C-17 Carrying USAFA Women's Basketball Team Makes Allegedly Unauthorized Landing at Stillwater, OK Airport, Damages Runway

[tornadowarning33]

Stillwater Regional Airport runway damaged due to ‘unauthorized military aircraft landing’

Yikes

The story mentions that AF baseball made a similar request to land a C-17 in October when they were travelling to Stillwater for a fall ball game against OK State but were denied because of weight concerns. This looks like an "ask forgiveness later" situation since they likely knew they would get the same answer.

 

[JP4]

It identified as a Cessna.

 

[flieger83]

Uh oh...

Okay, as a former senior officer/aviator and one that has had to sit on a FEB (Flight Evaluation Board) my initial reaction is to question whether either pilot read the IFR Supplement that gives information like weight capacity, fuel available, etc...etc. And then I refer back to the approach plates for Stillwater Airport which is required when flying to an airfield not your own and the runway information:

Runway 17/35​

Dimensions:​	7401 x 100 ft. / 2256 x 30 m
Surface:​	concrete/grooved, in good condition
Weight bearing capacity:​	Single wheel: 100.0, STRENGTHS BASED ON RESTRICTED OPS. Double wheel: 157.0 Double tandem: 310.0

Hmm, well, there it is plain as day.

And then there's that comment about "24 HR PPR FOR UNSKED ACR OPS WITH MORE THAN 9 PAX SEATS - AMGR."
I'm thinking there are a couple of AF pilots that are looking at losing their qualifications...will they lose their wings? Probably not but this will NOT be a career enhancement.

 

[Iwutke]

Somewhere there is more to this story. Landing took place around noon Sunday. Game wasn’t until Tuesday night. Teams usually arrive the day before, not two. I understand no classes. An entire extra day of hotels, meals, entertainment, etc. Unnecessary expenses out of athletic budget that they could use elsewhere. Is USAFA closed down that they couldn’t wait to fly out on Monday? Do USAFA teams always travel by cargo plane, or just when they want to, or have to? Maybe Stillwater is the hot vacation spot of the Southwest, or the team wanted extra time shopping for western wear and hats?

 

[UHBlackhawk]

Uh oh...

Okay, as a former senior officer/aviator and one that has had to sit on a FEB (Flight Evaluation Board) my initial reaction is to question whether either pilot read the IFR Supplement that gives information like weight capacity, fuel available, etc...etc. And then I refer back to the approach plates for Stillwater Airport which is required when flying to an airfield not your own and the runway information:

Runway 17/35​

Dimensions:​	7401 x 100 ft. / 2256 x 30 m
Surface:​	concrete/grooved, in good condition
Weight bearing capacity:​	Single wheel: 100.0, STRENGTHS BASED ON RESTRICTED OPS. Double wheel: 157.0 Double tandem: 310.0

Hmm, well, there it is plain as day.

And then there's that comment about "24 HR PPR FOR UNSKED ACR OPS WITH MORE THAN 9 PAX SEATS - AMGR."
I'm thinking there are a couple of AF pilots that are looking at losing their qualifications...will they lose their wings? Probably not but this will NOT be a career enhancement.

Saved me the time of looking it up. Yeah, kind of hard to miss. I would think it would be one of the first preplanning items to look at with an unfamiliar field. Even in a RW we had to look at it as there were some where our GW would exceed the runway or ramp capacity.

 

[tornadowarning33]

Somewhere there is more to this story. Landing took place around noon Sunday. Game wasn’t until Tuesday night. Teams usually arrive the day before, not two. I understand no classes. An entire extra day of hotels, meals, entertainment, etc. Unnecessary expenses out of athletic budget that they could use elsewhere. Is USAFA closed down that they couldn’t wait to fly out on Monday? Do USAFA teams always travel by cargo plane, or just when they want to, or have to? Maybe Stillwater is the hot vacation spot of the Southwest, or the team wanted extra time shopping for western wear and hats?

Every Stillwater trip needs an extra day built in for bacon cheese fries at Eskimo Joe’s.

 

[Capt MJ]

Every Stillwater trip needs an extra day built in for bacon cheese fries at Eskimo Joe’s.

Root cause analysis right there.

 

[cb7893]

I hate to disturb the Christmas spirit, but a C-17 for a basketball team? Is it possible to be so self-unaware? Do they need the cargo area for an in flight scrimmage or to run suicides?

 

[UHBlackhawk]

I hate to disturb the Christmas spirit, but a C-17 for a basketball team? Is it possible to be so self-unaware? Do they need the cargo area for an in flight scrimmage or to run suicides?

I’m sure it was what was available. I’m not sure how the SAs decide what to use, but sometimes it’s a civilian charter, sometimes military airlift. For passenger carrying, not many options, c-130 or C-17…. or C-5 which would really be overkill. A couple other types… I know the Navy and Air Force use some militarized 737s. But C-17s are more numerous.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

… my airline sometimes does SA sports charters. My brother, USNA ‘78, flies for Achme Air Lines (two words), and he has flown the USNA team to Ireland for the Notre Dame game.

 

[Stealth_81]

I hate to disturb the Christmas spirit, but a C-17 for a basketball team? Is it possible to be so self-unaware? Do they need the cargo area for an in flight scrimmage or to run suicides?

When they use airlift assets it is usually a training flight that was going to happen anyway so there is no extra cost to Uncle Sam. Son’s team used to use the C-130s out of Peterson for their meets.

Stealth_81

 

[cb7893]

When they use airlift assets it is usually a training flight that was going to happen anyway so there is no extra cost to Uncle Sam. Son’s team used to use the C-130s out of Peterson for their meets.

Stealth_81

I was hoping as much.

You have to admit that an inflight scrimmage was pretty good visual..

Merry Christmas to you and all the Moderators!

 

[conrack]

Using military aircraft to transport sports teams violates the ban on using taxpayer money to fund athletics. There was a big stink about this several years ago when NBC did a story about USAFA in one of their "Fleecing of America" segments regarding transport of cadets to football games; it was then decreed that they would have to pay a fee for doing so.

 

[tornadowarning33]

Using military aircraft to transport sports teams violates the ban on using taxpayer money to fund athletics. There was a big stink about this several years ago when NBC did a story about USAFA in one of their "Fleecing of America" segments regarding transport of cadets to football games; it was then decreed that they would have to pay a fee for doing so.

When they use airlift assets it is usually a training flight that was going to happen anyway so there is no extra cost to Uncle Sam. Son’s team used to use the C-130s out of Peterson for their meets.

Stealth_81

I suppose "fund athletics" is a pretty broad phrase. I'm sure there's a lot of NAF that goes into the athletic program, but I would guess that most, if not all, civilian staff are paid with appropriated funds.

 

[shiner]

I hate to disturb the Christmas spirit, but a C-17 for a basketball team? Is it possible to be so self-unaware? Do they need the cargo area for an in flight scrimmage or to run suicides?

Military Airlift is available to clubs and teams. Revenue Sports tend to use commercial charter or regular airline tickets. As a club team captain, I would enter the request via email and receive confirmation from dispatch. That request went on a big board of needs and active, guard, or reserve units could "claim" the sortie and use it for a planned training flight. These units fly all the time - EMPTY. So, it is nice to know we are saving in other areas by flying someone around that needs to get from A to B.

As a "customer," you always needed to have a back-up plan in the event the supporting unit had to cancel the "mission" or there was a maintenance issue. It was common for the team to plan a trip, book commercial airline tickets, request airlift support -- and then wait. If your sortie got picked up, you then cancel the commercial tickets. The GOV rate on commercial is full fare (way more expensive) but you can cancel at no cost. Planning for either path would ensure you could still go on your trip, but the team budget goes a lot further when flying milair at no cost to the cadet or team.

As a requestor, you simply enter the number of PAX and the estimate of how much gear you were bringing with you. The plane that picks up the mission could be anything that met the need. The USAFA Cadet band travels with several planes each week to get all of the cargo where they need to be.

 

[Usnavy2019]

Military Airlift is available to clubs and teams. Revenue Sports tend to use commercial charter or regular airline tickets. As a club team captain, I would enter the request via email and receive confirmation from dispatch. That request went on a big board of needs and active, guard, or reserve units could "claim" the sortie and use it for a planned training flight. These units fly all the time - EMPTY. So, it is nice to know we are saving in other areas by flying someone around that needs to get from A to B.

As a "customer," you always needed to have a back-up plan in the event the supporting unit had to cancel the "mission" or there was a maintenance issue. It was common for the team to plan a trip, book commercial airline tickets, request airlift support -- and then wait. If your sortie got picked up, you then cancel the commercial tickets. The GOV rate on commercial is full fare (way more expensive) but you can cancel at no cost. Planning for either path would ensure you could still go on your trip, but the team budget goes a lot further when flying milair at no cost to the cadet or team.

As a requestor, you simply enter the number of PAX and the estimate of how much gear you were bringing with you. The plane that picks up the mission could be anything that met the need. The USAFA Cadet band travels with several planes each week to get all of the cargo where they need to be.

So is this pretty much a streamlined version of Space-A? I wish the USNA has something but I don't think sealift works when you're playing in Colorado. Granted, I don't think sports teams would be wild about sleeping on YPs either.

 

[OldRetSWO]

So is this pretty much a streamlined version of Space-A? I wish the USNA has something but I don't think sealift works when you're playing in Colorado. Granted, I don't think sports teams would be wild about sleeping on YPs either.

So the Navy's VR squadron assets couldn't work just like the USAF MAC assets?

 

[OldRetSWO]

I suppose "fund athletics" is a pretty broad phrase. I'm sure there's a lot of NAF that goes into the athletic program, but I would guess that most, if not all, civilian staff are paid with appropriated funds.

If you're correct for USAFA then my reaction is WOW!.
At USNA, the vast majority of athletic staff are paid for with NAAA funding, not appropriated funds.

 

[Usnavy2019]

So the Navy's VR squadron assets couldn't work just like the USAF MAC assets?

They definitely could, but I was making a joke (or at least attempting to) that sealift wouldn't be practical. I just used sealift since that is the flavor of logistics the Navy specializes in.