Ask Me Anything; Granted waiver to study at Grad school after commissioning

[FastFood44]

Title says it all. Current 1/C MIDN. Was lucky enough to be one of the handful of people to get a waiver from the Navy to go to a civilian based *foreign* graduate school AFTER I commission, before heading off to flight school.

Timeline looks like this, with vague details on purpose for privacy reasons. After commissioning in the next month I will be heading off the a foreign university to study a Masters in an International Relations based program. It was approved by the Navy because it meets two criteria 1) Full private scholarship will pay for it all 2) Masters Program is relevant to the Navy and will help my career later on. After I graduate from the master's program I will head down to flight school. During my time in foreign country I will be a full officer in the Navy, including full pay and housing allowance etc.

I will not be gaining any more of a commitment than I originally have; it is technically a 3 year extra commitment but it is concurrent with my regular obligation, which essentially makes it zero. Here to answer literally any of your questions.

 

[navyfamilyof4]

Cool opportunity. Did you apply for this or were you approached by navy with the idea.

 

[usmagirl118]

How does the selection works for this ? I have seen fb posts that MIDS chosen for Rhodes, Fulbright scholarships.

 

[ROTCRecipient]

How did the application process go for you? Was it something like the Rhodes or Marshall scholarships? What you're doing is something that I would love to pursue during my career as well so any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[FastFood44]

Cool opportunity. Did you apply for this or were you approached by navy with the idea.

Based on my academic major and academic interest my LT encouraged me to apply for a waiver in general, but the particular program was one that I had sought out on my own time.

 

[FastFood44]

How does the selection works for this ? I have seen fb posts that MIDS chosen for Rhodes, Fulbright scholarships.

Selection for a scholarship is completely separate from the Navy. The Navy will choose to grant you the waiver or not after you get accepted for your specific scholarship. For example, let's say you are awarded Fulbright in April, you go through the waiver process once you get accepted, and the Navy decides whether or not it can afford to release you or if they need you in the community ASAP and then will deny your waiver.

 

[AS_05]

Thank you for volunteering your time to share what you know! I have a couple questions if you would be willing to answer them:
- How did you prepare while at the academy/what did you do to be qualified for the scholarship you received? Did you focus on academics/schoolwork over leadership or sports? Did this ever prevent you from participating in as many company activities?
- At what point did you decide you wanted to pursue grad school?
- Do you have any advice for mids/future mids that are interested in this option?

 

[FastFood44]

How did the application process go for you? Was it something like the Rhodes or Marshall scholarships? What you're doing is something that I would love to pursue during my career as well so any advice would be greatly appreciated!

August 2020 - apply through the government agencies/fellowships and submit application by end of the month. I applied to 5 different ones.
Sep- submit your community preferences, VERY IMPORTANT to include the fact that you are hoping to do grad school. Be honest with the Navy community selection board so they can pick the right community for you... goes a long way to getting the waiver later on
Sep-Mar- just wait!
Mar- got accepted to my program
Mar-Apr: Apply for waiver. This is a lengthy process, involved talking to 5-6 different Navy offices. Your LT will be the point person and tell you what to do and what to fill out. Wait anxiously!
Apr: Granted waiver!

 

[FastFood44]

How did the application process go for you? Was it something like the Rhodes or Marshall scholarships? What you're doing is something that I would love to pursue during my career as well so any advice would be greatly appreciated!

You can apply for virtually any Fellowship as long as it is to an allied country. For example, Rhodes, Marshall, Mitchell, Fulbright, etc. The only thing is you cannot apply to a non-allied country, for example they would not approve waivers for China or Russian universities.

 

[FastFood44]

Thank you for volunteering your time to share what you know! I have a couple questions if you would be willing to answer them:
- How did you prepare while at the academy/what did you do to be qualified for the scholarship you received? Did you focus on academics/schoolwork over leadership or sports? Did this ever prevent you from participating in as many company activities?
- At what point did you decide you wanted to pursue grad school?
- Do you have any advice for mids/future mids that are interested in this option?

1. Through ROTC I made sure to make myself the best possible MIDN I could be; this came in the form of trying my best in PT, academics, etc. This, by no means, meant I was ever the best. Throughout my four years I ranked anywhere from top 35-50% of my class. This put me in good standing with my CO, who wrote a letter of rec to the board.

The key is to show that you care about your academics. You are hoping to continue your education, so if it's not clear you care about your education during your undergrad, the scholarship board won't think they should spend money on you to go to more school. I ended freshman year with a subpar GPA, 3.1, while boosting it to a 3.5 by the time I applied to scholarships because I knew my 3.1 wasn't good enough. Also helps to be unique academically; while everyone majors in similar things (relatively) in NROTC, getting a unique minor helps. It's also important to do research during your time at school; everyone I know who got a waiver/fellowship did academic research for at least 6 months. This is important to show that you care a lot about academics.

I focused A LOT on my extra circulars; I was in multiple top leadership positions in my school, including Class President and other higher ranking campus wide positions. I would say I dedicated almost as much time to extra ciriculars as I did to academics. Keep in mind that you are applying for Rhodes, Fulbright etc alongside civilians who do not have the added time commitment of ROTC. You want your application to be strong alongside theirs... doing ROTC is not an "excuse" in the board's eyes to not be well rounded (even though I know how much time it can take up). I never had to sacrifice my ROTC commitments though, as I was chosen for a top three billet my senior year.

2. I decided VERY late; about one week before I started applying in Aug before my senior year!

3. I said it before, but because you are competing with civilians for scholarship spots, you have to really take all 4 yrs of college seriously, as some of these people are doing amazing things by the end of their first year. Get involved early and often, both in extra circulars but also in academic programs.

 

[AS_05]

1. Through ROTC I made sure to make myself the best possible MIDN I could be; this came in the form of trying my best in PT, academics, etc. This, by no means, meant I was ever the best. Throughout my four years I ranked anywhere from top 35-50% of my class. This put me in good standing with my CO, who wrote a letter of rec to the board.

The key is to show that you care about your academics. You are hoping to continue your education, so if it's not clear you care about your education during your undergrad, the scholarship board won't think they should spend money on you to go to more school. I ended freshman year with a subpar GPA, 3.1, while boosting it to a 3.5 by the time I applied to scholarships because I knew my 3.1 wasn't good enough. Also helps to be unique academically; while everyone majors in similar things (relatively) in NROTC, getting a unique minor helps. It's also important to do research during your time at school; everyone I know who got a waiver/fellowship did academic research for at least 6 months. This is important to show that you care a lot about academics.

I focused A LOT on my extra circulars; I was in multiple top leadership positions in my school, including Class President and other higher ranking campus wide positions. I would say I dedicated almost as much time to extra ciriculars as I did to academics. Keep in mind that you are applying for Rhodes, Fulbright etc alongside civilians who do not have the added time commitment of ROTC. You want your application to be strong alongside theirs... doing ROTC is not an "excuse" in the board's eyes to not be well rounded (even though I know how much time it can take up). I never had to sacrifice my ROTC commitments though, as I was chosen for a top three billet my senior year.

2. I decided VERY late; about one week before I started applying in Aug before my senior year!

3. I said it before, but because you are competing with civilians for scholarship spots, you have to really take all 4 yrs of college seriously, as some of these people are doing amazing things by the end of their first year. Get involved early and often, both in extra circulars but also in academic programs.

Thank you for the response and good luck in grad school!

 

[ProudDad17]

So, is your active duty commitment still 8 years after finishing flight school? So the time you are spending on your Master's is not counting toward your active duty obligation?

Congratulations first on your commissioning and second on the waiver. I've enjoyed your posts over the years, especially as you are the same class year as my DS.

 

[Go Dores!]

@FastFood44 - Much like @ProudDad17, I too have enjoyed your posts here on the forum.

For others in a similar situation as you (aviation selects considering graduate pursuits after commission, but before flight school), I'd love to hear what advice your were given on the potential career impacts of delaying your start in flight school compared to your year group peers who will hit fleet flight qualification gates and milestones well prior to you.

 

[Capt MJ]

@FastFood44 - Much like @ProudDad17, I too have enjoyed your posts here on the forum.

For others in a similar situation as you (aviation selects considering graduate pursuits after commission, but before flight school), I'd love to hear what advice your were given on the potential career impacts of delaying your start in flight school compared to your year group peers who will hit fleet flight qualification gates and milestones well prior to you.

That is indeed the trade-off as we have counseled USNA sponsor mids who have trod this path. They will be 1-2 years behind classmates in warfare qualifications on any platform, so the descent from the ivory tower will be steep, painful and stressful as they work to catch up professionally. But - when the others are doing the more normal career path and working on their Master’s on their first shore duty rotation, the ones in this group - provided they have been stellar in their operational role and overcome their way-back-in-the-pack status to surge to the head of their comparative group, have the opportunity to consider other assignments for shore duty. One of ours who went to Cambridge, slogged through the ivory tower fall as the “stupidest JG on my ship (their word),” became the CNO’s junior speech writer. Others become flag aides, because it is notoriously hard to get your Master’s if you are an aide.

One of our good friends, a retired 4-star USNA grad with eye-watering academic and operational credentials, offers this bit of advice. If that particular degree from a certain ‘marquee name’ school is worth it to you to glow on your I-love-me wall in perpetuity, then go for it. Otherwise, get out to the Fleet and Corps and learn your warfare specialty, then take your experience and maturity and enjoy switching your brain to academic mode again in your next shore duty. We can buy all the people with advanced degrees we need through contracts.”

 

[ProudDad17]

@FastFood44 - Much like @ProudDad17, I too have enjoyed your posts here on the forum.

For others in a similar situation as you (aviation selects considering graduate pursuits after commission, but before flight school), I'd love to hear what advice your were given on the potential career impacts of delaying your start in flight school compared to your year group peers who will hit fleet flight qualification gates and milestones well prior to you.

I wondered the same thing as well. As well as how this would affect promotion while in grad school, since O-1s are generally eligible for promotion to O-2 at about 24 months time in grade.

 

[93RN]

That is indeed the trade-off as we have counseled sponsor mids who have trod this path. They will be 1-2 years behind classmates in warfare qualifications on any platform, so the descent from the ivory tower will be steep, painful and stressful as they work to catch up professionally. But - when the others are doing the more normal career path and working on their Master’s on their first shore duty rotation, the ones in this group - provided they have been stellar in their operational role and overcome their way-back-in-the-pack status to surge to the head of their comparative group, have the opportunity to consider other assignments for shore duty. One of ours who went to Cambridge, slogged through the ivory tower fall as the “stupidest JG on my ship (their word),” became the CNO’s junior speech writer. Others become flag aides, because it is notoriously hard to get your Master’s if you are an aide.

One of our good friends, a retired 4-star with eye-watering academic credentials, offers this bit of advice. If that particular degree from a certain ‘marquee name’ school is worth it to you to glow on your I-love-me wall in perpetuity, then go for it. Otherwise, get out to the Fleet and Corps and learn your warfare specialty. We can buy all the people with advanced degrees we need through contracts.”

“If that particular degree from a certain ‘marquee name’ school is worth it to you to glow on your I-love-me wall in perpetuity, then go for it.”

 

[Capt MJ]

I wondered the same thing as well. As well as how this would affect promotion while in grad school, since O-1s are generally eligible for promotion to O-2 at about 24 months time in grade.

The promotion from O-1 to O-2 is fog-a-mirror. Their type duty is “DUINS,” duty under instruction, with none of the usual blocks on the annual fitness report checked for leadership, warfare qual status, etc. As long as they stay out of trouble, maintain physical fitness and are in good academic standing, they will promote. O-2 to O-3 is roughly the same. The first competitive boards start at O-4.

 

[ProudDad17]

Thanks. I wasn't sure if this type of assignment delayed promotion.

 

[Capt MJ]

Thanks. I wasn't sure if this type of assignment delayed promotion.

Not at all. There are many DUINS periods during an officer career, either full-time degree programs or professional schools required as part of a set of new orders.
We’ve had sponsor family alumni at MIT, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Cambridge, Harvard, etc., where they are administratively assigned to the nearest Navy or Marine Corps command for chain of command, fitness reports, annual PRT, leave request approval, etc. When I was an XO of a Naval Station, I was the administrative reporting senior for about a dozen prior enlisted personnel getting their college degrees full-time DUINS at area universities as part of an enlisted commissioning program. They came to see me once a quarter, did their PRT with us, I signed their leave papers and fitreps, which were essentially “NOB,” except for comments about academic standing.

 

[FastFood44]

Thank you for the response and good luck in grad school!

I want to reiterate a final point; it is not good enough to "pass through" school/ROTC. You should always be taking academics seriously, putting yourself out there to do the

It should be noted that not every

So, is your active duty commitment still 8 years after finishing flight school? So the time you are spending on your Master's is not counting toward your active duty obligation?

Congratulations first on your commissioning and second on the waiver. I've enjoyed your posts over the years, especially as you are the same class year as my DS.

Yes, active duty commitment is exactly the same. And thank you for your kind words!