointments are nationwide and by merit, the USCGA is NOT under the Dept of Transportation. They are under the Dept of Homeland Security (in peacetime) and "the hard nucleus about which the Navy forms in time of war."

http://www.gocoastguard.com/

2nd - The USMMA uses an slight different way of providing nominations. Each MOC in each state gets 10 nominations every year, regardless of how many they currently have charged to them. APpointments are granted based on the proportional representation in Congress of the candidate's home state.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/46cfr310.53.htm
The department was a typo.

As far as the rest goes, I wasn't aware that USCGA had nominations. I was always told they were the only SA that didn't.

I'm confused. If a "cadet was turned back", wouldn't that MOC's slot open up again? I thought that the rules allowed a MOC to have five total at each academy at any one time--e.g., Could have five plebes or two plebes and one in each of the other classes. I don't understand why a MOC would not use one of his nominations.
They won't because by leaving that slot open they are saving it for a moment of need. Most nominate 10 candidates every year and those 10 compete for 1 of the 5 slots. This means there will always be a slot used every year and always be an extra availible for when needed.
 

J Collins

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Founding Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
1,120
CGA get appointments.. not nominations..he worded it smilar but different words..

USMA, USNA, USAFA and USMMA are required to have certain amount of students from each state... USCGA is not required to do this..

but I guess there are some people that are trying to change policy and have nominations eventually required for CGA also.
 

America's Finest

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,588
CGA get appointments.. not nominations..he worded it smilar but different words..

USMA, USNA, USAFA and USMMA are required to have certain amount of students from each state... USCGA is not required to do this..

but I guess there are some people that are trying to change policy and have nominations eventually required for CGA also.
That is what I thought. So my information was correct. Apart from the typo that is.

Clarification:

All SA use nominations except USCGA.
 

Luigi59

Banned
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
4,628
The department was a typo.
No, a typo is putting an "i" before an "e" or forgetting that Pittsburgh ends in "h."

Misinformation is what you gave.

America's Finest said:
As far as the rest goes, I wasn't aware that USCGA had nominations. I was always told they were the only SA that didn't.
They don't. Who said they did? You do understand that the USMMA and the USCGA are two different academies, don't you? :confused:

That is what I thought. So my information was correct. Apart from the typo that is.
No, your information was NOT correct. The USMMA Congressional nomination system is different from the system used by the USAFA, USNA, and the USMA.
 

America's Finest

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,588
No, a typo is putting an "i" before an "e" or forgetting that Pittsburgh ends in "h."

Misinformation is what you gave.



They don't. Who said they did? You do understand that the USMMA and the USCGA are two different academies, don't you? :confused:



No, your information was NOT correct. The USMMA Congressional nomination system is different from the system used by the USAFA, USNA, and the USMA.
Please stop posting in my thread if all you plan on doing is trying to post negativity and acuse me of something. I sait it was a typo because I know the right information but accidentaly wrote something else. I am not an expert on those two particular academies but I do know what I said is correct.
 

Luigi59

Banned
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
4,628
I am not an expert on those two particular academies but I do know what I said is correct.
Wrong again.

One thing you're gonna need at an academy is the ability to know when you're wrong.

J Collins posted this:

J Collins said:
how many slots fo USMMA?
You're response?

America's Finest said:
Five. Keep in mind this is for ever MOC.
:scratch:

Which is completely incorrect.

I even posted the relevant section of the Code of Federal Regulations that deals with nominations to the United States Merchant Marine Academy, yet you still want to believe you are correct?

:screwy:

America's Finest said:
Please stop posting in my thread if all you plan on doing is trying to post negativity and acuse me of something.
Deal. :beer1:

You stop posting incorrect information, and I'll ignore you.

But when you post incorrect information here, other candidates, parents, or anyone looking for info may actually think you know what you're talking about and believe it.

If you don't know the answer, don't answer. :thumb:
 

America's Finest

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,588
Wrong again.

One thing you're gonna need at an academy is the ability to know when you're wrong.

J Collins posted this:



You're response?



:scratch:

Which is completely incorrect.

I even posted the relevant section of the Code of Federal Regulations that deals with nominations to the United States Merchant Marine Academy, yet you still want to believe you are correct?

:screwy:



Deal. :beer1:

You stop posting incorrect information, and I'll ignore you.

But when you post incorrect information here, other candidates, parents, or anyone looking for info may actually think you know what you're talking about and believe it.

If you don't know the answer, don't answer. :thumb:
I mistook the USMMA with USCGA. I don't mind you posting the correct information but the manner in which you are doing it could use some improvement. I advice you focus on the correct information more and less on others making mistakes. If your intent truly is to help others then that is what you will do.
 

Antoinette

10-Year Member
Founding Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
883
We have the link explaining the USMMA nomination rules - http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/46cfr310.53.htm - thank you Luigi59. :smile: We also have the link to the document that explains in detail the nomination process for each of the five federal SAs - https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstream/handle/10207/2687/RL33213_20060221.pdf?sequence=2 - thank you Americas Finest. :smile:

The quote from https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstream/handle/10207/2687/RL33213_20060221.pdf?sequence=2 that explains the fifth slot:
When a congressionally nominated academy position is vacant, a Member of
Congress is entitled to nominate 10 persons for possible appointment. As DOD
service academy cadets who received a congressional nomination graduate, or as
their appointments are otherwise terminated, the nominating Member office can
make new nominations. Typically, one appointment per DOD academy per Senator
and Representative is available annually. In some years, however, a congressional
office that is allocated five positions in each academy will have the opportunity to
make nominations that could lead to two appointments to an academy.
Appointments made by a predecessor are considered part of the quota of a newly
elected Member. Appointments made for candidates whose Representative changes
as a result of legislative redistricting are considered as part of the new Member’s
allocation.6

6 10 U.S.C. 9347, USAFA; 10 U.S.C. 6955, USNA; and 10 U.S.C. 4347, USMA.
I encourage anyone interested in how the nomination process works to read both linked documents in their entirety.
 

Maximus

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
1,484
We have the link explaining the USMMA nomination rules - http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/46cfr310.53.htm - thank you Luigi59. :smile: We also have the link to the document that explains in detail the nomination process for each of the five federal SAs - https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstream/handle/10207/2687/RL33213_20060221.pdf?sequence=2 - thank you Americas Finest. :smile:

The quote from https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstream/handle/10207/2687/RL33213_20060221.pdf?sequence=2 that explains the fifth slot:


I encourage anyone interested in how the nomination process works to read both linked documents in their entirety.
Do Nominations get counted when a Candidate is placed into the Prep School? I realize they need a new Nomination after Prep School but would that allow a MOC to have two people at say the USMA and the USMAPs in the same year?

The reason I ask is because the MOC's military liaison called and said they really wanted my son and gave him the Nomination but, they were recommending the Prep school. The Nomination is reflected on the Academies web site as of Dec. 16th.
 

Antoinette

10-Year Member
Founding Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
883
Maximus,

Many congratulations to your son! Getting a nomination is a huge honor! :yay:

You asked:
Do Nominations get counted when a Candidate is placed into the Prep School?
As I understand the nomination/appointment process, if your son is chosen for USMAPS then his nomination will not be "used" or counted. A spot at USMAPS does not count as one of the MOC's appointments.

I realize they need a new Nomination after Prep School but would that allow a MOC to have two people at say the USMA and the USMAPs in the same year?
Yes, a MOC can have a cadet at USMA and one at MAPS in the same year.

To my knowledge, MOCs have no say in who is offered a spot at USMAPS.

From http://www.usma.edu/USMAPS/pages/admissions/admissions_home.htm

The purpose of the United States Military Academy Preparatory School (USMAPS), is to prepare selected candidates for success at West Point. As such, admission to USMAPS is determined by the West Point Director of Admissions; applicants do NOT apply directly to the Prep School.
(I added the emphasis)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top