China Is Becoming Very Concerning

[NJROTC-CC]

As a parent of a young man who plans to enter active duty in 2026 with the United States Navy I am very concerned about potential war with China.

How do we deal with this:

DF-21D: The Aircraft Carrier Killer Missile that Makes Navy Admirals Freak Out

There’s one weapon that has wreaked more havoc in American military strategy than any other: China’s hypersonic DF-21D anti-ship missile.

www.19fortyfive.com

Are big carriers almost obsolete in war with near-peer adversaries? And why are we still building more?

 

[nuensis]

DF-21 and its cousin DF-26 are ballistic missiles.

Maneuvering hypersonic glide vehicles are a more interesting threat.

NPS hosted an interesting discussion with VADM Hill, MDA, on this topic:

 

[NJROTC-CC]

DF-21 and its cousin DF-26 are ballistic missiles.

Maneuvering hypersonic glide vehicles are a more interesting threat.

NPS hosted an interesting discussion with VADM Hill, MDA, on this topic:

I have no technical knowledge, but the article said the DF-21D is a ballistic missile that deploys a hypersonic glide missile. It is the long range hypersonic missiles that are so concerning.

The point is: Do have the ability to defend against these weapons, and are large surface combatants particularly vulnerable?

 

[nuensis]

I have no technical knowledge, but the article said the DF-21D is a ballistic missile that deploys a hypersonic glide missile. It is the long range hypersonic missiles that are so concerning.

The point is: Do have the ability to defend against these weapons, and are large surface combatants particularly vulnerable?

For defenses, the best I can give you is that video, and the MDA website: https://www.mda.mil/system/system.html. That, and my assurances that we are not sitting ducks out there.

All modern ballistic missiles travel at hypersonic speeds--eventually. All missiles glide through the air--in some way. The article kind of haphazardly attaches that moniker without the appropriate context.

If you have some time to really dig deep: https://media.defense.gov/2020/Sep/...020-DOD-CHINA-MILITARY-POWER-REPORT-FINAL.PDF.
From the report:
-The DF-21 is a Maneuverable Re-entry Vehicle (MARV). MARVs are nothing new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneuverable_reentry_vehicle
-To the DoD, Hypersonic Glide Vehicle (HGV, or "waverider") is a different classification. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avangard_(hypersonic_glide_vehicle)

 

[Anguswarrior112]

The point is: Do have the ability to defend against these weapons, and are large surface combatants particularly vulnerable?

Defending against a Missile that is traveling at Hyper Sonic speeds with an unpredictable course is extremely difficult. I mentioned earlier, the CIWS, RAM, and ESSMs on our large ships are not prepared to intercept a HyperSonic Missile traveling on a unpredictable course that is sea skimming. Since we have been so focused on the Middle East the past two decades, our ability to counter these new threats are extremely limited.

As far as the ability to counter them, this is unfortunately limited. We will need to invest more in AI, Missile launch detection sensors and satellites, and having our forces dispersed in an urgent manner. We already have SBIRS which helps detect a Missile launch immediately but this does not intercept the missile. Our Defense Contractors and Military will need to cooperate to develop a solution for interception. If our allies and Corporate America can take a harsher stand against the CCP, then this can help our ability to deter a CCP attack greatly. Unfortunately, this is unlikely to happen given the economic ties with China. If a Chinese Missile did strike us, I would not be surprised if the research and funding into that missile was aided with our companies (Wall Street, Google).

 

[OldRetSWO]

As a parent of a young man who plans to enter active duty in 2026 with the United States Navy I am very concerned about potential war with China.

How do we deal with this:

DF-21D: The Aircraft Carrier Killer Missile that Makes Navy Admirals Freak Out

There’s one weapon that has wreaked more havoc in American military strategy than any other: China’s hypersonic DF-21D anti-ship missile.

www.19fortyfive.com

Are big carriers almost obsolete in war with near-peer adversaries? And why are we still building more?

I was a member of several Government-Industry study teams in this arena, one was the "Joint Air and Missile Defense Task Force" that analyzed threats such as these and made recommendations to the Services. While I can't say much without going into significant levels of classification, suffice it to say that there are still many uses/places for Aircraft Carriers and our other ships. Countermeasures both kinetic and non-kinetic along with operational patterns and many other things all have a play here.

 

[OldRetSWO]

I have no technical knowledge, but the article said the DF-21D is a ballistic missile that deploys a hypersonic glide missile. It is the long range hypersonic missiles that are so concerning.

The point is: Do have the ability to defend against these weapons, and are large surface combatants particularly vulnerable?

By the way, I recommend that you take this source with a SERIOUS grain of salt. While skimming the article, I spotted a couple of errors that indicate that this is someone who doesn't really know very much.

Example: " One Nimitz-class carrier is capable of accommodating as many as 130 F/A-18 Super Hornets"

Or, perhaps more troubling: "The U.S. Marine Corps has had a great deal of success launching F-35Bs (short take-off, vertical landing variant) off the deck of smaller “flat-top carriers” the U.S. refers to (for legal reasons) as amphibious assault ships. These vessels would likely be called aircraft carriers by other nations"
This is a common trope among people who don't really know more than what things LOOK like in a picture. They are called "Amphibious Assault Ships" because that is what they ARE. Yes, they carry aircraft but hangar space, Weapons storage and many other things that an Aircraft Carrier needs to carry aren't present because so much of the ship is Vehicle storage along with Landing Craft/well deck (most of them) and extensive troop berthing and other landing force support. The ships don't have/can't handle Airborne Early Warning nor other capabilities that would certainly be required to function as an aircraft carrier against a First or Second World competitor.

 

[Anguswarrior112]

By the way, I recommend that you take this source with a SERIOUS grain of salt. While skimming the article, I spotted a couple of errors that indicate that this is someone who doesn't really know very much.

Example: " One Nimitz-class carrier is capable of accommodating as many as 130 F/A-18 Super Hornets"

Or, perhaps more troubling: "The U.S. Marine Corps has had a great deal of success launching F-35Bs (short take-off, vertical landing variant) off the deck of smaller “flat-top carriers” the U.S. refers to (for legal reasons) as amphibious assault ships. These vessels would likely be called aircraft carriers by other nations"
This is a common trope among people who don't really know more than what things LOOK like in a picture. They are called "Amphibious Assault Ships" because that is what they ARE. Yes, they carry aircraft but hangar space, Weapons storage and many other things that an Aircraft Carrier needs to carry aren't present because so much of the ship is Vehicle storage along with Landing Craft/well deck (most of them) and extensive troop berthing and other landing force support. The ships don't have/can't handle Airborne Early Warning nor other capabilities that would certainly be required to function as an aircraft carrier against a First or Second World competitor.

OldRetSWO got it right. Many of these articles are written by people with a lack of Military Knowledge and instead are written based off of Perception.

The aircraft an Amphibious Assault Ship Carries are limited to VTOLS (F35, Harrier), and helicopters.

An Aircraft Carrier can carry more fixed wing planes with more specialized capabilities like the E2 Hawkeye (AWACS), and EA-18 Growler.

Also the Naval force that accommodates a Carrier Group is much larger than what accommodates an Amphibious Assault Ship.

 

[nuensis]

I admittedly didn't read all the way through and anchored on the DF-21 hypersonic missile thing.

The more you read the worse it gets.

Here's some concept material on USN/USMC integration for this "contested environment" problem.

https://www.hqmc.marines.mil/Portals/160/LOCE%20full%20size%20edition.pdf?ver=2018-06-20-095003-177

Expeditionary Advanced Base Operations (EABO)

Expeditionary Advanced Base Operations is a form of expeditionary warfare that involves the employment of mobile, low-signature, operationally relevant, and relatively easy to maintain and sustain

www.marines.mil

Calling an ARG with embarked MEU a poor man's aircraft carrier is a real slight on the USMC.