Academic Support At USMMA?

I

Iblameej

Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2023
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163
Question for anyone at USMMA - I got an appointment but am nervous about how rigorous the program is. I am a recruited athlete and that hugely helped me get in. That also makes mw
Think I may not be academically ready. Are the professors helpful? Are there tutors available? My worst fear is to fail out and let myself and my family down. I keep hearing how the USMMA is the hardest Academy to graduate from and the dropout rate is also the highest. Thanks for any advice.
 
Same I haven’t been appointed yet but the only reason I got my nomination was bc I’m an athlete. Literally debating going somewhere else entirely bc if I am struggling in HS, I don’t even want to know how badly I will struggle at USMMA.
 
USMMA (and the other SAs) spend lots of effort to bring in midshipmen and cadets. They want them to stay and thrive. When I was a USAFA instructor, my main focus was teaching and working with students. I was routinely available to my students weekdays and weekends, and my classes were small at about 20 to 25 students for the core physics courses that all cadets were required to take. My current student at USMMA has also taken advantage of the additional help available to him.

I encourage all students to move quickly when they start to encounter academic issues. You must advocate for yourself -- do not wait and reach out it immediately if you start to have academic issues. Use the same grit and determination that you used in your sport to be successful at USMMA, and you'll do fine!

By the way, I have a few students that will be joining you at USMMA this summer, 2024. Good luck!
 
navy2715 said:
Same I haven’t been appointed yet but the only reason I got my nomination was bc I’m an athlete. Literally debating going somewhere else entirely bc if I am struggling in HS, I don’t even want to know how badly I will struggle at USMMA.
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I feel the same way. I listened to
Some zoom meetings over thanksgiving
From plebes at USMMA. The dude said a bunch already failed out after 1st trimester.
 
Academician said:
USMMA (and the other SAs) spend lots of effort to bring in midshipmen and cadets. They want them to stay and thrive. When I was a USAFA instructor, my main focus was teaching and working with students. I was routinely available to my students weekdays and weekends, and my classes were small at about 20 to 25 students for the core physics courses that all cadets were required to take. My current student at USMMA has also taken advantage of the additional help available to him.

I encourage all students to move quickly when they start to encounter academic issues. You must advocate for yourself -- do not wait and reach out it immediately if you start to have academic issues. Use the same grit and determination that you used in your sport to be successful at USMMA, and you'll do fine!

By the way, I have a few students that will be joining you at USMMA this summer, 2024. Good luck!
Click to expand...
Thank you! I appreciate your reply.
 
Honestly, if you are "struggling" in high school, I suspect you will have a very tough time at KP, despite the academic support that is available. My DS went from 4.5 HS GPA, taking AP everything to struggling mightily to get C's in Calc and Physics his first trimester. He took advantage of every opportunity for academic support and passed, but he did not expect the struggle that it turned out to be. He's a plebe this year and, yes, MANY of his classmates did not survive the first trimester.
 
Hopeful_KP_Dad said:
Honestly, if you are "struggling" in high school, I suspect you will have a very tough time at KP, despite the academic support that is available. My DS went from 4.5 HS GPA, taking AP everything to struggling mightily to get C's in Calc and Physics his first trimester. He took advantage of every opportunity for academic support and passed, but he did not expect the struggle that it turned out to be. He's a plebe this year and, yes, MANY of his classmates did not survive the first trimester.
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I’m not struggling by any means in high school - I am in AP Calc BC, AP Physics, and have 10 other AP classes under my belt - 34 ACT. But have just heard MMA was extremely tough. Having second thoughts if it will be the right fit.
 
@Iblameej and @Hopeful_KP_Dad - I was listening in on that same Zoom call (while my DS was on it) when the # of plebes who didn’t make it out of the first trimester was provided. If a recruit isn’t concerned about that # I feel their glasses are too rose colored. This has been my concern all along (pace of academics) & DS did inquire about academic support on a previous call with the coach. I’m confident DS is capable but my concern is “at what cost”. I know KP is his first choice but if he’s provided an appointment, we need to have what I call a “come to Jesus” discussion about what he thinks his first year will look like vs reality - based on the data that was provided on that call. One can “feel” whatever they want but numbers don’t lie. So many are successful at KP. We know it’s an amazing opportunity but if “Plan 1B” (not KP but still another amazing opportunity) was the final decision I would be just as happy. DS doesn’t have an appointment but I will continue to advise DS to take the time to make sure his “final answer” is the best fit. He’s going pro in life, not athletics.
 
Boymomof3 said:
@Iblameej and @Hopeful_KP_Dad - I was listening in on that same Zoom call (while my DS was on it) when the # of plebes who didn’t make it out of the first trimester was provided. If a recruit isn’t concerned about that # I feel their glasses are too rose colored. This has been my concern all along (pace of academics) & DS did inquire about academic support on a previous call with the coach. I’m confident DS is capable but my concern is “at what cost”. I know KP is his first choice but if he’s provided an appointment, we need to have what I call a “come to Jesus” discussion about what he thinks his first year will look like vs reality - based on the data that was provided on that call. One can “feel” whatever they want but numbers don’t lie. So many are successful at KP. We know it’s an amazing opportunity but if “Plan 1B” (not KP but still another amazing opportunity) was the final decision I would be just as happy. DS doesn’t have an appointment but I will continue to advise DS to take the time to make sure his “final answer” is the best fit. He’s going pro in life, not athletics.
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Wise approach. Feel free to DM me if you want an honest assessment from a parent who was in your position a year ago and now has a plebe/athlete at the Academy.
 
Hopeful_KP_Dad said:
Wise approach. Feel free to DM me if you want an honest assessment from a parent who was in your position a year ago and now has a plebe/athlete at the Academy.
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Many thanks 😊! I really appreciate that. I definitely will if he gets an appointment! He demonstrated his buckle down/study ridiculously hard ability/approach when the coach asked him to get his SAT ⬆️ by 30-40 points (he raised it by 90 in about 90 days). He’s bright/smart enough. But my question: “Is that something you want to go through?” Ultimately, it’s his choice but as a parent we need to ask those questions when you hear those statistics. We also discussed the possibility of him being “set-back” & he already said it wouldn’t crush him & he would just come to work with me. I’m in administration at the community college (plus adjunct faculty) so thankfully our kids don’t have the negative view of being at a comm college (& they go for free). My oldest overloaded last semester when he added an online class at my college & decided to take another gen-ed over winter session even though he doesn’t need it to graduate on time 🤷🏻‍♀️. We’ll also see my BFF, who is in college administration, over break - I’m going to have him explain the situation & see what she says. Sometimes you “hear” another trusted adult vs your parents blabbing in your ear 😉.

Thank you, again!
 
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Boymomof3 said:
@Iblameej and @Hopeful_KP_Dad - I was listening in on that same Zoom call (while my DS was on it) when the # of plebes who didn’t make it out of the first trimester was provided. If a recruit isn’t concerned about that # I feel their glasses are too rose colored. This has been my concern all along (pace of academics) & DS did inquire about academic support on a previous call with the coach. I’m confident DS is capable but my concern is “at what cost”. I know KP is his first choice but if he’s provided an appointment, we need to have what I call a “come to Jesus” discussion about what he thinks his first year will look like vs reality - based on the data that was provided on that call. One can “feel” whatever they want but numbers don’t lie. So many are successful at KP. We know it’s an amazing opportunity but if “Plan 1B” (not KP but still another amazing opportunity) was the final decision I would be just as happy. DS doesn’t have an appointment but I will continue to advise DS to take the time to make sure his “final answer” is the best fit. He’s going pro in life, not athletics.
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💯 - I contacted the coach and he said the numbers in that zoom call were not accurate and very high. Still, alarming. So many decisions.
 
@Iblameej, you have stumbled into one of the best questions I have seen for USMMA. My DS departed USMMA for these reasons - TWICE... I may be only 1 voice, but I can say the situation was very surprising to me. When you hear that 1/3 of the class rolls back to the next year - this is actually normal for USMMA. Every grade level at the school has this challenge because of their model. This is not an 8 semester program like the other schools and it can take 7 years to complete. It is common to have people from every grade to complete the program. The numbers (in particular the freshman class) are so shocking, it is hard to believe this is even possible or allowed without corrective action.

@Academician - I highly encourage you to gain current intel on the availability of extra instruction at USMMA. It is a FAR DIFFERENT situation than USAFA. Quality of instruction, pace of consumption (because of trimester model), and age of instructional staff (see ratemyprofessor for very accurate descriptions). I am a USAFA grad and former USAFA faculty member and can safely say there is no comparison between the academic support services between schools.

USMMA really doesn't do academic probation like that of the other service academies. For us, round 1 saw a failure in chemistry. The roll-back program sends the student home at the end of the impacted trimester. You do not pass go and move forward, you roll backwards. Students are instructed to take the course at a local community college and once they pass, the score is sent back to USMMA and completes the terms and conditions of their re-entry into the program. The student then returns in AUGUST of the next academic year to try again. For Plebes, you do not return with the incoming class. Instead, you show up for the start of the school year. This is probably the worst part because you miss the bonding that occurs during the challenges of indoc. You are branded the kid who failed out last year. Your "classmates" are now upperclassmen. You have no community other than the ~6 that choose to come back. In a perfect world, your roommate is also a turnback. Psychologically, its pretty bad. Then, around the end of the first tri, those new plebes who thought you were scum of the earth come around asking questions because they see impending doom with grades and now understand the reality of their situation.

In our case, DS survived first trimester and we thought all was good. Then, he encountered a problem in a class with only two graded events. He failed the first one and it became mathematically impossible to achieve a passing grade in the course. Side note - are we setting students up for success with situations like this? He was yet again faced with the offer directly from the Superintendent to roll back and join the next plebe class. MIND BLOWING!!! He opted to depart and not return because of how far behind in terms of time/semesters he was from his high school peer group.

The trimester system is required because of the sea time required to graduate. It accelerates academic delivery, and that makes quality of instruction critical. There are a few known poor instructors with tenure who cannot be fired. If you are borderline to begin with, and land in those classes, it is certainly an uphill battle. Some find a way to be successful, but others will roll back. The challenge for students who roll back becomes timing for applications to other schools. You are out of cycle and it truly sets you back in unforeseen ways.

I'm certainly not seeking to bash the program, but I can say that our experience changed my view of the school in a negative manner. The expression "USMMA is the easiest Service Academy to get into, but the hardest to graduate from" is a very accurate statement. The school is challenged on all fronts and I believe much of that to be the result of poor funding from DOT. I don't need to air a ton of negativity here, but if you have questions, please feel free to privately message me.
 
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Do what you can now to establish solid studying skills. It’s too late to learn when you get there next summer. Many of the mids come in were top of their classes back home and maybe a lot came very naturally to them. But as others said the pace is fast, you can find yourself in a hole and not have the time to dig back out. If you don’t know how to really study and stay focused, it’s going to be a continuous struggle - not just in classes but in Sea Year projects too. The mids who graduate overcome a great deal and will be so much stronger for it. As a mom I would cringe at the saying “C’s get degrees” but I have seen how challenging it is and I know mids who graduate are going to be very successful in life. So yes some may fail, but you won’t succeed without trying in the first place. Just go look for pictures of the upperclassmen from last weekend’s ring dance. They have made it through many trials and tribulations so far but those big smiles as they celebrate dipping their rings melts my heart! Good luck!
 
I would add that in addition to study skills, time management skills are important. In that regard, perhaps the most crucial skill is the ability to stay off social media which is a time suck that plebes cannot afford.
 
My DS is currently an upper classman at USMMA and an athlete. He also tutors the "plebe killers." His feedback has been that there are many variables that go into students being set-back or disenrolled, but if a student takes advantage of the academic support and uses time wisely, obtaining that coveted diploma is doable. The school needs more funding from DOT. Years of neglect there with subpar leadership-different thread. I don't necessarily agree with the high dropout rate and changes are needed. However, keep your eye on the prize, the big picture. The job opportunities as a KP grad are endless. Using the GI Bill for grad/professional school could be an option along with accessing military medical care and retirement. Recent grads are making $120K to sail for six months. Signing bonuses are healthy, $30K. A strong camaraderie exists among students and grads because you'll go through it together. KP is certainly not for everybody but I'd just encourage you to research this opportunity in depth before you decide, assuming you receive an appointment. If you're currently a recruited athlete, ask the Coach to connect you with students who are on the team. Have your parents reach out to your state's local parent chapter president from the National Parent Assocation. These people will give you honest, real-time feedback. Lastly, it's helpful to note that the service academies, while providing you with many opportunities that a civilian school will never be able to do, ultimately provides a clear path to serve your country, a high honor, and that alone will create a wonderful camaraderie with others for life.
 
shiner said:
@Iblameej, you have stumbled into one of the best questions I have seen for USMMA. My DS departed USMMA for these reasons - TWICE... I may be only 1 voice, but I can say the situation was very surprising to me. When you hear that 1/3 of the class rolls back to the next year - this is actually normal for USMMA. Every grade level at the school has this challenge because of their model. This is not an 8 semester program like the other schools and it can take 7 years to complete. It is common to have people from every grade to complete the program. The numbers (in particular the freshman class) are so shocking, it is hard to believe this is even possible or allowed without corrective action.

@Academician - I highly encourage you to gain current intel on the availability of extra instruction at USMMA. It is a FAR DIFFERENT situation than USAFA. Quality of instruction, pace of consumption (because of trimester model), and age of instructional staff (see ratemyprofessor for very accurate descriptions). I am a USAFA grad and former USAFA faculty member and can safely say there is no comparison between the academic support services between schools.

USMMA really doesn't do academic probation like that of the other service academies. For us, round 1 saw a failure in chemistry. The roll-back program sends the student home at the end of the impacted trimester. You do not pass go and move forward, you roll backwards. Students are instructed to take the course at a local community college and once they pass, the score is sent back to USMMA and completes the terms and conditions of their re-entry into the program. The student then returns in AUGUST of the next academic year to try again. For Plebes, you do not return with the incoming class. Instead, you show up for the start of the school year. This is probably the worst part because you miss the bonding that occurs during the challenges of indoc. You are branded the kid who failed out last year. Your "classmates" are now upperclassmen. You have no community other than the ~6 that choose to come back. In a perfect world, your roommate is also a turnback. Psychologically, its pretty bad. Then, around the end of the first tri, those new plebes who thought you were scum of the earth come around asking questions because they see impending doom with grades and now understand the reality of their situation.

In our case, DS survived first trimester and we thought all was good. Then, he encountered a problem in a class with only two graded events. He failed the first one and it became mathematically impossible to achieve a passing grade in the course. Side note - are we setting students up for success with situations like this? He was yet again faced with the offer directly from the Superintendent to roll back and join the next plebe class. MIND BLOWING!!! He opted to depart and not return because of how far behind in terms of time/semesters he was from his high school peer group.

The trimester system is required because of the sea time required to graduate. It accelerates academic delivery, and that makes quality of instruction critical. There are a few known poor instructors with tenure who cannot be fired. If you are borderline to begin with, and land in those classes, it is certainly an uphill battle. Some find a way to be successful, but others will roll back. The challenge for students who roll back becomes timing for applications to other schools. You are out of cycle and it truly sets you back in unforeseen ways.

I'm certainly not seeking to bash the program, but I can say that our experience changed my view of the school in a negative manner. The expression "USMMA is the easiest Service Academy to get into, but the hardest to graduate from" is a very accurate statement. The school is challenged on all fronts and I believe much of that to be the result of poor funding from DOT. I don't need to air a ton of negativity here, but if you have questions, please feel free to privately message me.
Click to expand...
Wow!! This setup is counterintuitive to the goal of retention and midshipmen mental health. This seems vastly different than the protocols at the other academies! I’m constantly left w the question why anyone attends KP unless they truly want to be a merchant marine… if it’s another service you’re seeking go to the other academies or consider ROTC.
 
hopefulmominla said:
Wow!! This setup is counterintuitive to the goal of retention and midshipmen mental health. This seems vastly different than the protocols at the other academies! I’m constantly left w the question why anyone attends KP unless they truly want to be a merchant marine… if it’s another service you’re seeking go to the other academies or consider ROTC.
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I have heard, but can't confirm, grads of USMMA have a high % of obtaining flight spots if interested.
 
Pmaclax said:
I have heard, but can't confirm, grads of USMMA have a high % of obtaining flight spots if interested.
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In what service? That seems anti-logical so I’m skeptical. Being that flight spots at most academies are sought after why would another service give a straight from the academy billet to a KP er ? And also in theory if the academic side is less midshipmen friendly at KP wouldn’t you have an easier time making good grades at one of the other academies with more academic supports?? Truly curious
 
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