Advantages/ Disadvantages of VMI/Citadel/Norwich Army ROTC

Jmazziot

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I am honored and beyond excited to say that I was recently named a 4 year AROTC scholarship winner to both VMI, The Citadel, and Norwich University. The next step in the process is deciding between these three phenomenal institutions. My question is that, for those of you who have attended these schools, why did you end up choosing one over the other two? Also, I am currently an applicant for USNA and USCGA. If I accept this scholarship, is it still possible me to accept an appointment to one of the academies?
Thanks
 
The SMC's are very understanding about appointments to SA's taking priority. My DS was accepted to El Cid and even received a prompt refund of his deposit when he decided to attend a State school close to home.

Have you visited any or all of these schools?
 
The SMC's are very understanding about appointments to SA's taking priority. My DS was accepted to El Cid and even received a prompt refund of his deposit when he decided to attend a State school close to home.

Have you visited any or all of these schools?
That's good to hear! I have visited both VMI and The Citadel but have not been able to visit Norwich.
 
These three are as different as they are similar.
My son attends Norwich.
Two pluses of Norwich are; a wider range of majors than the other two and ROTC scholarship holders receive the I.D.White scholarship which provides room and board.
He chose Norwich because of it's location and the major he wanted.
 
All three are SMC's.

VMI: 100% corps of cadets, no other students. Smallest corps and the most difficult to receive appointment to. Lexington: Small town atmosphere
The Citadel: Larger Corps of Cadets. Almost no non-corps students except for night students. Charleston: fabulous midsize coastal atmosphere.
Norwich. Majority of students in Corps of Cadets with some undergrad non-corps students and thus a more "normal" college feel at times. More isolated town. Great area for ski/boarders.

My DS visited both VMI (for a one week soccer camp), and The Citadel, but not Norwich. He preferred El Cid over VMI strictly because of the "feel" of the campus, the attitude of the cadets he met and the town of Charleston. But he ultimately chose a state school for financial reasons.

A very important point is choosing a school that you can afford even if you lose the scholarship. If you cannot afford to continue at that school if you are somehow unable to commission, how would that feel?

This is why my DS chose the State school. If he did not receive the AROTC scholarship (he did), or he loses the scholarship, he can still afford to stay all four years.

As a financial planner I have to say that student debt is to be avoided if at all possible!
 
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.......Now, about my 401K....

Look for index fund choices in your 401(k). If your employer does not offer index funds, demand it! Some employers actually receive revenue sharing, which is kind of a "kick-back" to offset the administrative expenses the employer incurs. Of course who makes up for this? The employees do, in the form of more expensive investment choices! (grrrr.)

Build a balanced blend of equities and fixed income index funds that fits with your risk tolerance. The employer is required to supply educational tools to help you do this. Almost no one takes advantage of them!

Okay, off the soap box.
 
I am honored and beyond excited to say that I was recently named a 4 year AROTC scholarship winner to both VMI, The Citadel, and Norwich University. The next step in the process is deciding between these three phenomenal institutions. My question is that, for those of you who have attended these schools, why did you end up choosing one over the other two? Also, I am currently an applicant for USNA and USCGA. If I accept this scholarship, is it still possible me to accept an appointment to one of the academies?
Thanks

Congratulations on your award of a 4 year AROTC scholarship and acceptance to these 3 schools. I can comment on The Citadel. For 3 and 4 year ROTC scholarship winners, who meet minimum SAT and GPA requirements, the school awards an additional stipend. Your most important decision should be which academic major you choose. About 40% of this year's entering class enrolled in one of the 3 engineering programs in the School of Engineering. Another 25% enrolled in the Business School, and the rest in other science or liberal arts. You should spend time talking to the Dean of the School you wish to enroll in. The Citadel is a small school - 2,300 undergraduates, so the Dean of each school should be able to talk to you and give you an idea of what you can expect, academic support and what graduates do after college - i.e. their success in getting jobs and entering grad school, military commissions, etc. If you don't feel comfortable with the answers, you may not feel good about enrolling in that major or school. Best of luck to you.
 
Since you have visited VMI and Citadel you may have an idea of which felt more like "home" than the other. My son is at VMI and loves it, I cannot really speak of the other schools as we have no experience with them.

He chose VMI because if it's strict honor code and because it is all cadets, the requirement to live on post and the feeling of brotherhood that it seemed to exude. The small class sizes was also a draw for him. There are generally only 500 per class hear although this year 506 Matriculated. It is not easy. 495 Matriculated in my son's class, 435 broke out.

At VMI the entire Corp of Cadets march to breakfast and supper together as well as attend all home football games as a Corp.

There is a chapel on post with a Christian non-denominational service each Sunday but local churches also have shuttles to bring rats and cadets to services.

I don't think you can make a bad choice with any of the three, it is just a matter of which is better for you.
 
Congratulations!! I agree, all good choices!! You really can't go wrong with any choice you make!
I would ask the myself the following questions.
1. Does the school have the major I want? If all schools have your major, how does the school rank within that major? All engineering programs and/or nursing programs are not created equal!
2. Do you like the location? How far away are from home? This 4 years of college are likely the last you will be home for any weekends or breaks, bc after college who knows where you will be? Is that important to you? What does the location of the school offer you?
3. Did you get a "feel" for the military at the schools? Is your gut saying anything?
So excited for you!! Make sure you let us know what you choose!!
 
Although this is an older post, I thought I would add to the discussion. My son received a 4-year Army ROTC scholarship to an in-state school in which he successfully (and quite easily) transferred to Norwich University. He'd always had a preference for an Academy or an SMC. Prior to receiving his ROTC scholarship, we had visited both the Citadel and Norwich. This gives some of our experiences. Early on my son had a preconceived bias toward Citadel - probably because it seemed to have more 'branding' power amongst his peers (other than the Academies of course). Whenever he mentioned 'Citadel', friends and relatives recognized the name, whereas far fewer had even heard of Norwich. That makes a big difference for many teenagers. For whatever reason, he showed little interest in VMI. We visited Citadel first. The timing was such that we arrived for a tour during the first week of Fall classes. Unfortunately, that meant they didn't offer tours of rooms or accommodations. We'd visited other active colleges and academies prior to this, so we found that a bit unusual and disappointing. If we had known that we would have changed our scheduling. While we were there, we were introduced to his assigned admissions officer - a first-year employee that had just graduated from the Citadel. For us, our experience with him became another 'tell' about our experience. Over the next several months we made several calls and left voicemails with a variety of typical questions. He never once returned our calls - ever. One time, we called the general admissions number and asked for him through an admissions operator and finally got through to him. Following that though, we never heard from him again and he never returned a call. (very, very weird). Strangely, during our visit, we also took notice of how few minorities there were within the knob ranks. Very few! Now, I'm sure there must have been more elsewhere on campus, but I'm telling you we saw many platoons out marching, memorizing, getting yelled at etc - but we saw very few minorities and that troubled us. About a month later, someone pointed us to some videos and articles on the internet regarding recent racist incidents at the school. Coincidentally this was taking place around the time of the Charlottesville incidents in 2017, so it naturally magnified our impressions. Ultimately this became the 'kiss of death' for us regarding the Citadel. Now I KNOW there are many (MANY!) who have had fantastic experiences at Citadel, and I want to quickly add we just might have had an unusual and particularly bad experience. But, that was our experience. In the early spring of 2018, we finally went to visit Norwich. Honestly, but that point we were both just 'checking a box'. He was planning to attend Purdue Engineering if he wasn't accepted at an Academy. But, the Norwich experience surprised both of us in two key ways. First, my son loved the campus and the diversity. The ROTC commander was very impressive and he had inspired students and parents. Second, Norwich has an unbelievably generous financial aid program. (Citadel only offered us some meager FASFA loans, with no scholarships). Even prior to receiving the ROTC scholarships, Norwich had already offered enough scholarship money to cover about 1/2 their private school cost (which is currently about $60K/yr). However, after receiving the 4-year Army ROTC scholarship, they 're-tooled' his package such that he was offered 98% coverage! I was blown away. Academically, the Citadel and Norwich both had a reasonable number of majors. By contrast, VMI's were very limited. The Citadel's nursing program had just started, whereas Norwich's program has been established for many years. The Norwich Admissions officer was in frequent contact with us and made sure we had answers to all our questions. They called us far more than we called them. In the end, he was not accepted by an Academy, and Norwich had impressed him so much that it easily took the pole position amongst his other choices. Parotting some other comments on this site, I would strongly encourage interested parties to visit each campus to get their own 'feel' and make their own determination. I could not have predicted our outcome based on Internet websites and the application process alone. Visting is a powerful experience for both parents and students alike.
 
Sidha21 - thank you for posting your thoughts on visiting The Citadel. I have passed your comments regarding the lack of response to your calls and questions to the Admissions Office. They agree your experience in this regard is unsatisfactory, and will make an effort to understand the circumstances.

As far as your comments about how few "minorities" you observed that were in the Freshmen Class during your campus visit, I am surprised that if this was indeed the major criteria for your son that he did not make further inquiry into the facts. This past Fall's class at The Citadel included 27% ethinic minorities. Overall the minority population at The Citadel is not much different than the population at Norwich (Citadel 23.7% vs Norwich 26.6%). See: http://www.my.citadel.edu/root/get-to-know-the-citadel-class-of-2021

As far as student aid, The Citadel, as a public college, offers less in terms of merit aid versus financial need to incoming cadets, especially those from out of state.
 
Sidha21 - thank you for posting your thoughts on visiting The Citadel. I have passed your comments regarding the lack of response to your calls and questions to the Admissions Office. They agree your experience in this regard is unsatisfactory, and will make an effort to understand the circumstances.

As far as your comments about how few "minorities" you observed that were in the Freshmen Class during your campus visit, I am surprised that if this was indeed the major criteria for your son that he did not make further inquiry into the facts. This past Fall's class at The Citadel included 27% ethinic minorities. Overall the minority population at The Citadel is not much different than the population at Norwich (Citadel 23.7% vs Norwich 26.6%). See: http://www.my.citadel.edu/root/get-to-know-the-citadel-class-of-2021

As far as student aid, The Citadel, as a public college, offers less in terms of merit aid versus financial need to incoming cadets, especially those from out of state.

Thanks Glen, I agree our experiences might have been unique - (in fact, with regard to minorities, we really, really hoped it was). Our 'one-day perception' of a 'minority' issue at the school was troublesome, but to be fair it did not include a deep dive into statistics. The Citadel should not be impugned by our one-day observation. We researched each school the best we could through internet and conversations with former students and we are quite confident the Citadel is a fine institution. Each student and family will have their own unique experience and lenses with which to evaluate. Unfortunately, we can only work with the brief experiences we have during the brief application process. Temporal political climates can weigh in as well. With regard to our experiences (or lack of experiences) with admissions, this was an impression built over a period of several months, not just on a single campus tour. It's hard to know if our experiences with admissions were born out of a new systemic issue at the school or if it was just one mediocre admissions officer (Northeast). Either way, I seriously doubt our experience with this officer was unique. The Citadel has been around a long time - so we suspect the problem will be dealt with over time. Regarding finances - that makes perfect sense. Each school does what it can. For those of us who walk into the application process from a naive (and initially uninformed) perspective though - the difference in financial aid was nothing short of stunning, to say the very least.
 
Although this is an older post, I thought I would add to the discussion. My son received a 4-year Army ROTC scholarship to an in-state school in which he successfully (and quite easily) transferred to Norwich University. He'd always had a preference for an Academy or an SMC. Prior to receiving his ROTC scholarship, we had visited both the Citadel and Norwich. This gives some of our experiences. Early on my son had a preconceived bias toward Citadel - probably because it seemed to have more 'branding' power amongst his peers (other than the Academies of course). Whenever he mentioned 'Citadel', friends and relatives recognized the name, whereas far fewer had even heard of Norwich. That makes a big difference for many teenagers. For whatever reason, he showed little interest in VMI. We visited Citadel first. The timing was such that we arrived for a tour during the first week of Fall classes. Unfortunately, that meant they didn't offer tours of rooms or accommodations. We'd visited other active colleges and academies prior to this, so we found that a bit unusual and disappointing. If we had known that we would have changed our scheduling. While we were there, we were introduced to his assigned admissions officer - a first-year employee that had just graduated from the Citadel. For us, our experience with him became another 'tell' about our experience. Over the next several months we made several calls and left voicemails with a variety of typical questions. He never once returned our calls - ever. One time, we called the general admissions number and asked for him through an admissions operator and finally got through to him. Following that though, we never heard from him again and he never returned a call. (very, very weird). Strangely, during our visit, we also took notice of how few minorities there were within the knob ranks. Very few! Now, I'm sure there must have been more elsewhere on campus, but I'm telling you we saw many platoons out marching, memorizing, getting yelled at etc - but we saw very few minorities and that troubled us. About a month later, someone pointed us to some videos and articles on the internet regarding recent racist incidents at the school. Coincidentally this was taking place around the time of the Charlottesville incidents in 2017, so it naturally magnified our impressions. Ultimately this became the 'kiss of death' for us regarding the Citadel. Now I KNOW there are many (MANY!) who have had fantastic experiences at Citadel, and I want to quickly add we just might have had an unusual and particularly bad experience. But, that was our experience. In the early spring of 2018, we finally went to visit Norwich. Honestly, but that point we were both just 'checking a box'. He was planning to attend Purdue Engineering if he wasn't accepted at an Academy. But, the Norwich experience surprised both of us in two key ways. First, my son loved the campus and the diversity. The ROTC commander was very impressive and he had inspired students and parents. Second, Norwich has an unbelievably generous financial aid program. (Citadel only offered us some meager FASFA loans, with no scholarships). Even prior to receiving the ROTC scholarships, Norwich had already offered enough scholarship money to cover about 1/2 their private school cost (which is currently about $60K/yr). However, after receiving the 4-year Army ROTC scholarship, they 're-tooled' his package such that he was offered 98% coverage! I was blown away. Academically, the Citadel and Norwich both had a reasonable number of majors. By contrast, VMI's were very limited. The Citadel's nursing program had just started, whereas Norwich's program has been established for many years. The Norwich Admissions officer was in frequent contact with us and made sure we had answers to all our questions. They called us far more than we called them. In the end, he was not accepted by an Academy, and Norwich had impressed him so much that it easily took the pole position amongst his other choices. Parotting some other comments on this site, I would strongly encourage interested parties to visit each campus to get their own 'feel' and make their own determination. I could not have predicted our outcome based on Internet websites and the application process alone. Visting is a powerful experience for both parents and students alike.
This was exactly our experience this spring. We start Norwich in August.
 
Sidha21 - tuition discounting (often called scholarships) is predominante at private colleges in order to shape the profile of students they desire to enroll. Private colleges have the ability to discount across their entire student body as there are no restrictions on tuition charged resident vs non-resident students. Despite this advantage, discounting from published tuition, room, board and other fees has risen to an alarming rate at all private colleges except the Ivys and other elite colleges. See the latest data on tuition at private colleges. https://www.insidehighered.com/news...es-increase-tuition-discounting-again-2016-17

Public colleges also discount to some degree, but are largely restricted due to state laws and regulations. Best of luck to your son - sounds like he has found the right school for himself.
 
Hello All, congratulations on your scholarships. My DS received a Provost Scholarship from Norwich, then an AFROTC 4 year Type 7. His first and only choice has been Norwich, he didn't even want to apply to local schools or the Service Academies. We converted the Type 7 to a Type 2 due to the verbiage, but am I to understand Norwich may have discounted the tuition to allow for keeping the Type 7? We live in Mississippi and our ROTC schools would have been Mississippi State or the University of Mississippi (Ole Miss). I am assuming I will be on the hook for the difference in the first year's tuition. Anyone have similar experience or can offer any insight?
 
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