ACT Score Worrying & New

[MN-Dad-2016]

I think this discussion has about run its course and has certainly veered wide from the intention of the OP, but I have enjoyed this interchange very much and would love to have Christcorp or MN-Dad chime in on this.

So, what say you? Appointment to the Service Academies (including Coast Guard and Merchant Marine) - should that constitute "enlistment in the military"?

I've never been in the military. But my IQ goes all the way up to 100 with google.

"Warrant officer. Petty officer. Sergeant. Sergeant. ... An enlisted rank (also known as an enlisted grade or enlisted rate) is, in some armed services, any rank below that of a commissioned officer. "

So the way I read this is your school is looking to track any rank below a commissioned officer. Therefore no, the Academies would not be considered "enlisted".

 

[Christcorp]

I won't debate the topic any longer as I mentioned previously, but I will answer the questions concerning defining.

To "Enlist" in the military, you must be going in as an "Enlisted Member". Vs a "Commissioned Officer". The main difference is obligation. And ENLISTMENT is a set number of years. Usually 4 years. But there are some who enlist for 6 years. And I think, they USE TO, the army has a 2 year enlistment option. Officers (Commissioned) on the other hand only have an initial obligation based on any training the military provided. e.g. 5 years for attending the academy; 10 for pilot training;. Once the obligation period is over, an officer doesn't "Re-Enlist". Think of it as an "Open-Ended" contract. Just like a civilian job. At any time after the obligatory requirements are met, the officer "OR THE MILITARY", can decide to end the relationship. The enlisted on the other hand has basically contracted themselves for another period of 2, 4, or 6 years.

BUT, as has been discussed a number of times in this thread, and applies to the "Other" discussion that took place. The military has to use a vocabulary that the common citizen is familiar with. Even if the meaning isn't 100% identical to what the military means. After all, the military is trying to recruit "employees" (Another common word) just like other companies are. And they will use whatever "Key Words" or "Catch Phrases" they need to in order to be competitive with the pool of "employees", "Students", etc. that they are trying to "Recruit".

Any cadet or enlisted person with more than one year wearing a uniform knows what I mean. The first or second time they go home on "vacation" (Leave) after being in the military for a year or two, they know what it's like. Talk to your family and friends about wearing ABU's; and going TDY. Or how you're collecting BAS because you're not at your base where there's a Chow Hall. Tell them how excited you are to get to go PCS to your first assignment. And how you have to go to MPF "Military Personnel Flight" to get you "Orders" so you can go to TMO "Traffic Management Office" to have you belongings shipped to your next assignment.

The list goes on. The military has a totally different way of speaking. Many of the words have different meanings than in the civilian world. Just like "English" words in England and the United States can have totally different meanings. The academy is no different when advertising and speaking to perspective applicants/cadets. They will say "Christmas or Spring VACATION" instead of "Leave". They will use words like Blue Chip and Recruited Athlete and signing day to a football player and his family; even though these DON'T EXIST. They will use the work scholarship interchangeably. That's because these are the words most people are familiar with.

Matter of fact, I'll have to look for it, but the last presentation I made at a high school for an appointee, I was "GIVEN" a basic presentation speech. Part of it specifically said not to use the word "Scholarship". It specifically said to use phrases like: "A Package worth approximately $400,000" and similar terms. But again, I'm not debating this topic. I said my piece on it and stand my ground. Simply pointing out, because the question of "Enlisting" was brought up. In the civilian world, a lot of people think ALL MILITARY personnel "ENLISTED". Many schools, because of their profile that they are submitting nationally to universities as well as the department of education and similar; will combine military academy appointees into their "Scholarship" category vs the individual who is paying directly for school. It helps their stats. The military is a different world. It has it's own vocabulary; it's own meaning; and many other difference. But academy cadets "Are In the Military". They are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. They are EMPLOYED by the MILITARY. And because of this, there are a lot of comparisons to civilian life that are used, that aren't quite accurate. But, in order to compete for this labor force; certain terminology must be used so the interested parties have some idea of what they are looking at.

Go to an "Enlistment Recruiters Office" some time. To talk to them will sound just like going to a community college for a "JOB FAIR". They use the vocabulary that potential recruits "Employees" can relate to. If you didn't know better, you'd swear you were being recruited by a head hunting type company for a job.

 

[2018mom]

"Warrant officer. Petty officer. Sergeant. Sergeant. ... An enlisted rank (also known as an enlisted grade or enlisted rate) is, in some armed services, any rank below that of a commissioned officer. "

So the way I read this is your school is looking to track any rank below a commissioned officer. Therefore no, the Academies would not be considered "enlisted".

So what is the rank of a cadet at an academy? They are not commissioned officers until after they graduate. They swear in to the military either on I-day or A-day. (Don't remember, three years was a long time ago) They are in a commissioning program, so what does that make them?

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

I won't debate the topic any longer as I mentioned previously, but I will answer the questions concerning defining.

Matter of fact, I'll have to look for it, but the last presentation I made at a high school for an appointee, I was "GIVEN" a basic presentation speech. Part of it specifically said not to use the word "Scholarship". It specifically said to use phrases like: "A Package worth approximately $400,000"

So your theory is that cadets get a "package". And if someone says it is a "scholarship" because that is how you define it (even the Academies), they do this so that civilians can grasp the meaning. Or cadets are tricked into thinking it is a scholarship because they want to recruit them.

Re: flaunting the topic or value of the scholarship. I have heard schools (and politicians) have gotten nervous about attaching a large value to an appointment because it upsets some taxpayers.

 

[Christcorp]

MN Dad. I said I wasn't going to debate this any longer. You know my position. If you have a specific question, I'll try and give an answer to you. You are free to interpret any way your heart pleases.

2018mom; as for the "Rank" of a cadet, that's a little tricky. Then again, we are talking the military.

A cadet is considered active duty. However; because of commitments and such, their time at the academy does not count towards retirement. However, their rank "Not to be confused with their PAY", is technically between that of Enlisted and Commissioned Officer. If in the Army, it would be between Warrant Officer and Commissioned Officer. Notice the word "Commissioned". Sergeants in the military are ALSO OFFICERS. But they are known as "Non-Commissioned Officers".

Now; there's the REALITY of the situation. If a Cadet is on summer training at an active duty base, I can assure you 100%, that the commander of the squadron that the cadet is participating in, will make it clear that this Cadet won't do ANYTHING unless the Sergeant; and probably even the airman, says it's ok. That's the difference in Rank, Pay, and Responsibility. It is not uncommon, especially in an active military environment, that the person with the greater RESPONSIBILITY is based on experience and capability and not Rank. "We are speaking specific scenarios and not In-General".

In general, rank usually constitutes who's in charge and responsible, etc. But some scenarios, it isn't based on rank. A cadet on summer training at a base is a prime example. Just like once a cadet is "Commissioned". She or he may "Out rank" a Senior NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer), but a 2nd Lt would find him or herself in a ringer (BY THEIR COMMANDER) if they tried to put rank on a Chief Master Sergeant, or probably any Senior NCO. Also, a Crew Chief (Enlisted) says if a plane is going to stay on the ground; not the Pilot. (even though the pilot is an officer and wants to fly it).

This was a very generic answer, but I hope it helped understand it a little better. Rank, Pay, and Responsibility are 3 totally different things.

 

[America Works]

Christcorp, I agress. Rank often implies experience and responsibility, but not always. My flight Capt is still rotating through the squadron so he's often seen shadowing Airmen and NCOs. The Capt may out rank the Airmen, but he doesn't do anything unless he gets the go ahead from on them. [We still respect the rank though]

 

[jl123]

So what is the rank of a cadet at an academy? They are not commissioned officers until after they graduate. They swear in to the military either on I-day or A-day. (Don't remember, three years was a long time ago) They are in a commissioning program, so what does that make them?

My knowledge is primarily army, but I assume the air force and navy have a similar regulations. For army personnel, AR 600-20, Army Command Policy clarifies that the rank of Cadet is subordinate to that of Commissioned and Warrant Officer and senior to Non-Commissioned Officer (technically).

Cadets salute officers, but are normally not saluted by enlisted personnel. An exception to this may occur during summer training when cadets assume junior officer duties under the supervision of other officers and NCO's . During this time NCO's and other enlisted personnel will salute the cadet if informed to do so by the chain of command. Professional NCO's make every effort to make this a beneficial training experience and will show the cadet all the customs and courtesies they would an officer. However, it is understood that although the cadet is acting as a junior officer, the NCO is ultimately in charge and responsible for what occurs.

 

[BlueSkies24]

I read most of the posts here, and I’d like to share my personal experience with the ACT. Now, I started off with a 23 on my first ACT during my Sophmore year. I felt crushed by this because of the fact I let down my friend’s, family’s, and my own expectations. I needed and wanted better, so I started to prepare. I bought the ACT Prep Black Book along with the book you need to study with that and got down to work. This book provides you with the foundation of taking the test and the practice you need to HAVE to conquer every section. After acquiring the new skills from the prep book, apply them in actual ACT practice tests (tests made by ACT, further explained in book). Then, when you take some practice tests, make sure you find a formal environment (how it would be during the real thing) and place yourself in the timed conditions. This personally enabled me to get used to the stress of the time crunch. Then, just rinse and repeat.

I don’t want to repeat what many of people have already said about hard work, but I did it a practice section just about every day for a couple of months (breaks sporadically). It’s not going to be fun. Eventually though, all the hard work will pay off. After taking the ACT EIGHT times and much more practice tests, I blew my previous best score (29) out of the sky*GO AIR FORCE* and scored a 33.


This strategy is what suited me, but maybe not for someone else. Experiment and find out what you need to do personally to reach your goals.

Scoring high on the ACT was my OWN pursuit, but my dad would sometimes tell my siblings and me that every hour you study, your getting payed a thousand dollars/new opportunities because of scholarships and stuff. It is a pretty cool analogy when you think about it.

 

[usn907]

I'm a soon to be junior in high school. I've taken the ACT this summer and got a 22. This is worrisome because I am shooting for a 31. What are some tips for raising my score? I was thinking about trying the SAT to see if it is any easier. Pls Help!!! Being a fighter pilot has been a dream of mine since as long as I can remember. I currently play varsity football. I have 4.25 weighted gpa. I am in JROTC. Captain of the Cadet Challenge team. I'm in NHS and plan to attend Boy's State and JCLC. I also volunteer at church every other Sunday plus at other events but not sure if that counts as community hours. I also plan to run for an officer position on student council. Any other things should I aspire to do? I know this controversial but does being African American really help in admission?

What were your subject scores? If one of your scores was significantly lower than the rest and caused your overall score to drop, I’d make sure you spend a lot of time studying for that. Like other said, I’d definitely recommend giving the SAT a shot - many claim it’s not as difficult to get a respectable score. Khan Academy has free SAT prep that has full free tests and individual study plans - bumped me up about 160 points after a month studying with it.
In regards to volunteer work, I would definitely recommend bulking that up a little. Volunteering at church does count, but if you did volunteer tutoring, or maybe a volunteer football workshop for kids, or even just helping out at the local animal shelter for a few weekends it would round out that part of your application.
In regards to being African-American, I would say that no, solely being African-American does not boost your chances. Everyone is expected to meet the same standard criteria, and they won’t change the standards based on race. However, my ALO interview this year focused heavily on adversity - my interview ALO stated that the Academy has noticed that students from diverse backgrounds who have faced adversity are more likely to succeed at the Academy. Therefore, my ALO wanted to highlight that I’m female, with divorced parents, and a special needs sibling.

 

[usn907]

I've also seen some with a 27 get an appointment.

The cadet we sponsor calls those cadets "athletes."

Many people are getting very worked up about this post. Nowhere in this post did anyone refer to a “dumb jock.” A 27 ACT is considered a ‘good’ score, and no one would refer to someone with a 27 ACT as “dumb.” Yes, it is under the Academy average. Yes, most everyone at the Academy could be considered an “athlete.” I’m assuming the original post is referring to recruited athletes - it is an indisputable FACT that recruited athletes are occasionally held to lower standards for academics, because they excel significantly in a sport. Two of my three ALOs and every Academy grad I’ve spoken to have mentioned that if a coach at the Academy wants you, and you qualify, you’re in. If a coach realllly wants you, and you just don’t meet any of the standards, they may offer you a Prep School slot to prepare you for the rigorous academics at the Academy. However, many recruited athletes who apply to the Academy don’t need to have any standards blurred for them, because they’re already meeting the standards academically, as these are the people who are drawn to the Academy. For example, I have a friend in his 3C year st USAFA: salutatorian of HS class, 4.3+ GPA, 29 ACT, recruited athlete. He likely would’ve been able to get in on his own merit, but being an athlete secured the spot for him with an LOA. Other example: Academy student in 1C year, 3.2 GPA, 28 ACT, 1310 SAT, very few ec’s outside of diving. Recruited athlete. Still has decent stats, but not quite meeting the standard or the average in some areas.

 

[Stealth_81]

Many people are getting very worked up about this post.

Not really anymore since the thread is 6 months old.

Stealth_81

 

[BlueSkies24]

I didn’t want to bring this thread back. I just couldn’t find any solid advice for OP about some actual prep books.

 

[usn907]

Many people are getting very worked up about this post.

Not really anymore since the thread is 6 months old.

Stealth_81

I only saw this post because it was edited a few hours ago, so assumed that it was fairly recent. Either way, people were* getting worked up about it.