Chances for USMA?

[Impulsive]

@SFRanger, Where do you get your figures? From the class of 2021 posted in another forum area, the "median" accepted candidates had the following:
1. SAT of 1260, ACT of 26
2. The Academy only sees your semester grades, not term usually. So the "C" would only show up if the semester (either fall or spring) showed a "C". Even then there are other posters on these forums that received "C" for the year, in the freshman or sophomore years and improved those grades in later years.
3. You cannot attain an "unweighted" GPA above 4.0. A standard "A" is 4.0, the only way I know of is if your school uses a 5.0 scale for everything. "Weighted" GPA's can be up to 5.0 because AP and IB classes are rated on a 5.0 scale. If I am not correct in this please advise.

The SA's for the most part do not use GPA anymore, they use "class rank" as it is more indicative of how you did compared to your peers. And if you school does not provide class rank, the academy will take your ACT and SAT scores and use a formula to determine class rank so they can see how you stand amongst the other candidates. Don't know about the CFE other than it is only 10% of the WCS, so academics and activities count for more.

 

[MidCakePa]

I'd prefer to go Army ROTC at Wheaton College Illinois but my parents are strict and really want me to go to West Point ever since I got the nomination from my congressman

Some really great advice above, so I have only this to add. There’s a term used for many cadets/midshipmen who attend an SA because it’s their parents’s desire and not their own: Separated.

@rayrotc, try not to be one of them.

 

[SFRanger]

@SFRanger, Where do you get your figures? From the class of 2021 posted in another forum area, the "median" accepted candidates had the following:
1. SAT of 1260, ACT of 26
2. The Academy only sees your semester grades, not term usually. So the "C" would only show up if the semester (either fall or spring) showed a "C". Even then there are other posters on these forums that received "C" for the year, in the freshman or sophomore years and improved those grades in later years.
3. You cannot attain an "unweighted" GPA above 4.0. A standard "A" is 4.0, the only way I know of is if your school uses a 5.0 scale for everything. "Weighted" GPA's can be up to 5.0 because AP and IB classes are rated on a 5.0 scale. If I am not correct in this please advise.

The SA's for the most part do not use GPA anymore, they use "class rank" as it is more indicative of how you did compared to your peers. And if you school does not provide class rank, the academy will take your ACT and SAT scores and use a formula to determine class rank so they can see how you stand amongst the other candidates. Don't know about the CFE other than it is only 10% of the WCS, so academics and activities count for more.

My information is based on my knowledge of the Cadets and meeting them and talking with them. It is also the reason that I started posting. We found that most people really try to be nice but no one really wants to be straight up honest and give direct answers. No one wants to destroy any ones dreams so they string young people along for months giving them great encouragement on an unrealistic situation. Can you get into the Academy with "C's" in high school? Maybe but they better be small in number and you better have other things that offset it. Can you get in with a GPA of less than 4.0, yes? However, these children are great students and most of them have really high grades with tons of AP courses. Getting multiple "C's", a GPA for 3.6 and an ACT score of 26 based on my experience will not get you in unless you have some other special status that the academy is looking for. In addition, in my estimation, even if you get in with these scores, you may be setting yourself up for failure.

With that said, you can take my advice or leave it. It is up to you. The advice I have given is free. Maybe it is worthless and I am totally wrong.

 

[Impulsive]

@SFRanger, never said you were wrong, just asked where you got your figures. A 3.8 GPA "unweighted" is a VERY Good GPA, and the academy's look a lot at leadership history and potential, as well as fitness and sports. Yes, the majority of appointed cadets probably do have really good GPA,s but the graph I say, listed "top 1/5 of class" as one, "SAT of 1320" as another, and Activities, NHS, Girls/Boys State, Varsity Sports (Captain), JROTC, etc and the percentage of the accepted class at each level. That was for two years ago, they numbers may very well be different now. That was why I asked where you got your figures from, if they are published or available it would be nice to pass them along so as you say, a lot of candidates don't get strung along, but take a realistic approach to a Plan B.

 

[rayrotc]

Thanks for the insight everyone!

 

[MamaBear4]

Think of STEM between the two SA like football.

Overall it’s really close.

But Navy holds the lead, 60–52–7.

[emoji14]

I much prefer to speak of academics instead of football. Although I love football and have supported my own sons through years of football which resulted in All State for multiple years, academics will always be my focus.

Haiving technical issues.

93 Rhodes Scholars for USMA to 47 Rhodes Scholars for USNA. Almost double.

 

[SFRanger]

@SFRanger, never said you were wrong, just asked where you got your figures. A 3.8 GPA "unweighted" is a VERY Good GPA, and the academy's look a lot at leadership history and potential, as well as fitness and sports. Yes, the majority of appointed cadets probably do have really good GPA,s but the graph I say, listed "top 1/5 of class" as one, "SAT of 1320" as another, and Activities, NHS, Girls/Boys State, Varsity Sports (Captain), JROTC, etc and the percentage of the accepted class at each level. That was for two years ago, they numbers may very well be different now. That was why I asked where you got your figures from, if they are published or available it would be nice to pass them along so as you say, a lot of candidates don't get strung along, but take a realistic approach to a Plan B.

Yes, just like you we studied those profiles day after day. That is how I found this board as we were like everyone else looking for answers. If you find them let me know because I would love to see them. Truth is there are vast differences in Cadet individual profiles. Here are some of the things that we have found can help you dramatically. 1) Become a recruited athlete. At the Academy this is very difficult as depending on your sport they are good. Football team was number 17 in the nation. Women's boxing team just won the national championship. Men's and Women's Cross Country runners are some of the best in the country. 2) Race. I am not saying all minority cadets have lower scores or do not belong. I am saying race matters and will help you get in. 3) Sex. The academy is trying to increase the number of women dramatically. Enough said.

If your cadet is a white male, they better have scores on the top end of the profile. Just my opinion.

 

[brewmeist]

Assuming a 4.0 scale, it’s not possible to have an unweighted average above 4.0.

Sure it is. Many schools will make an A+ grade higher than a 4.0, even though it is an unweighted class. Not all schools do it, but many do.

 

[MidCakePa]

Many schools will make an A+ grade higher than a 4.0, even though it is an unweighted class. Not all schools do it, but many do.

All this GPA “voodoo economics” (did I just age myself?) is why SAs don’t put very much credence on GPA. Instead, they focus on your class rank, your school profile and very close scrutiny of your transcript. They want to know you took the hardest classes your school has to offer, and excelled.

Ever notice the SAs don’t post average GPAs in their class profiles? Because of GPA “voodoo economics.”

 

[A1Janitor]

Assuming a 4.0 scale, it’s not possible to have an unweighted average above 4.0.

Sure it is. Many schools will make an A+ grade higher than a 4.0, even though it is an unweighted class. Not all schools do it, but many do.

My son has an unweighted average over 98. I assume that’s a 4.0. He has a perfect 4.0 for his associate degree. He has a weighted average over 103. I don’t know how that translates.

My son has never received lower than an A in a class ... I think he might have one A- .

If you are on a 4.0 scale by definition there is no A+. That’s a 4.3 scale.

 

[A1Janitor]

@SFRanger, never said you were wrong, just asked where you got your figures. A 3.8 GPA "unweighted" is a VERY Good GPA, and the academy's look a lot at leadership history and potential, as well as fitness and sports. Yes, the majority of appointed cadets probably do have really good GPA,s but the graph I say, listed "top 1/5 of class" as one, "SAT of 1320" as another, and Activities, NHS, Girls/Boys State, Varsity Sports (Captain), JROTC, etc and the percentage of the accepted class at each level. That was for two years ago, they numbers may very well be different now. That was why I asked where you got your figures from, if they are published or available it would be nice to pass them along so as you say, a lot of candidates don't get strung along, but take a realistic approach to a Plan B.

Yes, just like you we studied those profiles day after day. That is how I found this board as we were like everyone else looking for answers. If you find them let me know because I would love to see them. Truth is there are vast differences in Cadet individual profiles. Here are some of the things that we have found can help you dramatically. 1) Become a recruited athlete. At the Academy this is very difficult as depending on your sport they are good. Football team was number 17 in the nation. Women's boxing team just won the national championship. Men's and Women's Cross Country runners are some of the best in the country. 2) Race. I am not saying all minority cadets have lower scores or do not belong. I am saying race matters and will help you get in. 3) Sex. The academy is trying to increase the number of women dramatically. Enough said.

If your cadet is a white male, they better have scores on the top end of the profile. Just my opinion.

I just don’t like this post at all. White men are not victims kept out of the SAs.

 

[Objective]

@SFRanger, Where do you get your figures? From the class of 2021 posted in another forum area, the "median" accepted candidates had the following:
1. SAT of 1260, ACT of 26

I don't care what the average ACT says on the web. If you are a regular candidate (not an athlete, minority, etc), an ACT composite below 30 dramatically decreases your chances ...

 

[cptenca]

I don't care what the average ACT says on the web. If you are a regular candidate (not an athlete, minority, etc), an ACT composite below 30 dramatically decreases your chances ...

Don't let facts get in your way.

 

[Objective]

I don't care what the average ACT says on the web. If you are a regular candidate (not an athlete, minority, etc), an ACT composite below 30 dramatically decreases your chances ...

Don't let facts get in your way.

Not exactly sure what your point is. Your post infers you believe all candidates are held to the same standard. That isn't true at any school.

Do you believe all Div 1 athletes have the same scores as non-athletes? I know for a fact that isn't true!

 

[cptenca]

Not exactly sure what your point is. Your post infers you believe athletes are held to the exact standards that non athletes are held to. That isn't true at any school.

My post infers that USMA knows the average ACTs scores of their students better than most. Then again I tend to place higher credibility on official sources of information. Or otherwise when he gets home tonight for the long weekend, I'll ask the white male who didn't score above a 30 and wasn't a recruited athlete how he got in.

 

[Objective]

Not exactly sure what your point is. Your post infers you believe athletes are held to the exact standards that non athletes are held to. That isn't true at any school.

My post infers that USMA knows the average ACTs scores of their students better than most. Then again I tend to place higher credibility on official sources of information. Or otherwise when he gets home tonight for the long weekend, I'll ask the white male who didn't score above a 30 and wasn't a recruited athlete how he got in.

My comment is based on info from a long standing FFR.

There are many factors that drive Appointments (e.g., the competitiveness of a district/slate). Because your DS had an ACT composite below 30 does not discredit my earlier statement in any way. After all slates are cleared, 150 candidates will receive appoints based on WCS (highest to lowest). After that, there are available slots that can be filled to "round out the class for purposes of diversity".

I consider that an overall positive.

I've gained a lot of knowledge from this forum. I am grateful for that and don't want to offend or alienate others. At this point, our interaction isn't productive. I'll drop it

 

[The Big Slides]

If it is your true goal and intention to attend West Point and serve this country with pride and honor, you should have no worries or fears. Even if you get denied, there are plenty of other ways to gain the same outcome: becoming an officer in our nation's military. Your stats are pretty good in my opinion, although some aspects of physical performance could be improved. Work your way up to get a varsity letter in one of your two school sports, but I loved how you also participated in club sports as well (the MMA will be most beneficial as West Point requires boxing during the first year).

If it makes you feel better, my stats here:
1. 4.2 GPA weighted | 4.0 GPA unweighted
2. Executive Class President
3. like 10 volunteer hours
4. President of Military Club (knockoff future soldier program)
5. 1110 PSAT (1st time)

I've only got my heart and spirit left alive to keep me going, and I highly recommend you also use your strong zeal in applying to get you past the stats.

Good luck on applying!