Article on Seal Training

[usna1985]

Death in Navy SEAL Training Exposes a Culture of Brutality, Cheating and Drugs

CORONADO, Calif. — Kyle Mullen always had the natural drive and talent that made success look easy. Until he tried out for the Navy SEALs. The 24-year-old arrived on the California coast in January for the SEALs’ punishing selection course in the best shape of his life — even better than when he...

news.yahoo.com

Not sure how accurate it is, but rather disturbing if true.

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

The death, the drugs found, the 40 others that were caught or admitted drug use, the coughing up blood, the the % of pass rate at Buds, I would assume all of these to be true.

The deaths are the critical issue.

But the indications of drug use, unsupervised drug use , un medically followed drug use, if this is at all wide spread (and only tests would have told ) then this is going to be a real crap storm for the SEALs and soon other spec op groups.

With a 10% pass rate (or a 25% pass rate ) one would have to be borderline nuts to enlist on a SEAL contract.

 

[cb7893]

Shocked. Not shocked.

I have about a hundred different thoughts about this.

I go to the gym three times a week for an hour long HIIT class. I occasionally pass through the weight room(s). One of the HIIT instructors, a woman, points out the juicers and there are more than few. It is much more common than anyone realizes. All I can think is, "Why do it? What's the upside?"

Several years ago a formerly 98lb weakling SFAS selectee told me that juicing for a physically intense SOF selection is just plain stupid. The more physically intense the selection, the more stupid. The body's physiology changes drastically during these selections. Therefore the delta is all the greater and more dangerous if the body's physiology was changed unnaturally prior to selection. I think BUD/s (especially Hell Week) is considered the toughest physically, so there is probably a greater propensity to juice. What's the opposite of a virtuous cycle?

 

[AF6872]

The Author is a National Correspondent for New York Times covering the military and a Pulitzer Prize winner. His works have never shown the military in a positive light and his Pulitzer was for articles claiming the US killed thousands of civilians in airstrikes in the middle east wars and covered it up. "Since 1953, at least 11 men have died". Give me the numbers for deaths in Basic Training, Flight Schools, Advanced Training and all other military training for any branch over the past sixty-nine years. My Father told me that the Army Air Corp used to name training fields after the first Cadet Pilot to die there.

 

[StPaulDad]

Fine, but when the test is over you send guys who have been coughing up blood for days to sick call, not their barracks. When you have a medical officer he has to answer his calls. When your process fails and guys have to call 911 you turn your attention on the system, not the soldiers who overcame your process to save a buddy. Have your crucible, but know when the measuring is done and it's time to take care of your own again.

 

[usna1985]

If only 10% of people who enter any program (and who are selected based on criteria set up by the leadership of that program) complete the program, IMHO, there's a problem with the program.

In my day, roughly 25% of each USNA entering class attrited. The Navy realized they were spending a lot of money, time and human effort to attract the right and "best" candidates -- losing 25% of them didn't seem to make sense. So, they tweaked the program to provide more support to mids (especially with academics). Some would say they made the program easier. I don't think so, but the model has changed from: "If you fail (leave), you weren't tough / strong /smart enough," to "If you want to be here, we'll help you succeed."

Losing 90% (or even 60%) of SEAL candidates seems a huge waste of time and effort in the training program and makes one wonder if they have the proper selection criteria up front. Also makes one wonder if the SEALS are attriting people for the sake of exclusivity vs. what they really need in a good SEAL.

If the reports of drug use are true (not saying they are), that would be concerning. If you can't get through training without PEDs, are you going to be able to get through your missions w/o them? And do we want folks with PEDs in their system participating in or leading those missions?

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

I am not at all surprised that people will use steroids to get thru a grind like buds. I would expect it. What surprised me was that they were not getting tested .

I just wonder how deep this roid issue goes. I wonder how many people failed while refusing to use PEDs and how many passed only because they used.

i don’t know enough about PEDs to be offering an opinion. But I know an uneven playing field when I see one.

I’d be surprised if the US Govt is not developing PEDs as we speak for military spec ops use. But-if so that will not be un supervised and untested,

 

[StPaulDad]

Part of the 90% failure rate might be that the program is too cool and too many people want to try to climb that mountain. Everyone wants to go to BUD/S and be a SEAL and wear cool shades and be in a movie, and a lot of them are incredibly tough and could possibly do it, so what's the Navy to do? They may need to pre-screen a little harder so they don't have to waste two or three weeks mucking out "the turds".

 

[OldRetSWO]

Part of the 90% failure rate might be that the program is too cool and too many people want to try to climb that mountain. Everyone wants to go to BUD/S and be a SEAL and wear cool shades and be in a movie, and a lot of them are incredibly tough and could possibly do it, so what's the Navy to do? They may need to pre-screen a little harder so they don't have to waste two or three weeks mucking out "the turds".

The failure rate has always been very very high and that was even well before the vast majority had ever heard of the SEALs and before there were movies or books about them.

 

[SOG-SA]

What's a SEAL?

 

[Don't Give Up the Ship]

Navy Special Warfare operators. Good guys to have on your side during combat action.

Special Warfare Overview

Overview page for Special Warfare Careers at USNA.edu. Updated Mon May 15 10:29:11 EDT 2023.

www.usna.edu

SEAL OR SWCC TRAINING | SEALSWCC.COM

Navy SEAL or SWCC training and workout guides. SEAL or SWCC PST Calculator that ranks you against the top 100 BUD/S or Alpha Phase scores. SEAL or SWCC training pipelines and PST standards. Training blogs, podcasts and videos.

www.sealswcc.com

 

[Day-Tripper]

The Author is a National Correspondent for New York Times covering the military and a Pulitzer Prize winner. His works have never shown the military in a positive light and his Pulitzer was for articles claiming the US killed thousands of civilians in airstrikes in the middle east wars and covered it up. "Since 1953, at least 11 men have died". Give me the numbers for deaths in Basic Training, Flight Schools, Advanced Training and all other military training for any branch over the past sixty-nine years. My Father told me that the Army Air Corp used to name training fields after the first Cadet Pilot to die there.

David Phillips has won two Pulitzer Prizes.

He wrote a great book on Eddie Gallagher.

Amazon.com: Alpha: Eddie Gallagher and the War for the Soul of the Navy SEALs: 9780593238400: Philipps, David: Books

Amazon.com: Alpha: Eddie Gallagher and the War for the Soul of the Navy SEALs: 9780593238400: Philipps, David: Books

www.amazon.com

He also has a passion (for some reason) in saving America's wild horse population.

 

[Day-Tripper]

The Author is a National Correspondent for New York Times covering the military and a Pulitzer Prize winner. His works have never shown the military in a positive light and his Pulitzer was for articles claiming the US killed thousands of civilians in airstrikes in the middle east wars and covered it up. "Since 1953, at least 11 men have died". Give me the numbers for deaths in Basic Training, Flight Schools, Advanced Training and all other military training for any branch over the past sixty-nine years. My Father told me that the Army Air Corp used to name training fields after the first Cadet Pilot to die there.

Holy crap! 13,000 to 15,000 (!) US pilots were killed in training accidents at home in the States during World War Two. Never even made it overseas to fly against the Luftwaffe or Imperial Japanese.

WWII's Tragic Aviation Accidents

By Mason Webb It was Christmas Day, 1944. A U.S. Navy C-47 Skytrain with five men aboard was en route from Naval Air Station, Olathe, Kansas, to Columbus, Ohio. It was a routine training flight. The pilot was beginning his landing approach into the Indianapolis municipal airport but a heavy fog...

warfarehistorynetwork.com

"During World War II, more than 13,000 American aviators lost their lives in training accidents at home before they ever faced the enemy. Their sacrifice is all but forgotten today."

Sobering Stats: 15,000 U.S. Airmen Killed in Training in WW II

World War II was immense. So many numbers boggle the mind. Every day from Sept. 1, 1939-Aug. 14, 1945, 27,000 people were killed. That’s nine 9/11s every day for six years. Nearly 14 million Ame

www.realclearhistory.com

Staggering numbers.

 

[CatDog99]

Holy crap! 13,000 to 15,000 (!) US pilots were killed in training accidents at home in the States during World War Two. Never even made it overseas to fly against the Luftwaffe or Imperial Japanese.

WWII's Tragic Aviation Accidents

By Mason Webb It was Christmas Day, 1944. A U.S. Navy C-47 Skytrain with five men aboard was en route from Naval Air Station, Olathe, Kansas, to Columbus, Ohio. It was a routine training flight. The pilot was beginning his landing approach into the Indianapolis municipal airport but a heavy fog...

warfarehistorynetwork.com

"During World War II, more than 13,000 American aviators lost their lives in training accidents at home before they ever faced the enemy. Their sacrifice is all but forgotten today."

Sobering Stats: 15,000 U.S. Airmen Killed in Training in WW II

World War II was immense. So many numbers boggle the mind. Every day from Sept. 1, 1939-Aug. 14, 1945, 27,000 people were killed. That’s nine 9/11s every day for six years. Nearly 14 million Ame

www.realclearhistory.com

Staggering numbers.

I remember thinking the same thing when reading General Robin Olds' memoir (his daughter was the editor and it was published after his death). The legendary fighter pilot had people dying all around him in the training pipeline before he ever got to combat. Those were insane times.

 

[anom]

If only 10% of people who enter any program (and who are selected based on criteria set up by the leadership of that program) complete the program, IMHO, there's a problem with the program.

In my day, roughly 25% of each USNA entering class attrited. The Navy realized they were spending a lot of money, time and human effort to attract the right and "best" candidates -- losing 25% of them didn't seem to make sense. So, they tweaked the program to provide more support to mids (especially with academics). Some would say they made the program easier. I don't think so, but the model has changed from: "If you fail (leave), you weren't tough / strong /smart enough," to "If you want to be here, we'll help you succeed."

Losing 90% (or even 60%) of SEAL candidates seems a huge waste of time and effort in the training program and makes one wonder if they have the proper selection criteria up front. Also makes one wonder if the SEALS are attriting people for the sake of exclusivity vs. what they really need in a good SEAL.

If the reports of drug use are true (not saying they are), that would be concerning. If you can't get through training without PEDs, are you going to be able to get through your missions w/o them? And do we want folks with PEDs in their system participating in or leading those missions?

Would this be good for the community? I believe that would cause a lot of internal damage, especially with the seasoned SEALS.

"Also makes one wonder if the SEALS are attriting people for the sake of exclusivity vs. what they really need in a good SEAL." BUDS is the only selection course that does not actually "select." If you graduate BUDS, even with the bare minimum standards, you get to go to SQT and perhaps earn a trident.