Air Force Reserve: Good idea?

[dagger]

This is absolutely not possible. No amount of entitlements would put you anywhere near an O-2 or O-3 pay grade. O-2s would have somewhere between $60-70,000 annually and O-3 would have $80-90,000 annually. The only enlisted entitlements that are higher than an officer's is BAS and the measly clothing allowance and those are nowhere near enough to even put you within shooting range of their pay.

Well if you count COLA + BAS + BAH + BASE + SPECIAL DUTY + HAZARD + the benefits of it all being tax free when deployed... Of course, that's still a ways off from $60k+...

 

[Remember_This_Day]

This is absolutely not possible. No amount of entitlements would put you anywhere near an O-2 or O-3 pay grade. O-2s would have somewhere between $60-70,000 annually and O-3 would have $80-90,000 annually. The only enlisted entitlements that are higher than an officer's is BAS and the measly clothing allowance and those are nowhere near enough to even put you within shooting range of their pay.

really now? No amount of entitlements? A 5 day mission I can EASILY pull down $700~. Then throw ontop of that hostile fire pay, my aviation pay, and the fact that I have had tax free since Aug of last year and I know staffs and techs I make more than as an E-3. Our staffs and techs can fly as much as me, and have a higher base pay to begin with (A MSGT in my squadron who came to us from chareslton was TDY 300~ days last year thats a lot of per diem) To put it in an even better perspective I did a 10 day stage in Germany that netted me 1.2k ON TOP of my pay AND tax free. Your seriously underestimating per Diem for aviators. Although it probably wouldn't add up to an extra 60k for an airman to close the gap, I'd say the amount of responsibility VS the extra 20k after its all said and done is worth it.

There is no point in trying to get "enlisted experience" before becoming an officer. Most of the actual enlisted experience would only come as an NCO anyway. As a junior enlisted, your only experience would be taking out trash, picking weeds, cleaning toilets and doing grunt work. All you'll take away from being prior enlisted is that being enlisted is nowhere near as good as being an officer in every aspect. And that girl who enlisted to wait for an OTS board made a mistake. OTS selection is worse for enlisted than it is for a civilian. She lowered her chances by enlisting. There are ROTC programs for people earning a graduate degree. This would've been a far better option than enlisting.

She didn't make a mistake because she wanted to serve and not wait around. She enjoys her job now and is just waiting for a board, she's fine with that. And that's what I'm getting at. Some people are totally done being an E for life. Otherwise we'd never have chiefs. Oh and my E experience so far has not been "grunt work. ". Sure if there is a task that doesn't require a lot of brainpower and they don't want to do it: they call an airman. But to say a majority of my labor has been trash, etc? Hell no. My time as an E was well spent and I wouldn't give up anything for it. If I could go back and go straight ROTC, AFA, etc I'd still enlist. Call me an outlier, or blame my job for my outlook, but whatever.

 

[Remember_This_Day]

To clarify. . .

I'm not trying to come across as hostile if that's how it's sounding and yea, I realize your a prior E too.

 

[airman]

There is no point in trying to get "enlisted experience" before becoming an officer. Most of the actual enlisted experience would only come as an NCO anyway. As a junior enlisted, your only experience would be taking out trash, picking weeds, cleaning toilets and doing grunt work. All you'll take away from being prior enlisted is that being enlisted is nowhere near as good as being an officer in every aspect.

Sounds like you had a horrible enlisted experience. Also, being junior enlisted would fall under the enlisted experience. I started picking up leadership roles around the my squadron as an E-3. Probably cause I always took out the trash, cleaned the toilets, and made sure there were no weeds in the same manner that I handled my job. That's just me though.

 

[Christcorp]

Some enlisted ranks can make more than an O-1 through O-3, but that isn't the lower few ranks. For this discussion, suffice it to say that an O-1 through O-3 makes more than becoming enlisted.

That's not to say that every military member wants to be an officer. I myself have multiple degrees and had the opportunity to apply for OCS, at the encouragement of my commander and group commander. I personally happened to like the life I had and the AFSC that I had.

But this discussion is about young people becoming commissioned. If we are talking about a teen coming out of high school who wants to serve in the military as a commissioned officer, the obvious choices are the academy or ROTC. If for whatever reason the individual doesn't get selected for either, they should continue with their college education and keep trying for the academy or ROTC. College is not hard to get into and can be affordable if you know what you're doing. If they make it to the 3rd year of college, they should plan on finishing their college and applying for OCS.

If they still can't get selected for a commission, then they have to decide how bad they want to serve their country. At this point, they could check the guard and reserve units for an officer slot that they can apply for. After that, enlisted is an option. Again; it all depends on what you want; now, as well as 4-5 years from now once you've graduated college. Believe it or not, there's a lot of enlisted military members with college degrees who simply didn't want to become commissioned officers. Many felt that they could contribute more, in the way that they wanted to contribute, as an enlisted man/woman.

But what is most important is getting your education. Those college degrees are what's going to open doors for you. Even if you're enlisted, having a college degree improves your chances for promotions. Especially in the senior NCO ranks. It also helps in the "Below the Zone" opportunities. But for the argument of this discussion, I have to admit that going enlisted; whether Active Duty, Guard, or Reserve is a very difficult method of becoming commissioned. Working an 8-10 hour day, every day, and trying to get your college degree done at the same time is very difficult. I know, because I did it. This was before Al Gore invented the internet and online courses, but it's still not that easy. Applying for the academy, ROTC, or OCS is also difficult if you're enlisted. It can be done, but there are a lot of variables in getting approval.

Anyway; best of luck to you. Hope it all works out for you.

 

[ColinBlueMoon]

really now? No amount of entitlements? A 5 day mission I can EASILY pull down $700~. Then throw ontop of that hostile fire pay, my aviation pay, and the fact that I have had tax free since Aug of last year and I know staffs and techs I make more than as an E-3. Our staffs and techs can fly as much as me, and have a higher base pay to begin with. To put it in an even better perspective I did a 10 day stage in Germany that netted me 1.2k ON TOP of my pay AND tax free. Your seriously underestimating per Diem for aviators. Although it probably wouldn't add up to an extra 60k for an airman to close the gap, I'd say the amount of responsibility VS the extra 20k after its all said and done is worth it.

A Pilot/Nav/ABM doing the same things as you would still make far more. I was an aviator too. I know about this stuff. When I was going TDY to Greece, yeah, I was going to get $162 per diem, but so were all of the other officers on the crew and their flight pay, BAH, and other entitlements blew mine away. You're comparing apples to oranges. Also, the majority of enlisted airmen are not aircrew. Remember that whole "Less than 1% of the AF!" thing they always spouted during tech school? The chances for these kinds of high paying trips are far more rare for most other enlisted fields.

And an admin officer could still pull in more money than you just sitting at home picking their nose.

She didn't make a mistake because she wanted to serve and not wait around. She enjoys her job now and is just waiting for a board, she's fine with that. And that's what I'm getting at. Some people are totally done being an E for life. Otherwise we'd never have chiefs. Oh and my E experience so far has not been "grunt work. ". Sure if there is a task that doesn't require a lot of brainpower and they don't want to do it: they call an airman. But to say a majority of my labor has been trash, etc? Hell no. My time as an E was well spent and I wouldn't give up anything for it. If I could go back and go straight ROTC, AFA, etc I'd still enlist. Call me an outlier, or blame my job for my outlook, but whatever.

I was from an aviation career field, so I know that you may have a skewed opinion of enlisted life. The lifestyle of a flier is not the same as the average on the ground airman. You should know we have it way cushier than all other enlisted career fields. I got to play video games and watch movies on the job. Ask a Security Forces, MX or Services airman if they can get away with that.

Even if you want to serve, that's not a good enough excuse to jump into a decision blindly. That's how you end up with good people getting suckered into Infantry and coming home with PTSD, TBI or missing limbs.

Sounds like you had a horrible enlisted experience.

My enlisted experience was great but I'm not naive enough to think my experience is what the majority of enlisted airmen go through. Only considering your own personal experience and forgetting about the thousands of other airmen who had a terrible time is looking at things with blinders on.

 

[Remember_This_Day]

And an admin officer could still pull in more money than you just sitting at home picking their nose.


My enlisted experience was great but I'm not naive enough to think my experience is what the majority of enlisted airmen go through. Only considering your own personal experience and forgetting about the thousands of other airmen who had a terrible time is looking at things with blinders on.

Your right. Flyer-to-Flyer O beats E. flight to ground, it gets more complex. But no more about $.

For the record I'm not looking at things with blinders on. I realize the world of an E isn't all rainbows and butterfly's. I do have friends outside my AFSC, and I have even got the opportunity to shadow some of them at
Work in my off time. Last thing I'm saying on it is yes, there is a pay differential and yes, E's do a lot of grunt work. But I would never discount tr experience you've had nor the exp of a SecFor, Services, POL, or any other.

Believe it or not, there's a lot of enlisted military members with college degrees who simply didn't want to become commissioned officers. Many felt that they could contribute more, in the way that they wanted to contribute, as an enlisted man/woman.

Deep inside my blocks of text that's what I was trying to get at. Thanks for regulating. Also, for the OP, I'd just have to say again that there is nothing wrong with the choice. Just know that if you view it only as a "stepping stone" than your doing it for the wrong reasons.

 

[Christcorp]

Enlisted is definitely not a "Stepping Stone" to becoming commissioned. Can you become commissioned if you are/were currently an enlisted member? Of course you can. Enlisted get selected to the academy or ROTC all the time. It's just not the simplest or easiest method to do it. Therefor, it's not really a stepping stone.

There's 2 ways to look at this. (There are others, but I will only count on the 2 that MATTER).
1. You want to serve your country in the military
2. You want to serve your country in the military "As a Commissioned Officer"

I am not dissing other people's motives for joining the military, enlisting, or seeking a commission. I'm simply not going to discuss other motives, because I believe that serving your country in the military is the most important reason. (By the way; there are other ways to serve your country other than in the military). But my point is; your pursuit towards the military, the academies, ROTC, enlisted, etc... all depends on which of the 2 above points of view you subscribe to.

If your main objective is to serve as a commissioned officer, then going the route of enlisted first; whether it's AD, Guard, or Reserve is a poor choice. It definitely isn't the natural order; or stepping stone; to reach that goal. As mentioned, it's actually a much more difficult means of reaching that goal. However; if your primary objective is to serve in the military, and officer/enlisted is 2nd or further down on the list, then there's nothing wrong with becoming enlisted if you weren't able to get an appointment to the academy or ROTC. You can serve; get educated; get your degree; and still apply for a commission later on if that's what you want. Unless things have changed, you only need 10 or more years as an officer (Out of 20 years) to retire as such. I know a lot of enlisted who got their degrees and were accepted to OCS with 6-10 years as enlisted.

Generally, these officer positions will not include most rated positions such as pilot or Nav. If you've been enlisted for 6-10 years, age will become a factor. Of course, if your main objective is to be a commissioned officer, you could take your chances as an enlisted. You could spend the first year in Basic Training and tech school. Then, getting your CDC's and 5-Level completed. Then, you can hope that you're still young enough to apply. Of course, you then have to get your commander, God, the Apostles, etc... to all support and agree to all that. Same with an ROTC slot. Of course, we're assuming that hormones haven't kicked in and you got married and started a family. That sort of changes a person's perspective on things.

As I mentioned previously; if you're main objective is to serve your country in the military as a commissioned officer, then you should apply to the academy and/or ROTC. If you don't get selected, go to college and join ROTC. (You can still join without a scholarship). Bust your butt and get offered a commission. If that all falls through, take your degree and apply to OCS. If you still fail to get commissioned, then you can consider going enlisted. You'll be 4 years older than most enlisted in basic training and your rank bracket, but it's still an option. Then you can apply for OCS from within once you've established a "military resume" and reputation whereby you have the support of your commanders. But going enlisted to officer at 17-18 years old, with the goal being to become a commissioned officer, is not the normal or recommended path. Best of luck. Mike...