C4C AMA: Ask me anything!

buffalo

USAFA 2013
10-Year Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
798
It's sad that you choose to be a blind follower. I want to understand why an order or rule has to be followed. The very least you can do to try and become a leader is to be informed and not be ignorant. If you don't know the answer, maybe someone else does?
Informed about why football games are mandatory? Tradition doesn't mean much nowadays, but that could be a possible answer. But if you want a more tangible answer, AFrpaso gave a decent one. USAFA leadership has decided that it is important for a mass of cadets together supporting the football team. That's why there's usually a special emphasis on remaining in the cadet section instead of sitting with parents over Parent's Weekend.

Now, feel free to continue to be mad about having to go to football games. Head to the tailgate pissed off, and I can guarantee that's how you'll be throughout the game. But heck, if you maybe try to do what raimius suggested and sit closer to the field you might have a better time. Or, do you have any ideas about how to make the games more enjoyable? Throw them out. Get that conversation started.
 

AFrpaso

USAFA Alumnus
5-Year Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
757
It's sad that you choose to be a blind follower. I want to understand why an order or rule has to be followed. The very least you can do to try and become a leader is to be informed and not be ignorant. If you don't know the answer, maybe someone else does?
Again, you attributing characteristics to me while you still have no right.

If I was a blind follower, and I wanted to engage you in any sort of debate regarding the merits of mandatory football games. I would simply say "That's how it works" and move on. Clearly, based off my knowledge, even if you deem it rudimentary, I have rationalized the need to follow the order of attending football games. The reasons can be found in my previous posts.

Please do not personally attack me for my opinion.

Questioning authority is certainly a useful trait. Explaining the reasons behind an order is an excellent trait for an officer, NCO, Airman or anyone to have.
As I am sure you know, the military runs on a hierarchy of discipline. Sometimes orders cannot be questioned, sometimes they are questioned by those who have more authority than yourself and it is their place to question them. Sometimes there is a place for blind followership.

I am proud to have served the Air Force as an enlisted Airman and I will be proud to serve as an officer. I will be proud to serve beside you, if you are in any military service.
 
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icarus

5-Year Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
210
Cool thing with this forum is that one can ask questions and you get a mix bag of pertinent and varied perspectives thrown in with disagreement or debunked assumptions. I am not mad or in disagreement. Simply a query so I can be enlightened. Thanks.
 

raimius

10-Year Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
2,531
Cool thing with this forum is that one can ask questions and you get a mix bag of pertinent and varied perspectives thrown in with disagreement or debunked assumptions. I am not mad or in disagreement. Simply a query so I can be enlightened. Thanks.
All well and good. For future reference starting out by saying, "It's sad that you choose to be a [insert characterization here]" is a very poor way to disagree, but it's a darn good way to start personal attacks.
 

kinnem

Moderator
5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
12,566
It's sad that you choose to be a blind follower. I want to understand why an order or rule has to be followed. The very least you can do to try and become a leader is to be informed and not be ignorant. If you don't know the answer, maybe someone else does?
icarus, you're totally out of line. :mad:
 

CadCandMateus

Recent Grad
10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
600
Cool thing with this forum is that one can ask questions and you get a mix bag of pertinent and varied perspectives thrown in with disagreement or debunked assumptions. I am not mad or in disagreement. Simply a query so I can be enlightened. Thanks.
One take away I have from the Academy and being commissioned now since May 2012 is that you won't always have all the answers. Sometimes your job is to salute and follow orders. This is one of those times.
 

USMCGrunt

5-Year Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2010
Messages
2,570
One take away I have from the Academy and being commissioned now since May 2012 is that you won't always have all the answers. Sometimes your job is to salute and follow orders. This is one of those times.
Well said!

Imagine a military where everyone has to be satisified on the "why" of an order before they are willing to follow it.

It is OK to question, gripe, *****, etc with your peers in the privacy of a quiet moment. But as CadCandMateus states: "sometimes your job is to salute and follow orders."
 

drjunge

5-Year Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
20
The reason for staying until the end of the game could simply be no more than "impressions". With virtually all football games televised today, how would it look if at the end of a game the television camera pans over the USAFA student section and it is almost empty. That would be typical at a civilian college but I am guessing the people in charge would not want to present that type of image. Or, if you want to put a positive spin on it, think how good it looks at the end of a lopdsided game and the entire student body is still there. Many things in life are no more than "impressions". I don't know what the other service academies do, but it could also be as simple as "they require it so we will too".
 

christie_lh

5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Messages
11
Did you go through the medical waiver process? If so do you have any advice for applicants seeking a medical waiver.
To be more specific:
My son has just completed his USAFA application and is medically disqualified/ pending a waiver review. He injured his shoulder playing football last year. He was treated conservatively with no braces or restrictions, just 2 sessions of physical therapy. His orthopod wrote in his office note that he had mild instability in his shoulder. He has appealed the DODMERB decision, followed up with his orthopod and had a normal MRI arthrogram to provide evidence that he has had no subsequent issues with his shoulder. We are now waiting to see if he will get a waiver review. Any advice on what to provide to the waiver board to assure them this is not an ongoing issue?
 

falcongirl

USAFA grad
10-Year Member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
339
Now, feel free to continue to be mad about having to go to football games. Head to the tailgate pissed off, and I can guarantee that's how you'll be throughout the game. But heck, if you maybe try to do what raimius suggested and sit closer to the field you might have a better time. Or, do you have any ideas about how to make the games more enjoyable? Throw them out. Get that conversation started.
Work MWR as an upperclassman and run your squad's tailgate! But then again, I prefer cleaning the grill to watching the game :rolleyes:
 

AcademyFriend1

5-Year Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
203
Just a quick additional post about the policies at USAFA, USNA, and USMA that the cadets/midshipmen must attend home football games (I'm not intentionally leaving out USCGA or USMMA -- I don't know if cadets/midshipmen there must attend any sporting events).

Others have already mentioned tradition and the attempt to build school spirit/morale/unit cohesion. I wanted to emphasize and expand on a couple of additional points (which prior posters have already mentioned).

1. Exposure to potential future applicants: Each year, the televised service academy games -- particularly the "rivalry" games with the other service academies -- result in many minutes of air time about the existence of the academies and, to a lesser extent, their missions. I won't say this is necessarily "free air time" -- the football programs are expensive and I don't know the extent to which the TV revenue pays for the whole program -- but at a minimum the televised games result in highly discounted paid promotional time. Every "atmosphere" shot of the beautiful grounds, or clean cut and attractive young people in snazzy uniforms looking like they are having a great time in the stands (because of course the cameras don't focus on any glum groups!) sends a positive message about the academies. I cannot be the only person who, once upon a time in the strange land called the 1980s, got the service academies on my radar screen after watching the Army-Navy game. The exposure thing works for civilian schools too, by the way. Applications to Boston College took off like a rocket and never came back to earth after the exposure of the Doug Flutie era (yes, also from the 1980s :wink:). You don't get those great reaction shots of cadets/mids -- which are a big part of what the network suits like about televising service academy games -- if the stands are sparsely populated.

2. Exposure to the public, which elects the Congress which funds the academies: Anyone who reads military-related news articles or follows Tom Ricks knows that periodically a debate emerges about whether the service academies are "worth it" (cost to educate an individual cadet/mid much higher than ROTC/OCS, etc.). It is not necessarily a foregone conclusion that Congress will always continue to fund the academies. If you value them (as I do), you recognize that public perception matters, and that the many hours of positive coverage of the academies through the televised football games are important to helping educate the public about the existence and mission of the academies (and in giving those many football-watching taxpayers a positive impression of the institutions).

Sometimes I worry in my posts that I may come across as a Zelig-like character (another '80s reference :wink:) -- now she's talking as a history teacher! Now she's talking as a former Marine! Now she's talking as a former litigator! So, with apologies for the continual hat-switching (and I promise I really did do all those things), let me say that in my former legal career I had some significant involvement in a case involving a major broadcast network and got some familiarity with the costs of advertising and what the programmers are looking for. The costs are astronomical (you can look it up), and the programmers live and die for the "money shots" like the Corps of Cadets or Brigade of Midshipmen or Cadet Wing marching on to the field or doing the pushups or flying the falcon or leading the goat or riding the mule. Without a full cadet/mid crowd, the network suits would not be interested.
 

icarus

5-Year Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
210
Thanks for all the helpful input. It makes much more sense after reading different opinions. Showing up to support our team for home games is the least we can do. Overcoming adversity, teamwork and exposure to future applicants/public are legitimate reasons. Funny how winning especially against a rival SA definitely alters the perception and mood.
My favorite is when Gen. Dempsey was asked who he was rooting for and he of course said WP then the Falcons scored a TD and then three more to seal the win. If only Army sinks Navy,a three way tie would be cool.
 

icarus

5-Year Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
210
I can't help but disagree with this completely.
Of course prep is not the goal- if you had asked me, Fry, Blahukahuna, etc... two years ago, we all had high hopes and fingers crossed for the C/O 2016. However, things do not always go as planned; especially considering that year was one of the most competitive in academy history.
We were offered an additional year of prep because the academy saw something valuable in us. Perhaps we did not get the best ACT scores or 4.2 GPAs; but we showed strong qualities of leadership, character, and tenacity in the face of adversity. We accepted the challenge of an additional year, and like it or not, passed with flying colors. As opposed to looking at ourselves as failures for not getting an appointment the first time around, we saw this as a learning opportunity and a year to grow. I do not regret my decision because it has matured and humbled me. I am even more impressed with self preps, who work incredibly hard to make their dreams come true. I hope that one day we can all aspire to achieve that level of commitment.
Blake impresses me because he is already looking at his options if he does not make it in this year. It is best to prepare for the worst, and to not be disappointed in yourself if you do not make it in the first time around. Needing a year of prep is nothing to be ashamed of, and should certainly not be treated as such.

On a side note, the success rate of Falcon Foundation Scholars is 95%; and the graduation rate is just as high. In fact, higher than that of direct appointees. If you would like more information, feel free to check this out:
http://www.usafa.org/Documents/FalconFoundation/Checkpoints092012-FalconFoundationAdvantage.pdf
http://www.csindy.com/coloradosprings/the-air-force-academys-committed-to-its-academic-booster-program-but-at-what-cost/Content?oid=2788770
"Most of those who graduate the prep school will get an academy appointment, even if their academic performance remains below the academy’s minimum standards."
Really?
 

CadCandMateus

Recent Grad
10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
600
That article is referring to specifically Air Force Academy Prep School grads. Not other prepsters.

"Preppies" - Air Force Academy Prep School

"Prepsters" - Other prep programs (Falcon foundation, etc..)
 

haleym

5-Year Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
417
http://www.csindy.com/coloradosprings/the-air-force-academys-committed-to-its-academic-booster-program-but-at-what-cost/Content?oid=2788770
"Most of those who graduate the prep school will get an academy appointment, even if their academic performance remains below the academy’s minimum standards."
Really?
As Blahukahuna stated a while ago, it is pretty frustrating when Falcon Scholars are lumped in the same group as USAFAPS cadets. I tried to bring this to your attention with the facts and yet they were still overlooked.
If you get even one D on the program, you are OUT. Done. Even Cs don't guarantee your slot.
Unless you are a Falcon Scholar or are familiar with the program, please do not misinform others on how valuable the it truly is. I just had a dinner with nearly all of the four stars in the AF the other night to celebrate its accomplishments and thank the trustees who gave me a second chance. This program isn't even funded by government money- it runs solely off of generous donors who believe in us and know we have what it takes to succeed at USAFA.
 

icarus

5-Year Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
210
Many ways to skin a cat. Credible information is discerned by seeking multiple sources and verification. By getting you and other prepsters frustrated and passionately explain the difference, I have learned something new. Overcoming adversity is one of the common topics they ask when one applies to a SA. Determination and getting to your goal even after being denied acceptance in your first try is admirable. Keep up the outstanding work and thanks for the edification of future applicants and uninformed posters.:thumb:
 

Runner2020

5-Year Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Messages
38
My success won't necessarily work for everyone, but since you want an example of "following through" with an activity, here goes.

-C/Capt in the CAP. National Blue Beret twice (second time as a flight commander), Civic Leadership Academy, Regional Cadet Leadership School, and Encampment. Cadet Commander and Honor guard commander for my unit. VFW COY medal, yada yada yada.

-Several hundred hours of community service (if not thousands) in school and other local programs, including one where i racked up almost 400 hours in 3 years.

-Track/XC varsity.
Will admissions take your CAP resume, or will there at least be a portion on the application where you can list every major activity you've done in CAP? ie. I just applied for COS/NBB/Hawk/PJOC today, I've staffed multiple Encampments, CC for my own squadron, soon to be C/Capt, etc? And would you count staffing an encampment or NCSA for community service hours?

Also, for sports, I'm currently a Varsity runner for XC and Track. Due to an injury, I had to miss a few meets mid-season which lead to me not being able to run State, and lettering, so I don't have as many Varsity letters as I could have had. On applications, if you letter at least 1-2 in your high school year, is that any different from lettering 3-4 years, or do they take into account how many times you've lettered exactly?

Sorry for the detailed questions. Thanks for your help! :smile:
 
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nolifepilot

USAFA Cadet
5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Messages
149
Will admissions take your CAP resume, or will there at least be a portion on the application where you can list every major activity you've done in CAP? ie. I just applied for COS/NBB/Hawk/PJOC today, I've staffed multiple Encampments, CC for my own squadron, soon to be C/Capt, etc? And would you count staffing an encampment or NCSA for community service hours?

Also, for sports, I'm currently a Varsity runner for XC and Track. Due to an injury, I had to miss a few meets mid-season which lead to me not being able to run State, and lettering, so I don't have as many Varsity letters as I could have had. On applications, if you letter at least 1-2 in your high school year, is that any different from lettering 3-4 years, or do they take into account how many times you've lettered exactly?

Sorry for the detailed questions. Thanks for your help! :smile:
Yes, they will. On the application there is a resume section that you fill out where you list everything you have done in a nifty format they give you. It has to be under 10k characters, but I listed out everything I have done in CAP under this section. There's also a check box section where CAP is an option. There you can check off what awards you have earned and whether you've attended an encampment or not. My school allowed me to count CAP hours for volunteer hours, so I submitted the forms for 1044.5 hours to my counselor at the Academy and he said they accepted them.

Not sure if 1-2 years vs 3-4 years makes a difference, but there's a part on the application where you check if you were a member of the team, if you were a captain, if you were varsity, and if you were all district or something. It only allows you to select Sophomore to Senior year though, not freshmen.
 

laserflash

5-Year Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
9
Hey I have a question about the DoDMERB process and I have looked everywhere for an answer to this.

Is there a minimum weight requirement and how easy is it to obtain a waiver for this? I am able to max or meet the averages for the CFA (male averages) except for the B-Ball throw. I know this isn't a problem for most people (usually it's the opposite) but I'm just curious if any of you have experience with this.

Thanks!

Patrick
 
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