Awarded AFROTC HSSP Scholarships Statistics?

[Jdjuli]

No, we were told he was highly recommended for a scholarship and the board passed anyway. Said they had major budget cuts. I don't think introspection is needed here. Would you like to speak to my son? Then you will understand the truth. Happy to set up a call and you can give feedback if you think there are ways to improve. He is open to that. We are a flying family and we got let down here after doing everything to be part of this. It is crushing.

From what I understand there has been more retention recently than in past years. This means that they did not offer as many scholarships this year. From what I've read on here is that the scholarships were late to come out because they did not have the retention data yet. If I am wrong someone please correct me, but they make a decision of how many scholarships to give based on the officer retention. Seems like your son might have just missed the cut and could have possibly been given a scholarship in years past when more were given out. At this point, however, there is no point complaining about the system. The decision has been made. I recommend that if he wants to be an officer in the AF for him to join an AFROTC detachment and apply for a scholarship in-college. I'm sure your son is disappointed. Support him. Guide him in the right direction to improve himself, but I advise against blaming the system. It breeds stagnation and hatred. Be the good role model he needs and show him that he can pick himself up, get past this setback, and succeed. If he is truly as great as you say he is I am sure he has great things in his future.

 

[franknd]

No, we were told he was highly recommended for a scholarship and the board passed anyway. Said they had major budget cuts. I don't think introspection is needed here. Would you like to speak to my son? Then you will understand the truth. Happy to set up a call and you can give feedback if you think there are ways to improve. He is open to that. We are a flying family and we got let down here after doing everything to be part of this. NOT a single B in high school and 1560 SAT when it was hard to take it and he only took it twice and the AF doesn't think he should get a scholarship. I don't get it. It is crushing. Life changing decision by a board that didn't look closely at him.

Where is he going to school; or better yet, where has he been accepted? I ask because one of the things we never know -- and they never say -- is how they evaluate use of their own resources. People like to believe that prospective tuition doesn't come into play, but I can't help but think that can be erroneous. Now if he had a state school on his list and they didn't offer a Type 7, that would undercut my thinking in this case. Nevertheless, a while back there was a HS student who started a thread about being passed over by NROTC for a scholarship despite his admission to Stanford. Well, if I were the Navy, and I was considering one candidate going to Stanford vs, what, three or four going to Berkeley or UCLA? You get my drift.

Bottom line, this doesn't have to be crushing. It's a disappointing setback for sure; and it's hard to understand given the facts you've written (at least IMO), but your son seems like he should have little problem earning a campus-based scholarship.

 

[Jdjuli]

Where is he going to school; or better yet, where has he been accepted? I ask because one of the things we never know -- and they never say -- is how they evaluate use of their own resources. People like to believe that prospective tuition doesn't come into play, but I can't help but think that can be erroneous. Now if he had a state school on his list and they didn't offer a Type 7, that would undercut my thinking in this case. Nevertheless, a while back there was a HS student who started a thread about being passed over by NROTC for a scholarship despite his admission to Stanford. Well, if I were the Navy, and I was considering one candidate going to Stanford vs, what, three or four going to Berkeley or UCLA? You get my drift.

Bottom line, this doesn't have to be crushing. It's a disappointing setback for sure; and it's hard to understand given the facts you've written (at least IMO), but your son seems like he should have little problem earning a campus-based scholarship.

Totally agree. Think it is also important to understand that ROTC scholarship and college admission are two separate beasts. You might be admitted to all the top colleges but might not get an ROTC scholarship because the selection process for the two are different and the two institutions are looking for different things.

 

[gibsontrio]

Bottom line, this doesn't have to be crushing. It's a disappointing setback for sure; and it's hard to understand given the facts you've written (at least IMO), but your son seems like he should have little problem earning a campus-based scholarship.

Could not say it better than this.
Surely with your son's stats, scholarship money is coming from all directions at this point? My son's test scores came nowhere near yours but he's gotten very large merit offers from every applied school and many external scholarships to the point where he did not feel he would be upset if he did not get the afrotc scholarship. I told my son before the results came out that the scholarship is JUST money, qualification, and desire to serve are completely separate from the scholarship money, and quite frankly a more important factor.
Disappointment is hard in any circumstance, but it is a life lesson everyone needs to learn ( ESPECIALLY when you are considering joining the service). There's always the opportunity to join ROTC for your son without the scholarship, there's also the USAFA application for next year and OTS after college! He could also enlist and go officer after some experience.

With that said, the AFROTC HQ board knows what they are doing and has been doing it for a very long time. Each applicant is given a point value for each category (a hard google search gives you an idea of the #'s). Clearly, the interview is highest, then ACT/SAT, etc.. Unfortunately, something on your son's application wasn't maxed out. We all think our kids are the greatest, but the reality is sometimes there's someone more qualified.

 

[mtnwing]

Could not say it better than this.
Surely with your son's stats, scholarship money is coming from all directions at this point? My son's test scores came nowhere near yours but he's gotten very large merit offers from every applied school and many external scholarships to the point where he did not feel he would be upset if he did not get the afrotc scholarship. I told my son before the results came out that the scholarship is JUST money, qualification, and desire to serve are completely separate from the scholarship money, and quite frankly a more important factor.
Disappointment is hard in any circumstance, but it is a life lesson everyone needs to learn ( ESPECIALLY when you are considering joining the service). There's always the opportunity to join ROTC for your son without the scholarship, there's also the USAFA application for next year and OTS after college! He could also enlist and go officer after some experience.

With that said, the AFROTC HQ board knows what they are doing and has been doing it for a very long time. Each applicant is given a point value for each category (a hard google search gives you an idea of the #'s). Clearly, the interview is highest, then ACT/SAT, etc.. Unfortunately, something on your son's application wasn't maxed out. We all think our kids are the greatest, but the reality is sometimes there's someone more qualified.

No you are wrong. He was most qualified. Sorry to say that but I have all the numbers and letters and everything else to prove that. Someone at the board was asleep at the cockpit. Challenge me and I will get on a call and show you with my son. Asleep.

 

[aircruiser]

No, we were told he was highly recommended for a scholarship and the board passed anyway. Said they had major budget cuts. I don't think introspection is needed here. Would you like to speak to my son? Then you will understand the truth. Happy to set up a call and you can give feedback if you think there are ways to improve. He is open to that. We are a flying family and we got let down here after doing everything to be part of this. NOT a single B in high school and 1560 SAT when it was hard to take it and he only took it twice and the AF doesn't think he should get a scholarship. I don't get it. It is crushing. Life changing decision by a board that didn't look closely at him.

Anything above 1500 SAT + 4.0 GPA is an 80% probability of securing an award most years. This doesn't discount the interview, but the simple fact is that a 1560 SAT kid will usually come across as smart and capable of leadership. We might not like it, but I.Q. / SAT / GPA / interview skills all correlate strongly. So here are 3 potential things that may have gone wrong in your case:

1. Awards have been cut back extremely hard (due to COVID etc).
2. Something fundamentally went wrong during the interview.
3. Board is considering "other" factors in its decision-making process.

We'll know more about #1 soon. #2 and #3 are frankly opaque. Either way, with a 1560 SAT score and clearly strong family support this is unlikely to make a significant dent in your son's future success.

 

[mtnwing]

How should he feel when he shows up and his classmates with lessor scores have a scholarship and he doesn't. And he probably can't even show because we are not able to pay. Sad that a best in the nation gets sent to Walmart.

 

[mtnwing]

Anything above 1500 SAT + 4.0 GPA is an 80% probability of securing an award most years. This doesn't discount the interview, but the simple fact is that a 1560 SAT kid will usually come across as smart and capable of leadership. We might not like it, but I.Q. / SAT / GPA / interview skills all correlate strongly. So here are 3 potential things that may have gone wrong in your case:

1. Awards have been cut back extremely hard (due to COVID etc).
2. Something fundamentally went wrong during the interview.
3. Board is considering "other" factors in its decision-making process.

We'll know more about #1 soon. #2 and #3 are frankly opaque. Either way, with a 1560 SAT score and clearly strong family support this is unlikely to make a significant dent in your son's future success.

Do you recommend a gap year and reapply. We are pretty much screwed here.

 

[mtnwing]

Anything above 1500 SAT + 4.0 GPA is an 80% probability of securing an award most years. This doesn't discount the interview, but the simple fact is that a 1560 SAT kid will usually come across as smart and capable of leadership. We might not like it, but I.Q. / SAT / GPA / interview skills all correlate strongly. So here are 3 potential things that may have gone wrong in your case:

1. Awards have been cut back extremely hard (due to COVID etc).
2. Something fundamentally went wrong during the interview.
3. Board is considering "other" factors in its decision-making process.

We'll know more about #1 soon. #2 and #3 are frankly opaque. Either way, with a 1560 SAT score and clearly strong family support this is unlikely to make a significant dent in your son's future success.

I spoke to the interviewer and he was highly recommended. He doesn't know what went wrong. That is just wrong as a parent.

 

[mtnwing]

I spoke to the interviewer and he was highly recommended. He doesn't know what went wrong. That is just wrong as a parent.

He is also Mensa. This boggles my mind what just happened.

 

[mtnwing]

He is also Mensa. This boggles my mind what just happened.

happy to post transcripts and proof of all of this. facts. sad.

 

[franknd]

Anything above 1500 SAT + 4.0 GPA is an 80% probability of securing an award most years. This doesn't discount the interview, but the simple fact is that a 1560 SAT kid will usually come across as smart and capable of leadership. We might not like it, but I.Q. / SAT / GPA / interview skills all correlate strongly. So here are 3 potential things that may have gone wrong in your case:

1. Awards have been cut back extremely hard (due to COVID etc).
2. Something fundamentally went wrong during the interview.
3. Board is considering "other" factors in its decision-making process.

We'll know more about #1 soon. #2 and #3 are frankly opaque. Either way, with a 1560 SAT score and clearly strong family support this is unlikely to make a significant dent in your son's future success.

That's why I asked about school of attendance and schools of acceptance. I don't know what the rules were this year, but if, for example, the student submitted his AFROTC application with one school, and let's say in this example, binding ED admission to MIT or Cal Tech, well, how does AFROTC use its resources in this example? It's not a no-brainer, at least to me.

And let's further hypothesize that AFROTC had an unusually high "upgrade" rate from their first board Type 7 offers to kids who were accepted to the "Ivy-plus" list they published I think in early March. What effect did that have?

Again, my overall point is that there are other factors that we'll never know that literally have nothing to do with the applicant's qualifications, even assuming a solid (or at least non-fatal) interview.

 

[franknd]

He is also Mensa. This boggles my mind what just happened.

Top 2%. Literally everybody, I suspect, at MIT or Cal Tech is Mensa qualified, as are probably the vast majority at every Ivy. Just saying. . . .

 

[hopefulcandidate2025]

How should he feels when he shows up and his classmates with lessor scores have a scholarship and he doesn't. And he probably can't even show because we are not able to pay. Sad that a best in the nation gets sent to Walmart.

This amazing young man is not being sent to Walmart. The credentials you describe are only the beginning of a bright future for him. An AFROTC declination is not going to make or break him as with these scores he is headed in a positive direction no matter where he goes. I had this same talk with my son after he received his TWE from USAFA this year. You get up, you brush it off, you work even harder for what you want your future to be. One single rejection doesn’t dictate your future, it’s just a part of life we all encounter at some point.

 

[Jdjuli]

happy to post transcripts and proof of all of this. facts. sad.

Please do not post any of your son's personal information without his consent. If he is not already 18 he will be soon, and he is leaving the nest soon. There is no reason to prove how smart, qualified, amazing, etc... your son is to any of us. We cannot do anything to change his scholarship. Everything you have said so far about his credentials shows what a bright future he has. Yes this is a setback, but he must learn to get back up and continue. You are being a terrible role model for him by saying he is being sent to Walmart or is no longer college bound. He will be fine. There is still time to apply for other scholarships. Talk to the financial aid office at his college of choice. He seems like a smart amazing young man. Do not let this hold him back. Push him to work harder. We all have something we need to work on; none of us are perfect (even the ones who say they are). This rejection might change his immediate future, but if he works hard he will come out of this better than he started.

 

[franknd]

Sad that a best in the nation gets sent to Walmart.

TBH, this sounds like you're trolling now. A comment like this isn't something that would suit a future officer well at all.

 

[Capt MJ]

@mtnwing
So sorry this is frustrating in every aspect. As your son and the family begin to re-focus, the goal, I assume, continues to be commissioning as an Air Force officer.

Questions to ponder, don’t need answers here:

- Given his record, has he been able to snag merit aid at any schools that offer AFROTC OR can he afford a school that has a cross-town partnership with the school with the AFROTC unit?
- Once in a AFROTC unit, he can apply those stellar skills and become a top-performing cadet, earn a 3-year scholarship.

College Student Scholarship Types | Scholarships | U.S. Air Force ROTC

Learn about the types of scholarships available to college students and full details of each offering.

www.afrotc.com

- Go where he can afford to go with any scholarships he can get, to a school he likes and feels he would enjoy, and apply for OTC, where he would go after graduation. That is a highly selective program which brings in officers who have performed extraordinarily well academically, with a well-rounded college experience, who qualify in all other areas. Yes, he doesn’t quite get the deeper professional exposure of USAFA or AFROTC, but OTS/OCS grads catch up very quickly. The commissioning source effect wears off after a year or two, and it’s performance that counts.

Officer Training School - U.S. Air Force

Learn about Officer Training School, a nine-and-a-half-week program that is organized into four phases designed to challenge you both mentally and physically.

www.airforce.com

- Gap year - if your kid is a Ferrari, why run idly in the garage? Unless - there is some knock-everyone’s-socks-off opportunity for some unusual personal growth and development, such as volunteering abroad for a year or a paid internship. Peace Corps volunteers can be 18...

These are only offered as food for thought. Your son’s gifts put him in an enviable position with many open doors.

 

[running lights]

No, we were told he was highly recommended for a scholarship and the board passed anyway. Said they had major budget cuts. I don't think introspection is needed here. Would you like to speak to my son? Then you will understand the truth. Happy to set up a call and you can give feedback if you think there are ways to improve. He is open to that. We are a flying family and we got let down here after doing everything to be part of this. NOT a single B in high school and 1560 SAT when it was hard to take it and he only took it twice and the AF doesn't think he should get a scholarship. I don't get it. It is crushing. Life changing decision by a board that didn't look closely at him.

Hang in there mtnwing. I feel your pain. Things work out. They always do. My DS, though a well-rounded and qualified 1st try applicant, missed the cut this week on the USAFA and USNA, USCG last week, and is now going with his plan "A-", AFROTC 4yr type 7 at UF. Not what he and I prefered but that is where things landed. His stats were not what yours were but very competitive nevertheless (1420 SAT/ 3.89GPA / 14th HS rank / AP everything / top 3rd CFA score / 2yrs varsity / MOC nom) , particularly with the USAFA since he was in CAP for 7yrs, Captain rank, Squadron CMDR, and a more than excellent ALO interview. I am not sure if he will go through the SA selection process again, which make me sad when I think about that, but it is his path to take. I've done my part, now it is up to him. I heard NROTC was tighter in terms of available slots than AFROTC this year, so we are thankful that we chose that backup plan. I know it is painful, but with what you have described, there is no reason why he won't go on and do great things. If he really wants it, my advise is try again next cycle.

 

[WMTA]

How should he feel when he shows up and his classmates with lessor scores have a scholarship and he doesn't. And he probably can't even show because we are not able to pay. Sad that a best in the nation gets sent to Walmart.

I'm going to take a swing at this. I'm not sure if you are trolling or not, but it certainly sounds like it. So, what should he (and you) do:

1) Stop coming off as entitled. My DS's interviewer didn't say whether or not he was recommended and it seems odd to me that your DS's acknowledged this. We all have some accomplished kids, and quite a few of those accomplished kids weren't awarded scholarships. All should have been prepared to not be offered based upon indications of the delay from the 2nd board and the info leaked about retention issues, current cadets being asked to cross-commission, and cadets being told that only top would qualify for field training.
2) With those stats, your son should have received merit scholarships to the schools to which he applied.
3) A local, state university should always have been a back-up plan. Live at home saving room and board, qualify for school scholarships, and afford college the old fashioned way. This was my DS's back-up plan. He had a merit scholarship there and planned to live at home to cover room and board. Sure, he'd have to commute the 30 minutes one-way, but it would have allowed him to save a load and still maintain his current job.
4) Join the AFROTC unit regardless of scholarship, putting aside ego, and knocking out of the park the PFA, demonstration of willingness to serve, and demonstration of leadership which will go a long way towards earning an in-school scholarship.
5) Get a job right now and start saving money. My DS is working at a pizza place delivering pizza 30 hours a week, playing high school baseball, AND carrying a full academic load. Yes, he was offered a scholarship, but he didn't know if he would be. He is 100% responsible for paying for his college education. He has been saving for some time. I'm sure that helped demonstrate to his interviewer his ability to carry a heavy load.

What not to do is what you are currently doing.

 

[SOG-SA]

No you are wrong. He was most qualified. Sorry to say that but I have all the numbers and letters and everything else to prove that. Someone at the board was asleep at the cockpit. Challenge me and I will get on a call and show you with my son. Asleep.

No offense intended....but your son, while appearing to have some exceptional stats...was clearly NOT considered the most qualified. The reason for that decision is in the hands of USAF ROTC, and I'm quite certain they are more capable of making such decisions than you are.

Look....everyone thinks their kid is great (well....at least 50/50....or a smidge less, depending on whether or not they stole the last cookie), but the USAF has no interest in what mom or dad thinks of little Johnny or Jenny...nor is the USAF inclined to pick people up for the SAs or ROTC programs, based upon Uncle Bill's interpretation of the kid's character. If they did, it would have been part of the application process, and mom/dad/uncle/cousin-6-times-removed would have been interviewed, as well. The Air Force has undergone significant pull-back on manning requirements, and they have particulars in mind, with respect to the slots they want filled. The fact you disagree with their decision doesn't make them wrong...nor does it make the people on this forum wrong. Many folks here are trying to talk you off of the proverbial ledge and offer rational and reasonable explanations of how the process works, and what the next step for your kid could/should be.

Any parent who wants success for their child...and witnesses that success opportunity pass them by...is going to feel frustration. I believe most parents have been there, at some point. Maybe this is your first time with it, which is why it's so hard for you to accept the reality of this situation? Maybe the interviewer gave their unofficial opinion of the interview itself, when it would have been better for him/her to remain quiet? Fact is...the ROTC Board people made the call, based upon the needs of the Air Force.

If you're inclined to listen to those willing to offer help...how about you tell your son to refocus his efforts, reassess the process he just went through, and make a decision if he wants to make another play for it? In-state schools are a viable option...many of which work with ROTC programs to make it more appealing and affordable. Even if it's a cross-town solution. Even if he lives at home, and commutes. Even if it starts at a Community College. And if his stats are as solid as you claim...and he continues down that academic/athletic/service path he's started...I can't see how he couldn't pick up a school-based ROTC scholarship quite quickly.