Candidate slots?
- Thread starter civic29
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If you read the Stickies at the top of the nomination forums, you’ll learn about the methods the MOCs may choose to use, which can include sending an unranked list.
On my son’s congressional slate for USMA, 2 that we know of were appointed in January. My son also had a senatorial slate but we assumed it would not be decided in January. The purpose of this is to demonstrate that multiple people from a slate can be appointed rather quickly. Both from his congressional had LOE’s.
Edited to add : my son could have won his senatorial slate but we will never know for sure. Our Senator did call to congratulate him and he received a very flattering email afterwards offering lifelong support. Very impressed with the Senator. Our congressman doesn’t make phone calls to notify.
Edited to add : my son could have won his senatorial slate but we will never know for sure. Our Senator did call to congratulate him and he received a very flattering email afterwards offering lifelong support. Very impressed with the Senator. Our congressman doesn’t make phone calls to notify.
Tried to edit again but too late. I like our rep too. I know he typically doesn’t call because my older son only had one nom and his bfe ended up in our mailbox with no notice. Both were happy days either way! Didn’t want anyone to think I was not appreciative to our rep who’s been amazing. [emoji3]
SFRanger
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We made the mistake of thinking that if you are 3Q with a nomination your odds of getting in are about 50%. We found out this is not true. We were told that all the candidates on the NWL are ranked and then chosen base on the available slots. The optimal phrase is "available slots". That does not mean they take the top 1,250 children on this list. A member of Congress can select a candidate from their district that is not qualified at all and send them. Straight up that is their choice and there are some candidate that just get in based on political ties. Another example of this are children of people who have won the Medal of honor. You can be dumb as a rock but if your mom won the Medal of Honor you are in. Second important issue is did you win your district. If you did you are in unless your Congress person chose some one else. Again, you may not even be listed on the 3q NWL and you can still get it if you win your district. Another huge consideration is sex and race. The Academy is committed to diversity. Approximately 25% of the class last year were women and about 20% minority. If all of these people are on the bottom of the NWL (obviously that is not the case) they will be chosen over people at the top to get into the school. The Academy has also sent out information indicating that the ultimate goal is to get women to 50% of the class with significant increases in minority applicants. When it all shakes out if you are a white male you better be in about the top 25 of the NWL. Of course this is just a guess by anyone and no one knows where you really stand on it. The Academy will not give out this information. Truth is you may be one of the top 1,250 applicants in the country and still not get in. Just the Truth.
For the record, I think this should be changed. This is a school that educates the leaders of our military. Ours is the greatest in the world. I personally believe all candidates should be stack ranked and the top 1,250 chosen. Use any criterion that the Military thinks is important. Once it is put in place we should chose the best. If that means all of our military leaders are Chinese women so be it.
For the record, I think this should be changed. This is a school that educates the leaders of our military. Ours is the greatest in the world. I personally believe all candidates should be stack ranked and the top 1,250 chosen. Use any criterion that the Military thinks is important. Once it is put in place we should chose the best. If that means all of our military leaders are Chinese women so be it.
SY96
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Not agreeing or disagreeing with @SFRanger . Another perspective. The USMA appointment process is remarkably more transparent than a civilian college. You have to be 3q with a nom. We know that the winners of 670 slates will receive appointments (536 slates X 1.25 charges per MOC/VP per year). This ensures geographic representation from every state (think electoral college). Then they pull in the next most qualified 150 by WCS off the NWL. This ensures a meritocracy that will tend to benefit applicants from competitive districts who didn't win their slate outright (think popular vote). Only then do they round out the class for other purposes, which doesn't mean well-qualified applicants won't be included in that final group - they are still 3q with a nom. USMA, like many institutions, considers the "whole person" and is trying to solve for multiple objectives at the same time. No civilian college I know of is this transparent in its admissions process.
As for the topic of pure merit, the new ACFT which replaces the APFT later this year no longer makes a distinction for gender and age. Your score is your score, and if you want to do certain things in the army, you need a certain score. Period.
A1Janitor
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The other truth not being said is that the candidates are all competitive. Just because a minority or a woman is selected doesn’t mean they were less deserving than a white male that was not selected.
The goal of getting women to 50% doesn’t mean taking less qualified candidates ... it means getting the better qualified women to apply.
The goal of getting women to 50% doesn’t mean taking less qualified candidates ... it means getting the better qualified women to apply.
SFRanger
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So I think you are saying that what I said was true except everyone must now be 3Q. Point well taken. I think you are right on this and I was wrong.
SFRanger
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So you are saying the women at the Academy now are not the best the country has?
I would argue that the men are the best the country has to offer. Frankly, I also believe that of the women. As a result, I think the plan the academy has will change things dramatically. The average scores for women candidates being admitted will start to go down. The average scores for the men will have to go up. It is just a simple mathematic equation.
A1Janitor
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I didn’t say that at all.
I am saying that the women and minorities are deserving of their appointments. And it is a fallacy to assume there were better candidates that they beat out.
My son deserved his appointment. My daughter would have been just as deserving if she applied years ago.
The concept that only the men are the best candidates is ludicrous.
SY96
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My rough calc is that the top 800 by WCS (3q with nom) are extremely likely to receive offers of appointment. Yes, there could be someone in a “non-competitive” district who would not otherwise have been in the top 820. And yes, there could be someone from a “very competitive” district who was in the low 800s who does not get an offer (although more likely not to get a nom in the first place if that competitive). USMA stats from prior years show about 2,000 or so applicants are 3q with a nom. So if you are in the top 40% you should be very likely to receive an offer, without respect to race or gender. And since the Academy can round out the class with 200-400 more as it sees fit beyond the first 820, it is probable that additional top-ranked applicants will be included in the final group. It is only in this final group where odds may change based on factors other than WCS.
The 150 Candidates chosen from the NWL are selected based on merit alone - by law (ie, highest WCS to lowest). No consideration is given to race, gender, etc. After that, there are available slots that can be filled to round out the class for purposes of diversity (i.e., race, gender or any other quality the Academy feels would benefit the USMA)
NWL – National Waiting List:
– Title X of the US Code mandates that service academies must admit 150 candidates from the NWL in order of WCS.
– Fully qualified (which includes being medically qualified) non-vacancy winners of MOC nominations will go on the NWL.
– If you are on the NWL, then you are fully qualified (scholastically, physically{CFA} and medically{DoDMERB}) and have a MOC nomination.
– About 450 slots of the class will come from the NWL.
– The NWL helps a service academy achieve their class composition goals thereby making sure the class has a balance of athletes, minorities, leaders, scholars, etc.
– Title X of the US Code mandates that service academies must admit 150 candidates from the NWL in order of WCS.
– Fully qualified (which includes being medically qualified) non-vacancy winners of MOC nominations will go on the NWL.
– If you are on the NWL, then you are fully qualified (scholastically, physically{CFA} and medically{DoDMERB}) and have a MOC nomination.
– About 450 slots of the class will come from the NWL.
– The NWL helps a service academy achieve their class composition goals thereby making sure the class has a balance of athletes, minorities, leaders, scholars, etc.
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SY96
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The answer is both. The 2,200 figure is roughly the total number of applicants who are 3q with a nom. Of those, theoretically about the top 40% by WCS will receive offers of appointment - see my earlier post in this thread for qualifications - (and ultimately about 50% of the 2,200 will receive offers). It is best to look at it as if all 2,200 start out on the NWL. From there, think of it as being done in 3 stages: 1) MOC slates are resolved ("winners" selected), netting approx. 670 offers; 2) by law the next 150 highest ranked by WCS are taken (so we are up to 820); 3) Academy rounds out the class with another 200-400 offers, getting us to something like 1,100 (might be a bit more than that, since the yield is not 100%, and the incoming classes are typically over 1,000).
I emailed my MOC but did not get a response.. yet? On if they rank us or not. I’m guessing I did not win my slate because no BFE, no call , no portal change. My 3Q letter states they will begin filling the class 2/26 until May 1 so I guess I’m hoping my WOC is in the top 40%?