Hello and Thanks for the opportunity to participate in this forum. My son is in his 3rd yr. in college going for a Tech Major, Aerospace Engineering. He got an EA and went through FT this past summer, so he is now a POC. Last night he broke down to us telling us that he doesn't think he can continue pursuing engineering. He is taking this semester Calc 3, Phy 2, Statics and Statistics and off course ROTC and he is a Flight Leader too. His final goal is to be selected for Pilot, so he picked an engineering degree just to be more likely to be given a pilot slot, but not really because he wants to be an engineer. We've told him from the beginning that to us it makes more sense to get an easier major to be able to have excellent grades for a better chance to a pilot slot, rather than struggle with this engineering degree and end up with poor grades. So any way the question in his mind and ours, and he will off course make appointment to talk to cadre, but I'm so worry I need to try to find some answers already. So the question is: What is going to happen to his Tech EA if he changes to Non-Tech Major? AFROTC is the biggest part of his life, he is a very devoted cadet. I will appreciate your reply. Thanks.
AFROTC POC Cadet with Tech EA, changing to Non-TechMajor...Implications?
- Thread starter daney
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AlphaAlphaSigma
5-Year Member
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He signed a contract that states he intends to graduate with a technical major. Breaking the contract has serious consequences and would most likely lead to disenrollment from ROTC. I'm surprised that he is going through junior year still taking what is weed out classes for engineering. I would tell him to look around for easier technical majors if engineering is not for him. Switching from tech to nontech is an conditional event and three of those do lead to disenrollment.
I agree with the above ^
Additionally, with all the classes that he has taken thus far, it will further affect his projected graduation date. I'm not sure if pursuing engineering would've given him an advantage to being a pilot. After all, going active duty, you will listen to the Air Force and do what you are told. I believe there's a high demand for engineering or cyber, so in a way, being a non-tech might've yielded better results.
As always stated on this forum, don't pick a major for extra advantage/points. We have had cadets lose scholarships switching to non-tech. It's four years of your life before going AD, and if you take or have no interest in your major, it'd be all a waste. Commissioning is the end goal, but to commission you must have a degree, and to get a degree you must do well and take interest in that particular subject area.
Additionally, with all the classes that he has taken thus far, it will further affect his projected graduation date. I'm not sure if pursuing engineering would've given him an advantage to being a pilot. After all, going active duty, you will listen to the Air Force and do what you are told. I believe there's a high demand for engineering or cyber, so in a way, being a non-tech might've yielded better results.
As always stated on this forum, don't pick a major for extra advantage/points. We have had cadets lose scholarships switching to non-tech. It's four years of your life before going AD, and if you take or have no interest in your major, it'd be all a waste. Commissioning is the end goal, but to commission you must have a degree, and to get a degree you must do well and take interest in that particular subject area.
what he might ask for is an extension. If he is in a 4 year program, he can ask for up to a year extension and spread out the courses. DS asked for a 6 month extension the second semester of his freshman year and was actually granted a year extension by AFHQ. It has allowed him to spread out those courses a little and allowed him to keep grades up. He is only taking 6 months of the granted year. He did this before he was POC though, I have no idea what impact that has on the extension request.
It's usually quite easy to transfer to another tech degree, and there are some easy "tech" degrees out there. Sometimes they will even allow the swap with scholarships to non tech. Honestly he/she should be fine especially just to commission. If he's not on scholarship I would not worry, if he is then you could end up with a bill, no bill but have to start paying, or best they keep everything the same. Have him go talk to cadre to get options.
Thanks, I like your reply...but it seems that you are the only one in this forum that thinks it is possible to change to a non-tech major and even to be an easy process. Him and I looked at the Tech Majors list and none seem to be "easy" majors, plus almost all are engineerings, then there is Mathematics, Chemistry, Physics, Architecture, Meteorology and Computer Science. Is there a revised Tech Majors list?
Every school has their own tech majors that AF codes as tech in some form usually. For instance some aviation degrees are tech or non tech, mine was stamped with a generic AF 40TY code or something similar. Which was aero science. Don't forget you can cross-town. There are literally management degrees that are "tech". He needs to talk to counsellors look at school options and also involve cadre, I'm sure he's not the first and they should point him in the right direction.
Also putting this separate, he needs to ask cadre for help, this should have been his first stop for information. They are there to direct him and teach him, don't be afraid. Worst case they say hey sorry if you do that there are these issues. Lastly, your degree has very little change on pilot slots in afrotc.
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@daney
I'm with the other posters in that the course list you provided (calc 3, phys II, statics, and statistics) concerns me. I took most of those freshman year. 3 of those are guaranteed pre-req's for his major specific classes which he should be taking 2-3 of each semester past sophomore year. This indicates he is probably seriously behind and may not be on track to graduate with that degree in the first place which is not good for him and a big oversite on the cadre side as they are supposed to meet with cadets to ensure they are on track every semester starting day 1.
AE is a difficult major, especially if you dont love it. Maybe instead of looking for an "easy" tech major, look for something he's interested in/decent at. At this point switching to non-tech from tech is practically impossible. Who knows if the reason he got an EA in the first place over cadet X is because he was a tech major? The AF is hurting for ppl rn, that's about the only chance you have on that front. The other concern is if he switches, even if it's to another tech major, will he be able to graduate in time? Hard to say, his academic adviser can help with that. But 3rd year 1st semester is the latest a major switch should happen since, depending on what you're switching to, there's typically very little overlap so instead of having just 2 more years to graduate you'd have 3. He'd be switching a semester past the "you really shouldnt switch this late but there may be a way to do it" end point.
He may have to push through the degree to get the end goal of a commission. Mechanical Engineering is the basic engineering degree, doesnt specialize so there's more flexibility. Still difficult but often considered to be one of the easier engineering. Switching to a science(physics, bio, etc) major at this point probably cant happen, they have zero overlap with engineering and would be hard to jump into academically. There's industrial engineering, which most ppl jokingly call imaginary engineering because they dont actually make anything, they just imagine it. But it's a seriously useful major, combines the business and tech sides, they get great jobs after college. It's heavily statistics based so if he's into stats he may like it.
Mech Eng may be the easiest to change to b/c it overlaps with AE decently.
I really think he's going to have a rough time with this, hopefully the commander helps him out. Good luck to you.
I'm with the other posters in that the course list you provided (calc 3, phys II, statics, and statistics) concerns me. I took most of those freshman year. 3 of those are guaranteed pre-req's for his major specific classes which he should be taking 2-3 of each semester past sophomore year. This indicates he is probably seriously behind and may not be on track to graduate with that degree in the first place which is not good for him and a big oversite on the cadre side as they are supposed to meet with cadets to ensure they are on track every semester starting day 1.
AE is a difficult major, especially if you dont love it. Maybe instead of looking for an "easy" tech major, look for something he's interested in/decent at. At this point switching to non-tech from tech is practically impossible. Who knows if the reason he got an EA in the first place over cadet X is because he was a tech major? The AF is hurting for ppl rn, that's about the only chance you have on that front. The other concern is if he switches, even if it's to another tech major, will he be able to graduate in time? Hard to say, his academic adviser can help with that. But 3rd year 1st semester is the latest a major switch should happen since, depending on what you're switching to, there's typically very little overlap so instead of having just 2 more years to graduate you'd have 3. He'd be switching a semester past the "you really shouldnt switch this late but there may be a way to do it" end point.
He may have to push through the degree to get the end goal of a commission. Mechanical Engineering is the basic engineering degree, doesnt specialize so there's more flexibility. Still difficult but often considered to be one of the easier engineering. Switching to a science(physics, bio, etc) major at this point probably cant happen, they have zero overlap with engineering and would be hard to jump into academically. There's industrial engineering, which most ppl jokingly call imaginary engineering because they dont actually make anything, they just imagine it. But it's a seriously useful major, combines the business and tech sides, they get great jobs after college. It's heavily statistics based so if he's into stats he may like it.
Mech Eng may be the easiest to change to b/c it overlaps with AE decently.
I really think he's going to have a rough time with this, hopefully the commander helps him out. Good luck to you.
Have him try to find an easier tech degree...perhaps industrial engineering could be a great alternative; yes he'll still have to do the math classes, but the upper level courses will be more managerial/business in nature. Or look into "digital computer design" if his university offers it...that's what I do, and while it's no longer considered tech at my school (got grandfathered in), it may be an option to look into.
Final option is just really buckle down...i dropped engineering because I wanted to keep a good GPA and really didn't like the material, but there are plenty that work hard and do fine with it.
Final option is just really buckle down...i dropped engineering because I wanted to keep a good GPA and really didn't like the material, but there are plenty that work hard and do fine with it.
Sleeplessnights
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My son was an Aerospace Engineering major while in AFROTC. He (and almost all the engineers in his entering cadet class) took 5 years to graduate, so it is possible to get the extra year. However, he already had his graduation date set before he signed his contract.
Good luck to your son.
Pima
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I am not going to lie...I glanced over the responses here..it was the typical answers. So forgive me if I missed these points.
I can fill this up with x + y = z
I won't
Here are the facts in my opinion.
1. He is now contracted as a POC
~ He needs to talk to them
2. UPT board meets in Feb.
~ CGPA is part of the score.
~~ Changing to non-tech matters squat because by the time AFROTC HQ changes him to non-tech the cadre would have sent him to the board as tech.
3. My concern/conversation if he wants to be a PILOT would be:
~ How many flight hours
~~ I will not lie to you..no hours and it is an uphill battle, not only to get UPT, but also at UPT.
~ AFOQT score
~ SFT ranking
4. He will have to rank RPA/CSO or ABM.
I can fill this up with x + y = z
I won't
Here are the facts in my opinion.
1. He is now contracted as a POC
~ He needs to talk to them
2. UPT board meets in Feb.
~ CGPA is part of the score.
~~ Changing to non-tech matters squat because by the time AFROTC HQ changes him to non-tech the cadre would have sent him to the board as tech.
3. My concern/conversation if he wants to be a PILOT would be:
~ How many flight hours
~~ I will not lie to you..no hours and it is an uphill battle, not only to get UPT, but also at UPT.
~ AFOQT score
~ SFT ranking
4. He will have to rank RPA/CSO or ABM.