DD got the “you are qualified letter” yesterday and has a nomination. Are nominations ranked by the MOC? Or do they just send in 10 and USMA can pick which candidate is most qualified? (Our MOC has only 1 cadet at the SA now).
Not agreeing or disagreeing with @SFRanger . Another perspective. The USMA appointment process is remarkably more transparent than a civilian college. You have to be 3q with a nom. We know that the winners of 670 slates will receive appointments (536 slates X 1.25 charges per MOC/VP per year). This ensures geographic representation from every state (think electoral college). Then they pull in the next most qualified 150 by WCS off the NWL. This ensures a meritocracy that will tend to benefit applicants from competitive districts who didn't win their slate outright (think popular vote). Only then do they round out the class for other purposes, which doesn't mean well-qualified applicants won't be included in that final group - they are still 3q with a nom. USMA, like many institutions, considers the "whole person" and is trying to solve for multiple objectives at the same time. No civilian college I know of is this transparent in its admissions process.We made the mistake of thinking that if you are 3Q with a nomination your odds of getting in are about 50%. We found out this is not true. We were told that all the candidates on the NWL are ranked and then chosen base on the available slots. The optimal phrase is "available slots". That does not mean they take the top 1,250 children on this list. A member of Congress can select a candidate from their district that is not qualified at all and send them. Straight up that is their choice and there are some candidate that just get in based on political ties. Another example of this are children of people who have won the Medal of honor. You can be dumb as a rock but if your mom won the Medal of Honor you are in. Second important issue is did you win your district. If you did you are in unless your Congress person chose some one else. Again, you may not even be listed on the 3q NWL and you can still get it if you win your district. Another huge consideration is sex and race. The Academy is committed to diversity. Approximately 25% of the class last year were women and about 20% minority. If all of these people are on the bottom of the NWL (obviously that is not the case) they will be chosen over people at the top to get into the school. The Academy has also sent out information indicating that the ultimate goal is to get women to 50% of the class with significant increases in minority applicants. When it all shakes out if you are a white male you better be in about the top 25 of the NWL. Of course this is just a guess by anyone and no one knows where you really stand on it. The Academy will not give out this information. Truth is you may be one of the top 1,250 applicants in the country and still not get in. Just the Truth.
For the record, I think this should be changed. This is a school that educates the leaders of our military. Ours is the greatest in the world. I personally believe all candidates should be stack ranked and the top 1,250 chosen. Use any criterion that the Military thinks is important. Once it is put in place we should chose the best. If that means all of our military leaders are Chinese women so be it.
So I think you are saying that what I said was true except everyone must now be 3Q. Point well taken. I think you are right on this and I was wrong.Not agreeing or disagreeing with @SFRanger . Another perspective. The USMA appointment process is remarkably more transparent than a civilian college. You have to be 3q with a nom. We know that the winners of 670 slates will receive appointments (536 slates X 1.25 charges per MOC/VP per year). This ensures geographic representation from every state (think electoral college). Then they pull in the next most qualified 150 by WCS off the NWL. This ensures a meritocracy that will tend to benefit applicants from competitive districts who didn't win their slate outright (think popular vote). Only then do they round out the class for other purposes, which doesn't mean well-qualified applicants won't be included in that final group - they are still 3q with a nom. USMA, like many institutions, considers the "whole person" and is trying to solve for multiple objectives at the same time. No civilian college I know of is this transparent in its admissions process.We made the mistake of thinking that if you are 3Q with a nomination your odds of getting in are about 50%. We found out this is not true. We were told that all the candidates on the NWL are ranked and then chosen base on the available slots. The optimal phrase is "available slots". That does not mean they take the top 1,250 children on this list. A member of Congress can select a candidate from their district that is not qualified at all and send them. Straight up that is their choice and there are some candidate that just get in based on political ties. Another example of this are children of people who have won the Medal of honor. You can be dumb as a rock but if your mom won the Medal of Honor you are in. Second important issue is did you win your district. If you did you are in unless your Congress person chose some one else. Again, you may not even be listed on the 3q NWL and you can still get it if you win your district. Another huge consideration is sex and race. The Academy is committed to diversity. Approximately 25% of the class last year were women and about 20% minority. If all of these people are on the bottom of the NWL (obviously that is not the case) they will be chosen over people at the top to get into the school. The Academy has also sent out information indicating that the ultimate goal is to get women to 50% of the class with significant increases in minority applicants. When it all shakes out if you are a white male you better be in about the top 25 of the NWL. Of course this is just a guess by anyone and no one knows where you really stand on it. The Academy will not give out this information. Truth is you may be one of the top 1,250 applicants in the country and still not get in. Just the Truth.
For the record, I think this should be changed. This is a school that educates the leaders of our military. Ours is the greatest in the world. I personally believe all candidates should be stack ranked and the top 1,250 chosen. Use any criterion that the Military thinks is important. Once it is put in place we should chose the best. If that means all of our military leaders are Chinese women so be it.
As for the topic of pure merit, the new ACFT which replaces the APFT later this year no longer makes a distinction for gender and age. Your score is your score, and if you want to do certain things in the army, you need a certain score. Period.
So you are saying the women at the Academy now are not the best the country has?The other truth not being said is that the candidates are all competitive. Just because a minority or a woman is selected doesn’t mean they were less deserving than a white male that was not selected.
The goal of getting women to 50% doesn’t mean taking less qualified candidates ... it means getting the better qualified women to apply.
So you are saying the women at the Academy now are not the best the country has?The other truth not being said is that the candidates are all competitive. Just because a minority or a woman is selected doesn’t mean they were less deserving than a white male that was not selected.
The goal of getting women to 50% doesn’t mean taking less qualified candidates ... it means getting the better qualified women to apply.
I would argue that the men are the best the country has to offer. Frankly, I also believe that of the women. As a result, I think the plan the academy has will change things dramatically. The average scores for women candidates being admitted will start to go down. The average scores for the men will have to go up. It is just a simple mathematic equation.
So I think you are saying that what I said was true except everyone must now be 3Q. Point well taken. I think you are right on this and I was wrong.
The other truth not being said is that the candidates are all competitive. Just because a minority or a woman is selected doesn’t mean they were less deserving than a white male that was not selected.
The goal of getting women to 50% doesn’t mean taking less qualified candidates ... it means getting the better qualified women to apply.
The answer is both. The 2,200 figure is roughly the total number of applicants who are 3q with a nom. Of those, theoretically about the top 40% by WCS will receive offers of appointment - see my earlier post in this thread for qualifications - (and ultimately about 50% of the 2,200 will receive offers). It is best to look at it as if all 2,200 start out on the NWL. From there, think of it as being done in 3 stages: 1) MOC slates are resolved ("winners" selected), netting approx. 670 offers; 2) by law the next 150 highest ranked by WCS are taken (so we are up to 820); 3) Academy rounds out the class with another 200-400 offers, getting us to something like 1,100 (might be a bit more than that, since the yield is not 100%, and the incoming classes are typically over 1,000).I’m a bit confused? One thread I hear about 40 % get selected off the NWL of roughly 2200 applications 3qd and another that states only 150 get selected off the NWL?? Which is it? Confused?