Applicant with Pilots License

BGMom25

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First time poster because I finally registered after a few months of stalking ;)

My son is currently a high school Junior, class of 2021. He just turned 17 yesterday, so he is starting the pre-application process soon. He has a very good GPA, but attends an extremely competitive school so his ranking is only in the top 20%. He has taken mostly AP classes, is active in sports (baseball) and other extracurriculars. He is not looking for an athletic position though. He is not interested in playing sports beyond high school. His March 2020 SAT was 1290, but he is hoping to have another chance to retake it to improve it. Hopefully the Covid-19 situation will resolve enough for normal school activities to resume soon. Currently, he is working on his private pilot license and should be finished by the end of June or beginning of July. After that he is going to work towards his Instrumental rating. He really wants to be a Navy pilot.

Obviously we don't know if he will get an appointment, but he is looking at his options if he does. Does him already having his private pilot license hurt or help in any way in regards to eventually becoming a Naval pilot? He has heard that it can hinder his chances, but that hasn't come from anyplace that I would consider a completely reputable resource (YouTube, etc). His dream is to have a career as a Navy Pilot, retire and then work for commercial or private airlines, so either way he knows he wants to fly. My Dad is a pilot and has an airplane for him to use right now, so that's the main reason he started flight school so young. Not to mention, it's something that he has always wanted. I am hoping that what he has heard is incorrect, but I honestly don't know.
 
I was a teenage pilot. The Marines still had to train me how to fly, though.
In my experience, it doesn't matter either way. In other words, no it will not hinder his chances in any way.
 
Current USNA ('23) Plebe (have just finished finals earlier this week but w/o Herndon, unclear if I'm a Plebe No More yet :)

For context, I was a direct admit from high school (not from NAPS or a college transfer) into USNA last June (2019) and had earned my FAA PPL in June of 2018 - a few months after my 17th birthday. With that background, I have a couple of thoughts (apologies in advance for the length of this post) that may be insightful for the OP as it relates to USNA admissions (I obviously can't talk about the impact holding a PPL and various ratings will have post-graduation for Navy/Marine flight training):

For the 2023 USNA Application, there actually was a radio check box asking if the candidate possessed a FAA PPL so to me, it's clear that it's something that at a minimum, the admissions office is interested in knowing about. Class of 2024 candidates can confirm that it was still there or not.

Pure conjecture on my part, but my gut tells me that the USNA application specifically asked about it because it's a credential that potentially speaks to a candidate's ability to complete a technical course of study over a long-period of time as well as perform both physically and mentally, under some degree of pressure.

Important to note though, earning a PPL is a tremendous privilege because of the significant cost and time involved, so I also strongly believe that not having it would in anyway detract from any (read the overwhelming majority of all) candidate(s).

While I can't tell you definitively that it made any ultimate difference in my USNA admissions decision - the fact that I was admitted clearly indicates that it didn't hurt ;) Moreover, there are a few other Plebes in my company that had also earned or held their PPL's at the time of their application or by I-Day, so while not common, I can share with you from direct knowledge that there definitely are a fair number of students in the current 2023 class who do hold them.

While the significance of a FAA PPL is opaque in the role it plays in USNA admissions by design, my FAA PPL absolutely came up repeatedly in my US Senate & Congressional nomination interviews/panels, which all included a number of pilots (former Marine, Navy, AF and Army aviators) who were serving in interviewer capacity. In fact, because I come from a state with a larger USAF presence, the USAF pilots (both current AD and former) on my Congressperson's SA committee, actually gave me a hard time about ranking USNA (and not applying to USAFA) despite having my PPL, with much of that interview consisting of them trying to recruit me to USAFA.

But perhaps most significantly, my USNA BGO was a former USNA grad and Naval Aviator (now flying commercially) and my flight hours and experiences felt like a very positive and substantial discussion point in my BGO interview which is a required part of the USNA admissions process. Again, whether the OP's son has a BGO who is pilot or not, I would venture to guess that having flight experience would come up as a talking/touch point during the required interview.

Final thoughts -- again, purely my opinion:

(1) The PPL credential feels like a really "nice-to-have", versus a "must have". I personally don't believe it would have moved the needle in my favor if my application had been deficient on any of the critical admission factors including standardized test scores, the level of rigor and my grades of core high school academic transcript, demonstrable athletic and leadership accomplishments and teacher recommendations.

(2) Because of the cost and time involved, I would urge the OP to make sure that the pursuit of the PPL doesn't come at the expense/effort of focusing on doing everything absolutely possible to improve test scores, grades, your son's CFA score, extracurricular athletic and leadership experiences, building relationships with teachers that could result in enhanced recommendations et al.

(3) Make sure flying is something that your son is passionate about, not just pursuing as part of an admissions strategy.

(4) Be aware and prepared that absent of participating in/on the USNA Flight Team and/or later during your USNA career in the Powered Flight Program (where USNA upper class mids take ground school during summer training blocks and prep for the FAA exam plus potentially solo - and mids already holding their FAA PPL can serve as "detailers" to help) - there was very little time (zero in my case) to fly during my Plebe year. In fact, while on the Yard, there was little time for anything in my life outside of school, athletics and way-too-little sleep :) While I know one Plebe who lives close to the Yard who at least twice during his Saturday liberties went home and went flying -- for at least myself and the Plebes in my company who held their PPLs, we all have had zero fight time this past year :(

(5) I've heard, but not confirmed, that having your PPL can potentially shorten some flight training post USNA graduation, but that's too far off and there are too many potential variables (ability to service select aviation, medical screening etc.) to even think about or quantify its downstream value.

So, long answer to your question -- will a candidate having their PPL be negatively impacted during the USNA admissions process? -- the answer is clearly, no :) Hoping this helps.

Fly Navy, Beat Army!
 
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My experience is dated, but I think a private pilot license (especially with an instrument rating) is helpful in early phases of flight training.... Wise students in the training command learn not to advertise their ace flying skills too early or often.
 
Not sure it helps in terms of admissions, maybe it shows that you can start something difficult and follow through with it. One of the main reasons I got my PPL was because I was told by a Marine fighter pilot that having some experience and confidence with radio comms while flying is a huge advantage once you actually get to military flight school. Something about tunnel vision when talking to ATC...
 
Current USNA ('23) Plebe (have just finished finals earlier this week but w/o Herndon, unclear if I'm a Plebe No More yet :)

For context, I was a direct admit from high school (not from NAPS or a college transfer) into USNA last June (2019) and had earned my FAA PPL in June of 2018 - a few months after my 17th birthday. With that background, I have a couple of thoughts (apologies in advance for the length of this post) that may be insightful for the OP as it relates to USNA admissions (I obviously can't talk about the impact holding a PPL and various ratings will have post-graduation for Navy/Marine flight training):

For the 2023 USNA Application, there actually was a radio check box asking if the candidate possessed a FAA PPL so to me, it's clear that it's something that at a minimum, the admissions office is interested in knowing about. Class of 2024 candidates can confirm that it was still there or not.

Pure conjecture on my part, but my gut tells me that the USNA application specifically asked about it because it's a credential that potentially speaks to a candidate's ability to complete a technical course of study over a long-period of time as well as perform both physically and mentally, under some degree of pressure.

Important to note though, earning a PPL is a tremendous privilege because of the significant cost and time involved, so I also strongly believe that not having it would in anyway detract from any (read the overwhelming majority of all) candidate(s).

While I can't tell you definitively that it made any ultimate difference in my USNA admissions decision - the fact that I was admitted clearly indicates that it didn't hurt ;) Moreover, there are a few other Plebes in my company that had also earned or held their PPL's at the time of their application or by I-Day, so while not common, I can share with you from direct knowledge that there definitely are a fair number of students in the current 2023 class who do hold them.

While the significance of a FAA PPL is opaque in the role it plays in USNA admissions by design, my FAA PPL absolutely came up repeatedly in my US Senate & Congressional nomination interviews/panels, which all included a number of pilots (former Marine, Navy, AF and Army aviators) who were serving in interviewer capacity. In fact, because I come from a state with a larger USAF presence, the USAF pilots (both current AD and former) on my Congressperson's SA committee, actually gave me a hard time about ranking USNA (and not applying to USAFA) despite having my PPL, with much of that interview consisting of them trying to recruit me to USAFA.

But perhaps most significantly, my USNA BGO was a former USNA grad and Naval Aviator (now flying commercially) and my flight hours and experiences felt like a very positive and substantial discussion point in my BGO interview which is a required part of the USNA admissions process. Again, whether the OP's son has a BGO who is pilot or not, I would venture to guess that having flight experience would come up as a talking/touch point during the required interview.

Final thoughts -- again, purely my opinion:

(1) The PPL credential feels like a really "nice-to-have", versus a "must have". I personally don't believe it would have moved the needle in my favor if my application had been deficient on any of the critical admission factors including standardized test scores, the level of rigor and my grades of core high school academic transcript, demonstrable athletic and leadership accomplishments and teacher recommendations.

(2) Because of the cost and time involved, I would urge the OP to make sure that the pursuit of the PPL doesn't come at the expense/effort of focusing on doing everything absolutely possible to improve test scores, grades, your son's CFA score, extracurricular athletic and leadership experiences, building relationships with teachers that could result in enhanced recommendations et al.

(3) Make sure flying is something that your son is passionate about, not just pursuing as part of an admissions strategy.

(4) Be aware and prepared that absent of participating in/on the USNA Flight Team and/or later during your USNA career in the Powered Flight Program (where USNA upper class mids take ground school during summer training blocks and prep for the FAA exam plus potentially solo - and mids already holding their FAA PPL can serve as "detailers" to help) - there was very little time (zero in my case) to fly during my Plebe year. In fact, while on the Yard, there was little time for anything in my life outside of school, athletics and way-too-little sleep :) While I know one Plebe who lives close to the Yard who at least twice during his Saturday liberties went home and went flying -- for at least myself and the Plebes in my company who held their PPLs, we all have had zero fight time this past year :(

(5) I've heard, but not confirmed, that having your PPL can potentially shorten some flight training post USNA graduation, but that's too far off and there are too many potential variables (ability to service select aviation, medical screening etc.) to even think about or quantify its downstream value.

So, long answer to your question -- will a candidate having their PPL be negatively impacted during the USNA admissions process? -- the answer is clearly, no :) Hoping this helps.

Fly Navy, Beat Army!


Great Post! Good luck to you!
 
Obviously we don't know if he will get an appointment, but he is looking at his options if he does. Does him already having his private pilot license hurt or help in any way in regards to eventually becoming a Naval pilot?

My view , FWIW -- and I had a Pilot's license as a candidate.

First, it certainly doesn't hurt with respect to Admissions, or with respect to Service Assignment. However, it could hurt when it comes to actual flight training. In many things, there is a right way, a wrong way, and a Navy way, and you will be expected to do it the Navy way in flight training. If you have bad habits, or even good habits and can't adapt to the Navy way, a PPL can be a hindrance. I suspect that instructors would rather have a fresh ball of clay to mold than someone bringing old habits into the mix. (Also, beware of being cocky -- the Flight Instructors don't care if you have 1000 hours in a bug smasher).

Second, on the Admissions side -- no one expects the applicant to have a PPL, and the having a PPL itself isn't all that impressive. Realistically, the act of physically controlling an aircraft isn't all that difficult. (Remember, I have done it and can say that). That said, I do think that earning a PPL as a teenager does demonstrate a level of goal setting/achievement, maturity and decision making that is a positive attribute. If you focus on that , rather than thinking of it as showing your desire to be a pilot, it can help.

You should never forget that the Mission of the Naval Academy is to produce Naval Officers, not simply pilots. Both MOC panels and Admissions are looking for people who want to serve as Naval Officer, not people who want to fly planes. Too much focus on the pilot objective can be destrimental (and lead to disappointment if you aren't physically qualified or aren't selected for Aviation.

Finally, I was a Naval Flight Officer (P3's) after graduation. The one advantage I got from my pilot's license is that I didn't have to spend any time or mental effort adapting to being in the air. Initial NFO training included just a few flights in a T34 before pipeline selection , and I did fairly well because I was already comfortable in the air and could focus on doing my job instead of looking out the window and watching the ground go by.
 
@BGMom25 - Answering from a USAFA applicant parent perspective here. My DS is a 2nd-time candidate at USAFA. He's had his PPL since the fall of 2018, his junior year of high school. He had his check ride with the FAA examiner scheduled a few days after he interviewed with either our Congressman's or Senator's nomination board in 2018. I don't believe his PPL made a big difference when he received a TWE from USAFA in mid-April of 2019. Agreeing with all replies shared on this thread so far, it certainly couldn't have hurt his application. There were obviously other weaknesses in his application that earned him that TWE which a PPL didn't cancel out. We visited USAFA in January of 2019 and the senior cadet who hosted our tour group had has PPL. He explained the PPL will put him a few weeks ahead of others when he and his classmates attend pilot training. That was a perceived advantage.

Fast forward to this year and his application for class of 2024. His application is obviously stronger this year, since he's still an active candidate. Even without my obvious bias, he's an amazing kid. He has a passion for flying, he loves our country and has a strong desire to serve. We think if his GPA and SAT were a little stronger, he'd have been offered an appointment this year. At least he hasn't received a TWE yet, so we'll see how it goes.
 
Anyone who says it hinders his chances has likely never been around military aviation themselves.
That is what I thought, but I do not have a military background so I couldn't be sure of it. Thank you for your input.
 
Current USNA ('23) Plebe (have just finished finals earlier this week but w/o Herndon, unclear if I'm a Plebe No More yet :)

For context, I was a direct admit from high school (not from NAPS or a college transfer) into USNA last June (2019) and had earned my FAA PPL in June of 2018 - a few months after my 17th birthday. With that background, I have a couple of thoughts (apologies in advance for the length of this post) that may be insightful for the OP as it relates to USNA admissions (I obviously can't talk about the impact holding a PPL and various ratings will have post-graduation for Navy/Marine flight training):

For the 2023 USNA Application, there actually was a radio check box asking if the candidate possessed a FAA PPL so to me, it's clear that it's something that at a minimum, the admissions office is interested in knowing about. Class of 2024 candidates can confirm that it was still there or not.

Pure conjecture on my part, but my gut tells me that the USNA application specifically asked about it because it's a credential that potentially speaks to a candidate's ability to complete a technical course of study over a long-period of time as well as perform both physically and mentally, under some degree of pressure.

Important to note though, earning a PPL is a tremendous privilege because of the significant cost and time involved, so I also strongly believe that not having it would in anyway detract from any (read the overwhelming majority of all) candidate(s).

While I can't tell you definitively that it made any ultimate difference in my USNA admissions decision - the fact that I was admitted clearly indicates that it didn't hurt ;) Moreover, there are a few other Plebes in my company that had also earned or held their PPL's at the time of their application or by I-Day, so while not common, I can share with you from direct knowledge that there definitely are a fair number of students in the current 2023 class who do hold them.

While the significance of a FAA PPL is opaque in the role it plays in USNA admissions by design, my FAA PPL absolutely came up repeatedly in my US Senate & Congressional nomination interviews/panels, which all included a number of pilots (former Marine, Navy, AF and Army aviators) who were serving in interviewer capacity. In fact, because I come from a state with a larger USAF presence, the USAF pilots (both current AD and former) on my Congressperson's SA committee, actually gave me a hard time about ranking USNA (and not applying to USAFA) despite having my PPL, with much of that interview consisting of them trying to recruit me to USAFA.

But perhaps most significantly, my USNA BGO was a former USNA grad and Naval Aviator (now flying commercially) and my flight hours and experiences felt like a very positive and substantial discussion point in my BGO interview which is a required part of the USNA admissions process. Again, whether the OP's son has a BGO who is pilot or not, I would venture to guess that having flight experience would come up as a talking/touch point during the required interview.

Final thoughts -- again, purely my opinion:

(1) The PPL credential feels like a really "nice-to-have", versus a "must have". I personally don't believe it would have moved the needle in my favor if my application had been deficient on any of the critical admission factors including standardized test scores, the level of rigor and my grades of core high school academic transcript, demonstrable athletic and leadership accomplishments and teacher recommendations.

(2) Because of the cost and time involved, I would urge the OP to make sure that the pursuit of the PPL doesn't come at the expense/effort of focusing on doing everything absolutely possible to improve test scores, grades, your son's CFA score, extracurricular athletic and leadership experiences, building relationships with teachers that could result in enhanced recommendations et al.

(3) Make sure flying is something that your son is passionate about, not just pursuing as part of an admissions strategy.

(4) Be aware and prepared that absent of participating in/on the USNA Flight Team and/or later during your USNA career in the Powered Flight Program (where USNA upper class mids take ground school during summer training blocks and prep for the FAA exam plus potentially solo - and mids already holding their FAA PPL can serve as "detailers" to help) - there was very little time (zero in my case) to fly during my Plebe year. In fact, while on the Yard, there was little time for anything in my life outside of school, athletics and way-too-little sleep :) While I know one Plebe who lives close to the Yard who at least twice during his Saturday liberties went home and went flying -- for at least myself and the Plebes in my company who held their PPLs, we all have had zero fight time this past year :(

(5) I've heard, but not confirmed, that having your PPL can potentially shorten some flight training post USNA graduation, but that's too far off and there are too many potential variables (ability to service select aviation, medical screening etc.) to even think about or quantify its downstream value.

So, long answer to your question -- will a candidate having their PPL be negatively impacted during the USNA admissions process? -- the answer is clearly, no :) Hoping this helps.

Fly Navy, Beat Army!
I appreciate the time you took to be through in your post. He has wanted his PPL since he was 13 so USNA or not, it's something he has been persistent in wanting for a long time, which is why the investment is worth it to us. We have discussed the fact that he wouldn't get to fly often while away, if he were to attend, but thank you for clarifying that. We are in Texas, so definitely not close enough to be able to go home and fly when he has free time. Again, thank you for your time.
 
Not sure it helps in terms of admissions, maybe it shows that you can start something difficult and follow through with it. One of the main reasons I got my PPL was because I was told by a Marine fighter pilot that having some experience and confidence with radio comms while flying is a huge advantage once you actually get to military flight school. Something about tunnel vision when talking to ATC...
It's funny that you mention that. Talking to ATC is what he is most nervous doing! Your point of view is one I'll share with him for sure. Thank you!
 
My view , FWIW -- and I had a Pilot's license as a candidate.

First, it certainly doesn't hurt with respect to Admissions, or with respect to Service Assignment. However, it could hurt when it comes to actual flight training. In many things, there is a right way, a wrong way, and a Navy way, and you will be expected to do it the Navy way in flight training. If you have bad habits, or even good habits and can't adapt to the Navy way, a PPL can be a hindrance. I suspect that instructors would rather have a fresh ball of clay to mold than someone bringing old habits into the mix. (Also, beware of being cocky -- the Flight Instructors don't care if you have 1000 hours in a bug smasher).

Second, on the Admissions side -- no one expects the applicant to have a PPL, and the having a PPL itself isn't all that impressive. Realistically, the act of physically controlling an aircraft isn't all that difficult. (Remember, I have done it and can say that). That said, I do think that earning a PPL as a teenager does demonstrate a level of goal setting/achievement, maturity and decision making that is a positive attribute. If you focus on that , rather than thinking of it as showing your desire to be a pilot, it can help.
I think that's where his worry about it hindering stems from. He knows that it's harder to teach people to fix bad habits than to just teach them how they want them doing things in the first place. He's worried that's how they'll see it too. As far as him being cocky, I don't worry about that with him. Luckily, he is very humble and often we have to point out his "brag worthy" achievements. Pointing out the goal setting, achievement, maturity and decision making is an excellent way to look at it. I appreciate and thank you for your input.
 
I appreciate the time you took to be through in your post. He has wanted his PPL since he was 13 so USNA or not, it's something he has been persistent in wanting for a long time, which is why the investment is worth it to us. We have discussed the fact that he wouldn't get to fly often while away, if he were to attend, but thank you for clarifying that. We are in Texas, so definitely not close enough to be able to go home and fly when he has free time. Again, thank you for your time.
That's awesome! Where in Texas do you guys live? I was born in Austin (and still have a ton of family through Central Texas, Dallas and in Houston) but moved overseas when I was in elementary school and then returned to the U.S. for high school but outside of Texas.

It's fantastic that your dad is a pilot and that he has access to a plane and the skills -- it must also be wonderful for your son and dad to be able to bond over their shared interest!

The advice on this thread has all been great - especially from the folks who are older and more experienced than me when it comes to actual naval flight training post service academy graduation. I'm glad that you posted -- the thoughtful answers from everyone have been helpful to me!

Also, in no way did I want to come across as not supportive (or in anyway discouraging) of your son's pursuit of his PPL and clearly his passion -- it was an absolute fantastic experience for me that was simultaneously exciting, humbling and confidence building; I actually solo'd on my 16th birthday before I had ever driven a car by myself :)

If your son ever wants to talk, has questions about USNA at anytime, please let him know that I'm totally available 24/7 to connect!

Alternatively, if he is able to participate in a CVW (candidate visit weekend) on the Yard this upcoming year or during his senior year,) he should definitely try to make it happen and take advantage of it. Please let him know that I would love to host him, or better, if he stays with a plebe over that visit which has a lot of benefits, to let me know when/where he is in Bancroft and I'll come find him and introduce him to a bunch of great kids (including those who already have pilots licenses.)

It sounds like in so many ways, your son is where I was when I was a rising junior -- and so many Mids were so incredibly welcoming to me as I learned more about the Academy (I also don't come from a military family) that it would truly be my honor to be a resource for him in any and all ways!
 
Pilots license will not hurt or help. It might give him something interesting to talk about during an interview or a cool essay topic. Embrace your strengths! But I've highlighted some real things to work on that will definitely effect competitiveness for an appt. There are amazing, exceptional kids who are turned away every year. Buckle down and fight and claw for every point on the whole candidate score! Apply early and don't forget about ROTC scholarships! The path to serve varies, but the end result is still amazing!

My son is currently a high school Junior, class of 2021. He just turned 17 yesterday, so he is starting the pre-application process soon. He has a very good GPA, but attends an extremely competitive school so his ranking is only in the top 20%. He has taken mostly AP classes (taking the most rigorous schedule possible?) is active (Leadership) in sports (baseball) and other extracurriculars. He is not looking for an athletic position though. He is not interested in playing sports beyond high school. His March 2020 SAT was 1290 (use this time to practice like crazy and get that up! Have you seen the stats for most recent class?), but he is hoping to have another chance to retake it to improve it. Hopefully the Covid-19 situation will resolve enough
 
Getting that SAT up is more important to the chances of getting admitted than the PPL. If both can be done then fine but if the PPL interferes with proper SAT prep at all then I'd recommend re-evaluating his priorities.
 
By the way, on this site the comment about attending an "Extremely Competitive School" is only less common than attending "One of the Top Schools in the State (or Country)".

What seems to be rare is attending an Average School or even a Below Average School. I for one can tell you that I attended a well below average, inner city, minority-majority school which is rated (now) among the worst in the state. Yet somehow I made it into USNA and finished academically above the midpoint of my class.
 
Just a heads up to OP! The week after I passed my checkride, I had my blue and gold interview. The only difficult question my BGO asked (that I really had to think about) was, "If you don't make Navy pilot, how disappointed will you be? If you had to select SWO, would you miserable?" I hadn't ever really considered it, but I ended up answering that in the end, the Navy has been my dream and not just naval aviation. I also added that I've never had the chance to consider and "tour" other service selections, but I'm sure I'll find an interest in other selections.

I definitely recommend applicants to start thinking about questions like this. To this day I'm not sure if I answered correctly, but I did answer honestly. We get so caught up in our dreams as teenagers it helps to check yourself and think about alternatives. Good luck!
 
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