Choosing a Language

[SA25]

Hi everyone! I'm a candidate for the class of 2025 and am struggling to choose a language. For a bit of background, I have taken 4 years of high school Spanish (including AP Spanish this year). While I enjoy the language and culture I am also excited by the idea of learning a totally new language. I also want to consider the future usefulness of Spanish verses another offed language such as Arabic or Chinese as an Army officer. In addition, I am extremely interested in study abroad/exchange opportunities. I am looking for any advice on choosing a language and more information on the criteria for earning a study abroad slot. For example, would I be significantly more likely to study abroad if I continue Spanish? Thank you!

 

[dutydidnotwait98]

I've made some mistakes in this area that may be useful for you to learn from. I took a language in high school and attempted to learn other languages that matched up to whatever the Army priority was at that time. All I ended up with was a hodge pot of languages that I speak with minimal effectiveness. In hindsight, I wish I would've gained more proficiency in the language I started out with. You being able to test well on a language proficiency test is more useful to the Army then being able to say Hi in 3 different languages.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

Tough one.
I took German in high school and continued my studies in college, majoring in German Literature. This was before the Wall came down, so I assumed I would get to Germany and use this language.
Well... needs of the Army. Korea. Panama, Columbia. French and Spanish Sahara. Spain. Middle East. I didn't get to Germany once while in the Army. Well, I take that back. My "freedom bird" stopped there coming back from the Middle East.
My thought would be to concentrate on Spanish, try to get fluent. See if you can do a semester abroad somewhere where you can use it.

 

[Casey]

There are study abroad opportunities for pretty much every language offered, either summer immersion or semester abroad, if you competed well for a slot. That said, unless things have drastically changed (quite possible), just be aware you may not really get a choice of language to study at the Academy. You’ll take a language aptitude test when you get there which coupled with background history in different languages, West Point historically then used to place you into one of the offered languages. If you chose a strategic language, you were more likely to get your top pick. If you didn’t, it was much more luck of the draw. I had taken six years of Spanish prior to college, ended up in Russian, and really needed to have taken any kind of Korean for my Army adventures for my language background to have any kind of work relevancy.

 

[MidCakePa]

To the degree that you have a choice, select the language (and accompanying culture) that you find the most intriguing. Being highly interested in the language (and culture) will significantly increase your level of learning, enjoyment and accomplishment.

Beware taking a language because you think it’ll make it more likely that you get stationed in a related location or land a certain job. Needs of the Army will always take priority. You may be an Arabic whiz (or French whiz or Chinese whiz), but if your MOS and Army imperatives and language skill don’t line up perfectly, it’s not likely you’ll get the post or job.

 

[jl123]

My opinion: Unless you are planning to major/minor in a new language, choose the option that gets you to the highest level of proficiency.

DS validated two semesters of Spanish and was therefore required to take two upper level Spanish courses to complete his language requirement, which gave him a solid proficiency in the language. If he had switched to a new language, he would have taken two introductory courses and ended up with limited ability in two foreign languages.

If you are not able to validate, then it really doesn't matter which language you choose, although Spanish might be an easier grade for someone who already has some exposure to the language.

Of course, check to make sure core requirements haven't changed, as they sometimes do.

 

[DrMom]

Go with Spanish. You may not have a choice. You will have a lot on your place, you can never go wrong with achieving proficiency in Spanish.

 

[cb7893]

to each of the previous posts.

If you really take learning foreign language seriously, your top priority should be getting yourself into an immersive environment with limited opportunity to use English. My definition of proficiency is the ability to converse/write seamlessly about almost anything in your day to day life: family, school, job, friends, hobbies, your hometown. Fluency would add that ability applied to abstract ideas.

There is no reason you can't achieve that if it is your goal. At that, point would be the appropriate time to add a language, whether it be an other romance language which would be a breeze. That experience would also benefit you in learning an unrelated language like Russian, Chinese or Arabic.

 

[OldRetSWO]

to each of the previous posts.

If you really take learning foreign language seriously, your top priority should be getting yourself into an immersive environment with limited opportunity to use English. My definition of proficiency is the ability to converse/write seamlessly about almost anything in your day to day life: family, school, job, friends, hobbies, your hometown. Fluency would add that ability applied to abstract ideas.

There is no reason you can't achieve that if it is your goal. At that, point would be the appropriate time to add a language, whether it be an other romance language which would be a breeze. That experience would also benefit you in learning an unrelated language like Russian, Chinese or Arabic.

This is very true. I was a lackluster Spanish student in High School (2 yrs) and then took 3 yrs at USNA which were (I think ) all B's.
BUT. . . my high school had been majority hispanic and at USNA I had a roommate who had hispanic friends (including exchange mids)
who would visit and yak it up. The result was that I learned to understand a variety of dialects/regional idioms and although my grammar
and sentence structure was not great, I could communicate pretty well. It is now over 40 yrs in my wake and I can STILL communicate
to a reasonable degree in Spanish. Somewhat slow and I often really search for the proper vocabulary words and mangle the tenses BUT
I'm still able to walk through an area of Mexico (just before COVID) and converse/chat with locals.

I credit that immersion with my roommates friends as well as continuing to exercise some conversation with restaurant workers or Spanish
speakers that I encounter here and there.

 

[cb7893]

I need to proofread my posts. That last one was terrible. I'm beginning to question my own English proficiency.

My experience was 4 years of college Russian and I was not very good. I had to translate everything I heard into English and then translate my thoughts into Russian before speaking. It was very frustrating.

However, after four years I knew the grammar and had a large vocabulary. Following college I spent a school year in Poland. I never really had to study because Polish and Russian are close, like Spanish and Portuguese. I had a Polish roommate who didn't speak English and about two months in met the future Mrs cb7893, who also didn't speak English at the time.

Although I was never paid for my language skills, it has certainly enriched my life.

My DS on the other hand has unusually strong language skills that the Army was never specifically interested in until a particular opportunity arose. He was lucky was he was also ready to be lucky.

 

[quenty]

Don’t you also get a pay bump by being fluent in a language?

Also, pertaining to the post: ditto what everyone has said.

I’ve had a lot of time to think about learning due to COVID, and I think it’s almost a waste of time to take 1 or 2 years of a language but never follow through to be at least slightly conversational in it. Better yet, fluent.

I’ll most likely be taking Russian at USMA because that’s what I took in college, and I have pretty good language aptitude. Part of me said, “Oh yeah I’ll learn French, Russian, and Chinese.” But realistically, I couldn’t do that just because of all my other responsibilities especially as a cadet. Perhaps I could duel major in French and Russian and maybe you could do something like that with Spanish and another language of your choice.

 

[Casey]

You can get paid for being fluent if it’s considered a strategic language, the Army considers it a need they’re trying to encourage (ie Spanish speakers are not a need because of how prevalent they are), and you score high enough on the proficiency test for that language by the Army. There’s some nuance to eligibility allowed that increases the languages eligible for proficiency pay if you’re in a MOS specifically coded to require a language, even if it isn’t on the tier 1 strategic language list, but it’ll be fairly transparent to you if you are ever in those jobs.

 

[WT Door]

Don’t you also get a pay bump by being fluent in a language?

One receives a pay bump if serving in a billet that requires language proficiency and by passing a Defense Language Institute (DLI) test battery while serving in that particular billet. I served in a billet that required annual testing to receive language pay. The pay is not carried over on the next set of orders. The DLI proficiency levels are 0-5 in the target language. Zero is no proficiency. Five is a native speaker proficiency. If my memory serves me right, the cut offs to receive pay was in the 2+ to 3 range. The average of my Italian language counterparts (Army, Navy, AF) at DLI tested 0+ to 1+ in reading, speaking and listening. The most difficult part is the listening comprehension section. As mentioned by @cb7893, full immersion is the way to go. It gets people into the 2+ range fairly quickly once in country.

 

[NinoBaldacci]

Don’t you also get a pay bump by being fluent in a language?

Also, pertaining to the post: ditto what everyone has said.

I’ve had a lot of time to think about learning due to COVID, and I think it’s almost a waste of time to take 1 or 2 years of a language but never follow through to be at least slightly conversational in it. Better yet, fluent.

I’ll most likely be taking Russian at USMA because that’s what I took in college, and I have pretty good language aptitude. Part of me said, “Oh yeah I’ll learn French, Russian, and Chinese.” But realistically, I couldn’t do that just because of all my other responsibilities especially as a cadet. Perhaps I could duel major in French and Russian and maybe you could do something like that with Spanish and another language of your choice.

If the Army does it like the Air Force, you have to be using the language as part of your job to get paid. I know a USAF air traffic controller that was sent to DLI for French, and was then sent to Paris to work with the attache. He got a pay bump during his time in France, but when it was over, his pay returned to normal.

 

[Roadking]

I am also concerned for the language requirement for DS at WP, he took 2 years of Italian in Middle School and 4 years in HS and Italian is not offered at WP. I urged him when he entered high school to take Spanish, German or French but his friends went into Italian and he followed. He just took the WP language placement test and chose Portuguese #1 and German #2, he would have preferred German #1 but since Portuguese is combination of Spanish and Italian it may help him somewhat. I told him to investigate his options during Plebe year since language it slotted for Yuk year. His brother also told him that when he was at WP Portuguese was called "Portug-easy" by his peers, although no first hand knowledge since he took German....

 

[UHBlackhawk]

I have tried to encourage Cadets to take a language and to attempt immersion to actually LEARN a language. Unfortunately, the US does a horrible job teaching languages emphasizing the reading and grammar of a language over the actually speaking of a language. Personally, I think Spanish is a good language to learn and there is a pretty good chance of using it at some point in a military and a civilian career.
First, there’s a good chance that there will be some Spanish speaking soldiers working for you at some point. No, you don’t need to communicate in Spanish, but it’s not a bad thing to have in your hip pocket in such situations.
Second, you may well encounter Spanish speaking foreign soldiers. In Special Ops I worked with Mexican, Panamanian, Colombian, and Venezuelan (when they were our friends) soldiers. I got by without knowing Spanish, but it would have helped.
Third, you never know when you will be thrust into an assignment where a language will help. As an Aviation officer I found myself in the Sahara Desert as an UNMO (UN Military Observer). It was frustrating to always have to rely on a translator when I interacted with senior officers in the Moroccan Army (French) and the POLISARIO (rebels who spoke Spanish as their second language).
Quick “war story”. On my last meeting with the Moroccan commander in my sector he invited me to lunch and told me to leave my translator. I was initially confused, but assumed he would use his translator for the meeting. He greeted me in perfect American English. His children all lived in the US and he was fluent in English along with Arabic, French, and Spanish. He laughed and said he used a translator to give him an advantage in our meetings.
I included that tidbit in an INSUM for my replacement.
My point to that story is that there is much they don’t teach you in ROTC or the SAs. You never know what kind of off the wall assignment you’ll find yourself in or when a language will come in handy.

As a follow on, I have been able to use my German a little in my civilian career, though much of it is forgotten. Spanish would have been more useful. Then French, Korean, Chinese, and Japanese in that order.
Yeah... back to Korea. Who’d have thought.

 

[cb7893]

I am also concerned for the language requirement for DS at WP, he took 2 years of Italian in Middle School and 4 years in HS and Italian is not offered at WP. I urged him when he entered high school to take Spanish, German or French but his friends went into Italian and he followed. He just took the WP language placement test and chose Portuguese #1 and German #2, he would have preferred German #1 but since Portuguese is combination of Spanish and Italian it may help him somewhat. I told him to investigate his options during Plebe year since language it slotted for Yuk year. His brother also told him that when he was at WP Portuguese was called "Portug-easy" by his peers, although no first hand knowledge since he took German....

My DS spent his Junior Year of HS in Brazil. When he returned for his Senior year he enrolled in AP Spanish having never taken a Spanish class in his life. He aced the course, but at the first parent/teacher conference his teacher said Xxxxx is a smart and good kid, but please tell him to stop using Portuguese in class. When he went to college, he took two semesters of Italian because he knew he wouldn't have to study.

The point is not that my DS is smart, rather that Romance languages are so close that your son will have no issue moving from Italian to one of the others. There is a consistent pattern of difference between them. The commonality is the verb tenses, which happen to be the most challenging for English speakers.

 

[Roadking]

My DS spent his Junior Year of HS in Brazil. When he returned for his Senior year he enrolled in AP Spanish having never taken a Spanish class in his life. He aced the course, but at the first parent/teacher conference his teacher said Xxxxx is a smart and good kid, but please tell him to stop using Portuguese in class. When he went to college, he took two semesters of Italian because he knew he wouldn't have to study.

The point is not that my DS is smart, rather that Romance languages are so close that your son will have no issue moving from Italian to one of the others. There is a consistent pattern of difference between them. The commonality is the verb tenses, which happen to be the most challenging for English speakers.

Thank you that makes me feel better!

 

[OldRetSWO]

I have tried to encourage Cadets to take a language and to attempt immersion to actually LEARN a language. Unfortunately, the US does a horrible job teaching languages emphasizing the reading and grammar of a language over the actually speaking of a language. Personally, I think Spanish is a good language to learn and there is a pretty good chance of using it at some point in a military and a civilian career.
First, there’s a good chance that there will be some Spanish speaking soldiers working for you at some point. No, you don’t need to communicate in Spanish, but it’s not a bad thing to have in your hip pocket in such situations.
Second, you may well encounter Spanish speaking foreign soldiers. In Special Ops I worked with Mexican, Panamanian, Colombian, and Venezuelan (when they were our friends) soldiers. I got by without knowing Spanish, but it would have helped.
Third, you never know when you will be thrust into an assignment where a language will help. As an Aviation officer I found myself in the Sahara Desert as an UNMO (UN Military Observer). It was frustrating to always have to rely on a translator when I interacted with senior officers in the Moroccan Army (French) and the POLISARIO (rebels who spoke Spanish as their second language).
Quick “war story”. On my last meeting with the Moroccan commander in my sector he invited me to lunch and told me to leave my translator. I was initially confused, but assumed he would use his translator for the meeting. He greeted me in perfect American English. His children all lived in the US and he was fluent in English along with Arabic, French, and Spanish. He laughed and said he used a translator to give him an advantage in our meetings.
I included that tidbit in an INSUM for my replacement.
My point to that story is that there is much they don’t teach you in ROTC or the SAs. You never know what kind of off the wall assignment you’ll find yourself in or when a language will come in handy.

As a follow on, I have been able to use my German a little in my civilian career, though much of it is forgotten. Spanish would have been more useful. Then French, Korean, Chinese, and Japanese in that order.
Yeah... back to Korea. Who’d have thought.

I spent a few weeks helping run an Air Defense cell on one of our command ships and the majority of the rest of the embarked staff aboard was the CFLCC (Land Forces Commander) which was being performed by the command staff of the Puerto Rican National Guard. They were of course in full US Army uniforms and when communicating outside the ship were doing so in English but in person, in the wardroom and elsewhere were probably speaking 90% Spanish. Being able to understand and communicate with them in the mother tongue was a bonus.

 

[WT Door]

I have tried to encourage Cadets to take a language and to attempt immersion to actually LEARN a language. Unfortunately, the US does a horrible job teaching languages emphasizing the reading and grammar of a language over the actually speaking of a language.

A Dutch Naval Officer told this joke at the bar at our HQ.

What is someone that speaks more than four languages called? A polyglot.
Three languages? Tri-lingual.
Two languages? Bi-lingual.
One language? An American.

He'd change the punch line if he wanted to poke fun at a Brit.