Any advice for parent of MID going to board

Not being prepared and waiting to do their CFA until two weeks before the application is due is one thing. Mids/Cadets are busting their butts at school and lots of other things are going on, as well as the higher standards for them while in school. And for even in shape, average guys, running 7:00/mile is not exactly easy.
 
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Capt MJ said:
Just spitballing here. The board has to be convinced he can pass, and pass consistently. If he came up with a plan to be tested 3 times over the summer, even if he gave up leave plans or had to do crazy things to make it happen, and passed each and every time before Reform and the two-for-seven hammer falls, that would be a trend the board could respect. He would have to be all in, focus on the absolute basics of his life: proper nutrition, sleep hygiene, PT workouts, summer training. Nothing else that’s fun or goofing off or derails what should be a pre-Olympics laser focus on getting his running up to speed and his body weight down. Everybody else is going to the beach, he’s going for a run, etc. Either he wants to stay at USNA and turns himself inside out to do it, or…

We had a 3/C sponsor son who struggled with required swim tests, and was facing separation because of that. He enlisted the help of a SEAL lieutenant on the Yard to help him overcome his water issues, refine technique and gain confidence. He asked if he could give up his summer leave block and stay in Bancroft for those 3 weeks. He did 3-a-day pool sessions with the SEAL to work on various things. Weekends too for self-led workouts in the pool. The last week, he took and passed every required swim test for USNA. I tease him now because he has a pool at his house in CA, and he says he’s still not fond of the deep end, but he knows he has the skills to help his little ones if they get into trouble.
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This. When I was saying in my previous post about identifying the root cause and explaining the game plan, CaptMJ highlighted exactly what I meant and was thinking. If you go into the board and say, "Here is what went wrong, here is what I learned, I am already course correcting and heading in the right direction and here is how I would like to permanently fix it" this would likely be a more convincing argument for the board to give a second chance, especially if you make the goal posts PRIOR TO reform, as it mitigates the risk across the board. This type of approach shows that the issue is being taken seriously, places the responsibility/accountability on the individual, and shows ownership. If successful, it works in everyone's favor and if not...then the plan accounted for that by placing the responsibility on the individual.
 
OP mentioned weight gained by DS. Somebody mentioned stress eating. It is known that meals at USNA are highly caloric. I think that part of OP's DS pitch to the board should include a concrete and detailed plan to lose weight (maybe a plan to work with a nutritionist, if available), and keep it off. That in addition to all the other good things already mentioned in this thread.
 
newtonsapple said:
OP mentioned weight gained by DS. Somebody mentioned stress eating. It is known that meals at USNA are highly caloric. I think that part of OP's DS pitch to the board should include a concrete and detailed plan to lose weight (maybe a plan to work with a nutritionist, if available), and keep it off. That in addition to all the other good things already mentioned in this thread.
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USNA has registered dieticians at MDC that can help with a plan should OP pursue this route.
 
A1Janitor said:
This sort of thing really saddens me to read.

This parent doesn’t need a lecture from you about their mid.

My son maxes the PRT. And he has more compassion for his fellow mids to not tolerate anyone saying this to a struggling mid. And he has worked to help his peers with struggles - academic, military, pro knowledge, physical fitness.

This is a team.
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For the record, I was not lecturing the OP, I was making a general observation about the unfortunate number of kids who are falling short in required physical fitness because: They. Just. Don't. Get. It.

That said, holding people accountable is uncomfortable but letting them fail because you are unwilling to confront or correct them is unforgivable.

This kid is 0 for 2 and going before a board that will determine the outcome of his very life. Who failed him? It wasn't me. I'm guessing it was someone you would approve of much more than me.
 
JohnMcLane said:
For the record, I was not lecturing the OP, I was making a general observation about the unfortunate number of kids who are falling short in required physical fitness because: They. Just. Don't. Get. It.

That said, holding people accountable is uncomfortable but letting them fail because you are unwilling to confront or correct them is unforgivable.

This kid is 0 for 2 and going before a board that will determine the outcome of his very life. Who failed him? It wasn't me. I'm guessing it was someone you would approve of much more than me.
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Sometimes it isn’t necessarily what you say, it is how you say it and when. Not sure how your post “holds anyone accountable.” This parent didn’t need it at this time and in this thread.

I have no reason to not approve of you. I have every reason to not approve of your post.

We don’t know why. And we don’t know who should be blamed. What if it is genetics for instance?

Instead of judging, my first thought was to ask my son to help.

Besides, I was holding you accountable for the post. I know it was uncomfortable for you, but not confronting you or correcting you would have been unforgivable. ;)
 
JohnMcLane said:
This kid is 0 for 2 and going before a board that will determine the outcome of his very life. Who failed him? It wasn't me. I'm guessing it was someone you would approve of much more than me.
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The topic is never about responsibility or accountability. No one here argued that the kid is not accountable, the question that was asked what can he do to prepare self better before going to the board. He knew he has to prepare more and work harder.

Just to correct you, the board is not going to decide the outcome of his life , this is NOT the end. It is just getting started, if not service this way then he may find other ways to serve. Who knows he may be more impactful somewhere else. The board has NO power to decide the outcome .. reiterating it again for you my friend.
 
nuensis said:
This mid has already well surpassed run standards for the Navy and all other Navy commissioning programs; USNA just has even higher standards.

Not saying your point doesn't have at least some validity, just saying if this were NROTC, OCS, or the actual Navy, there would not be any problem.

The USNA standards are most difficult for the older MIDN, college re-applicants and fleet returnees, folks that sustained some injury, and athletes that maintain a heavy physique (rugby, football, etc.). It's not always as simple as choosing to be a fat-body. And it's always frustrating to know this would not be an issue literally anywhere else in the Navy.
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I'm going to address this a bit because it might not be as apparent to some of the folks reading this. Yes, the USNA standards are tough and while it might be easy for some, they are challenging to many, even active folks who work out. Prior to the current use the the PRT with its 1.5 mile run, USNA tested mids on a 1 mile run every semester and the passing time was 6:30. When women joined the brigade, their passing time was 7:30. 6:30 was never an easy thing for me and that was the lowest D grade you could get. If you looked at high school track meet results in the newspapers, there were often girls placing (2nd or 3rd) whose times would not pass the MINIMUM score at USNA and they were practicing with their teams! As a BGO, whenever one of my interviewees is a Cross Country or Track person, I ask about times and I have heard many whose splits or actual times are not much better than the PASSING at USNA.
Same thing with Swimming. While I was comfortably able to do OK with moderate to high effort, there were folks who are just not built that way. One of my roommates and very close friends was an inner city kid from a large East Coast city and despite the claims of the instructors, no matter how much he breathed in and did what they said, he just did not float. His body density was just not "amphibious". . . He worked and worked just to pass the swimming and he put in the effort for all four years just to squeak by which he also did later at Pensacola. He did get a few breaks otherwise he would have been at the long green table for SWIMMING despite putting in many many hours for all four years.
 
Honestly there is no excuse for failing a PRT. Maxing it is hard, passing is not. These kids are in the prime of their lives physically and the standards aren't a secret. There is plenty of opportunity for PT and workout programs available. If someone fails, it's because they haven't put in the effort.

If they can't pass it now, it's only going to get worse when they get to the fleet.
 
JohnMcLane said:
My post was perceived as an attack on the OP. It was not. I was venting my frustration into the night sky about a systemic problem but with hindsight I realize how it came across and that it would have been more appropriate in a different thread. My apologies to the OP and to the others who took offense.

It breaks my heart that there is yet one more kid whose dreams are in jeopardy due to fitness. Sadly, save for injuries and a few exceptions, it's almost always avoidable. This trend is most recently evidenced in the post-mortems of many non-selects for various programs. It’s like hearing about someone who was injured in a car wreck because they weren’t wearing their seatbelt. Hard lessons that we wish could be learned from other people's experiences but instead too often end up learned in the first-person and become just the latest example of the same worn-out cautionary tale.

My desire to want to stop the trend of kids walking off an easily avoided cliff was mistaken for a lack of compassion. I’ll concede my post was a moment of bad judgement/communication but I'm hardly the monster that needs to be chased out of the village by the townspeople.
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As one of the townspeople who responded to what I called your post as "rather harsh," I appreciate this thoughtful response. Apologies are not always easy, but please know this acknowledgement of your "perceived attack" is deeply appreciated. Glad we can all take a deep breath!
 
Following this story

For me this thread illustrates one of the highest and best uses of this board. Supporting a parent who is trying to help his/her exceptional kid removed in distance and experience from that parents reach. I came to the board years ago with trying to help my Mid from a distance and I am still following the conversation. You all looked pretty good on this thread.

Really nice to see posters offering up the struggles their own Mids have experienced at the USNA. My own DD loved that place and did well there................. but for her it was swimming. The kid grew up on a lake! She could deep water start on a slalom ski or climb back in an overturned skull...no problem. She couldn't pass the USNA swimming Req. Family sweated that one a bit, (DW doesn't handle the struggles of her children well😱). DD took swimming lessons summer of her 3c year, and we had an exuberant call home when she passed. Seems like they all have their struggle with something; as it should be I guess.

Capt. MJ that's a Helluva "Spit ball," but I liked ProudDad2022's post of your PM comments better. There ought to be a "Gems" section of this board where that kind of information can sit.

To the OP. I've never been before the subject USNA board (or any USNA anything), but I have some Exp. with advocacy directed to judges and decision boards. Great news on his PRT (mock?) but unless the Board dismisses based on the recent PRT result, stick with Capt MJ's plan: Causation Established; Responsibility Accepted; Plan Established; Proposed Metric; Lessons Learned. My experience teaches that when Judges/Boards are "on the fence" over taking a negative/punitive action, they will almost always opt for any clear plan that delivers more information and a metric that will make their decision almost automatic at a later date...if it comes to that.

BTW, if as part of this saga, your DS ended up reaching out for help in his company/Etc.....like you did, thats a huge positive lesson learned, worth noting to a Board IMO: " I screwed up, this is what I'm gonna do to fix it, but along the way I learned this..positive lesson too... and I am taking that lesson with me". Boards/Judges always like to hear that the Respondent pulled something positive out of the experience beyond the immediate problem to be presented.

McLane, thanks for that last post. You're not the first person to get a little too saltly here. Msg board experiences differ, this one has a lot of deeply committed parents of sons/daughters who are being challenged far from home and far from Dad's / Mom's ability to help. We all accept that as part of the NAVY deal. That said, when people here read a post like Vmtony's it drops pretty hard, because it could be your kid, you know how hard Vmtony's position would be, and how much it means to that young Mid in trouble.

Looking forward to reading more from you McLane, I kinda miss MapleRock's rougher voice here.

vmtony please swing back here and let us know how this finally shakes out.

Best:

Just Dad
 
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Thank you All for the encouraging post. So what I was told is that this was a mock PRT, so it wont go on his official record.
But this small victory hands him a lot of confidence going into the board tomorrow. Board deliberations happen tomorrow morning and if it is decided that he is not boarded, he will be relieved. But the continuous effort to train continues all the rest of the years and fleet.

Will keep you all posted by tomorrow evening.
 
vmtony said:
Thank you All for the encouraging post. So what I was told is that this was a mock PRT, so it wont go on his official record.
But this small victory hands him a lot of confidence going into the board tomorrow. Board deliberations happen tomorrow morning and if it is decided that he is not boarded, he will be relieved. But the continuous effort to train continues all the rest of the years and fleet.

Will keep you all posted by tomorrow evening.
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It shows he can pass it and come in with a little confidence to the board. It’s also a big wake up call for him that this is a priority. It means sleeping right, eating right and training. It might mean even sacrificing some studying to train and sleep right. Best of luck to him and you!
 
Hoping for good news. There are likely to be no extra chances the rest of his time at USNA.
 
vmtony said:
Thank you All for the encouraging post. So what I was told is that this was a mock PRT, so it wont go on his official record.
But this small victory hands him a lot of confidence going into the board tomorrow. Board deliberations happen tomorrow morning and if it is decided that he is not boarded, he will be relieved. But the continuous effort to train continues all the rest of the years and fleet.

Will keep you all posted by tomorrow evening.
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In truth, since he has not yet been commissioned, he isn't really in the Navy's formal PRT program, so this will not follow him for all of his Navy days.

I am not familiar with USNA boards, but they are likely similar to our Professional Review Boards. I think he just needs to go in front of them with sincerity and admit he has been struggling to figure things out. But he figured it out yesterday by passing a mock PRT. He just tells them this has been a major "wake up" call, and he will strive to remain awake for his remaining time at the Academy.

Then he just picks up and moves on. The best steel is forged in the hottest fire.
 
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