Class of 23 & 24 Shotgunning

[ders_dad]

I hope summer training for the current 3/Cs comes off without too many snafus. Seems like it could be make or break for some.

 

[A1Janitor]

They’re going to use the formula the Admissions Office uses to ensure a balanced class set in each company. Within those constraints it will probably be random.

I guess I don’t know how it could be strictly random.

What happens to squad leaders and detailers for instance?

 

[AggieTexan]

The point about a lack of professionalism and discipline is a generalization, but it is a problem with many mids in ‘23 and ‘24 in the eyes of the senior officers on the Yard. But I do think it’s not all their fault.

‘24 had several ROMs that interfered with training. The class of ‘23 missed out on the second half of spring semester and the first half of this most recent fall semester during the phased return, and got no summer trainings. 3/C have always been at a higher risk for conduct cases since they no longer are under continuous supervision while still having few privileges, but this year it’s even starker, along with the large number of physics honor cases.

These aren’t my concerns, this is just how the senior officers on the Yard view the situation. The scramble is not meant to be a punishment but rather a way to force these mids and all 30 companies to rebuild their reputations. Will it work? I’ll leave that for more experienced minds than mine.

I hate the generalization but I can see how that could be the perception. The class of ‘23 has had 2 years of “abnormal” and I think that has probably led to some bad choices, topped off by the cheating scandal.

The Mids I know in ‘23 were looking forward to summer training followed by (hopefully) a “normal” year at the Academy, but it looks like there will be more challenges for them.

My Mid has been chosen to participate in the Service Academy Exchange Program next fall. I can’t imagine what it will be like for him to return to a new company and new roommates who have spent the fall semester becoming a unit. I’m sure he will take it in stride because he seeks challenges instead of taking the path of least resistance. As a sensitive, non-military woman, I think it would be horrible!

 

[FutureAcademyDad?]

Absolutely. And by taking this action, they are clearly taking responsibility for the situation and taking the unpopular steps that they believe to be appropriate to address the situation.

Just to be clear, I am not disagreeing with the decision by Leadership to take remedial action. I was simply pointing out that all levels of Leadership need to own their shared responsibility for allowing the situation to develop to the point that such relatively extreme action is necessary and not simply blame the underclassmen.

Of course, the Plebes and Youngsters also need to acknowledge their own culpability for their behaviors.

As I essentially said in my first post in this thread, "this, too, shall pass".

 

[OldRetSWO]

Just to be clear, I am not disagreeing with the decision by Leadership to take remedial action. I was simply pointing out that all levels of Leadership need to own their shared responsibility for allowing the situation to develop to the point that such relatively extreme action is necessary and not simply blame the underclassmen.

Of course, the Plebes and Youngsters also need to acknowledge their own culpability for their behaviors.

Culpability implies blame and this seems to me to be a natural effect of the COVID shutdowns and how the two classes have developed or in some cases not developed. Of necessity or some might say in a vacuum, informal organizations and go-tos have taken hold and shaking the organization up will overcome them and hopefully help normalize the USNA experience. I don't mean to nitpick over the word choice but to my eyes, the ship's (USNA) course correction is due to the wind and not due to a poor helmsman (due to COVID, not due to 23+24)

 

[WolfPackGrunt]

Culpability implies blame and this seems to me to be a natural effect of the COVID shutdowns and how the two classes have developed or in some cases not developed. Of necessity or some might say in a vacuum, informal organizations and go-tos have taken hold and shaking the organization up will overcome them and hopefully help normalize the USNA experience. I don't mean to nitpick over the word choice but to my eyes, the ship's (USNA) course correction is due to the wind and not due to a poor helmsman (due to COVID, not due to 23+24)

I agree, but I am leery of causation and blame on Covid- I've heard so much "because of Covid" excuses this year- yet in a large academic medical center we were able to restore operations and revenue streams early last summer, for two main reasons. First, patients need healthcare, second revenue is needed to stay in business. I will yield that the federal machine is vastly different to my example, and jurisdictional and bureaucratic limits set at high leadership levels make progress in many areas very difficult- so there validity to that. I am very hopeful that we as a Nation are going to get past Covid in the near future, but the ripple effects will likely be felt long thereafter and we'll absolutely have to effectively deal with them.

 

[OldRetSWO]

I agree, but I am leery of causation and blame on Covid- I've heard so much "because of Covid" excuses this year- yet in a large academic medical center we were able to restore operations and revenue streams early last summer, for two main reasons. First, patients need healthcare, second revenue is needed to stay in business. I will yield that the federal machine is vastly different to my example, and jurisdictional and bureaucratic limits set at high leadership levels make progress in many areas very difficult- so there validity to that. I am very hopeful that we as a Nation are going to get past Covid in the near future, but the ripple effects will likely be felt long thereafter and we'll absolutely have to effectively deal with them.

The military has established and much of the Navy still has very strict COVID guidelines that have most in near-confinement as they have been for a very long time. I get that some organizations have been back to near-normal for a long time but DoD has not done that. I live near an Army base which does R&D and Program Management with a largely civilian workforce. They have been out of their offices for a year now and I don't think that will change until at least the summer.

 

[NavyHoops]

They’re going to use the formula the Admissions Office uses to ensure a balanced class set in each company. Within those constraints it will probably be random.

As someone who lived through this… there were 2 Mids who got shot gunned to the company I landed in. Me and my room mate as a Plebe. She was terrible and I was so excited to get another room mate ans then when the list came out I thought it was a sick joke. For those with DDs, you know at USNA there is a lot less female rooms. For my year groups, that meanest about 1-2 female rooms per class. I was pretty adamant not to room with her again. I had volunteered the year before because it was a huge squabble because no one wanted to room with her. I finally just said I would. She eventually left USNA for a myriad of reasons… it was not the right place for her.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

Did academy leadership handle the pandemic perfectly? Of course not. Did they do the best they could with the information they had? I believe so. Are a lot of people looking back and saying they would have done differently and better if put in the same position? Absolutely — and isn’t it nice to have the luxury of 20/20 hindsight.

If there indeed was a failure, then I credit leadership with trying to do something about it. Real leadership is about doing the hard right and not the easy wrong. Some of the best decisions are also highly unpopular. Such is life.

I suspect that my opinion isn't going to be popular with the Parents here, but I am amazed there are 6 pages of hand-wringing over the decision to shotgun or scramble the Midshipman. Before the day of Facebook, SAF, or Cell Phones with daily calls to Parents, if the Midshipmen were told they were being scrambled, there would be grumbling and talk of BOHICA, but then a hearty "aye aye" and carrying out the Plan of the Day. I don't think something like this even merited mention to parents, and pleasing parents was never on the the Administration's radar.

This is a Brigade leadership issue; I trust that 'Dant is a solid leader, and consulted with both the Upperclass Chain of Command and his own Staff, and concluded that shotgunning both '23 and '24 was the best way to fulfill the Naval Academy's mission of developing Midshipmen to be Naval (and Marine Corps) officers. USNA is a SERVICE academy -- N*T College. Complaining about the decision is not productive.

All this talk about '23 dropping out before 2 for 7 is disturbing. I get that the last 13 months have been tough mentally -- they have been tough on all of us. However, in many ways being at a Service Academy (or having a kid at a Service Academy) is easier than being a regular college. (I have a daughter in Grad School now, and she has been cooped up in a studio apartment 12 hours from home since last June). COVID has been tough on everyone, but it is also an opportunity to demonstrate resilience and leadership. If Midshipmen are sitting around talking about DOR'ing ..they haven't gotten that message.

 

[A1Janitor]

I suspect that my opinion isn't going to be popular with the Parents here, but I am amazed there are 6 pages of hand-wringing over the decision to shotgun or scramble the Midshipman. Before the day of Facebook, SAF, or Cell Phones with daily calls to Parents, if the Midshipmen were told they were being scrambled, there would be grumbling and talk of BOHICA, but then a hearty "aye aye" and carrying out the Plan of the Day. I don't think something like this even merited mention to parents, and pleasing parents was never on the the Administration's radar.

This is a Brigade leadership issue; I trust that 'Dant is a solid leader, and consulted with both the Upperclass Chain of Command and his own Staff, and concluded that shotgunning both '23 and '24 was the best way to fulfill the Naval Academy's mission of developing Midshipmen to be Naval (and Marine Corps) officers. USNA is a SERVICE academy -- N*T College. Complaining about the decision is not productive.

All this talk about '23 dropping out before 2 for 7 is disturbing. I get that the last 13 months have been tough mentally -- they have been tough on all of us. However, in many ways being at a Service Academy (or having a kid at a Service Academy) is easier than being a regular college. (I have a daughter in Grad School now, and she has been cooped up in a studio apartment 12 hours from home since last June). COVID has been tough on everyone, but it is also an opportunity to demonstrate resilience and leadership. If Midshipmen are sitting around talking about DOR'ing ..they haven't gotten that message.

I suspect many mids and parents agree with you.

 

[Heatherg21]

I suspect that my opinion isn't going to be popular with the Parents here, but I am amazed there are 6 pages of hand-wringing over the decision to shotgun or scramble the Midshipman. Before the day of Facebook, SAF, or Cell Phones with daily calls to Parents, if the Midshipmen were told they were being scrambled, there would be grumbling and talk of BOHICA, but then a hearty "aye aye" and carrying out the Plan of the Day. I don't think something like this even merited mention to parents, and pleasing parents was never on the the Administration's radar.

This is a Brigade leadership issue; I trust that 'Dant is a solid leader, and consulted with both the Upperclass Chain of Command and his own Staff, and concluded that shotgunning both '23 and '24 was the best way to fulfill the Naval Academy's mission of developing Midshipmen to be Naval (and Marine Corps) officers. USNA is a SERVICE academy -- N*T College. Complaining about the decision is not productive.

All this talk about '23 dropping out before 2 for 7 is disturbing. I get that the last 13 months have been tough mentally -- they have been tough on all of us. However, in many ways being at a Service Academy (or having a kid at a Service Academy) is easier than being a regular college. (I have a daughter in Grad School now, and she has been cooped up in a studio apartment 12 hours from home since last June). COVID has been tough on everyone, but it is also an opportunity to demonstrate resilience and leadership. If Midshipmen are sitting around talking about DOR'ing ..they haven't gotten that message.

As a parent of a plebe, I have no problems with your statement. They chose a hard path. Covid or not. They chose a lot of 'unknowns'. I lend an ear when needed and we move on. As a wise one said here, it's their merry-go-round to jump off if that is what they need.

I'm glad the job of navigating this isn't my gig, that's for sure. The FB pages went crazy yesterday and I just had to stop looking at all of the posts.
There is something special that may come of all of this. These classes, if they rise to the challenges put in front of them may be some pretty resilient, empathetic, driven leaders. That's my hope anyway.

 

[NavyHoops]

In a positive… glad to see 2021 will have a mostly normal commissioning week and get a limited in person graduation they have earned. Another sign things are slowly getting back on track. On word on Sea Trials? Ring Dance?

 

[JmeBeMe]

In a positive… glad to see 2021 will have a mostly normal commissioning week and get a limited in person graduation they have earned. Another sign things are slowly getting back on track. On word on Sea Trials? Ring Dance?

My 2/C said Ring Dance postponed until Fall however they can wear their rings on the original date this May. He is assigned to lead a portion of Sea Trials and has not been told that his orders have changed.

 

[NavyHoops]

My 2/C said Ring Dance postponed until Fall however they can wear their rings on the original date this May. He is assigned to lead a portion of Sea Trials and has not been told that his orders have changed.

Glad to hear it’s still on, although slightly late. That is great! Hope Sea Trials is a go. They have always been a very company based activity so I figured that might help. Herndon could be questionable with 1200 bodies all slammed together, but vaccines could help mitigate a lot of that. Or maybe they climb it at reform as a way to put it all behind them.

 

[justdoit19]

Official word....perhaps Herndon will move to a different week? It’s very clear, that only selected guests will be allowed on the Yard during commissioning week.

USNA ANNOUNCES COMMISSIONING WEEK 2021 WILL BE IN PERSON

USNA ANNOUNCES COMMISSIONING WEEK 2021 WILL BE IN PERSON page for USNA News Center at USNA.edu. Updated Sat Apr 27 23:26:12 EDT 2024.

www.usna.edu

 

[justdoit19]

Official word....perhaps Herndon will move to a different week? It’s very clear, that only selected guests will be allowed on the Yard during commissioning week.

USNA ANNOUNCES COMMISSIONING WEEK 2021 WILL BE IN PERSON

USNA ANNOUNCES COMMISSIONING WEEK 2021 WILL BE IN PERSON page for USNA News Center at USNA.edu. Updated Sat Apr 27 23:26:12 EDT 2024.

www.usna.edu

I also wonder about Mids attending graduation. My personal opinion, is the plebes especially would benefit from attending. Alllll the feels. I know from my oldest experiences, that much of those experiences that are so meaningful have been missed, and are very beneficial to self development: visiting the Holocaust museum, Honor Flights, Arlington....commissioning would be a unifying event.

 

[parentalunit2]

Flash forward to 2048 or 2049:

Scene opens on the 25th reunion of the class of 2023 or 2024

Grad 1: Hey, remember when Covid was ending and the Dant said he wouldn’t shotgun us, but then he did?

Grad 2: Yeah, we were so pissed! Half the class talked about dropping.

Grads 1 & 2: [Share a hardy laugh together.]

Grad 1: Want another drink?

Grad 2: Sure!

End Scene

 

[ktnatalk]

I suspect that my opinion isn't going to be popular with the Parents here, but I am amazed there are 6 pages of hand-wringing over the decision to shotgun or scramble the Midshipman. Before the day of Facebook, SAF, or Cell Phones with daily calls to Parents, if the Midshipmen were told they were being scrambled, there would be grumbling and talk of BOHICA, but then a hearty "aye aye" and carrying out the Plan of the Day. I don't think something like this even merited mention to parents, and pleasing parents was never on the the Administration's radar.

^^ This!
The availability of social media is causing more venting. I suspect many will be just that, vent, but not actually DOR. That said, military life is what they sign up for, and DOR is always on the table if so desired, with or without paying back.

Maybe I am getting closer to retirement, and it is easy for me to say you are free to go. However, ships will still sail, maybe they will just be with more ROTC and OCS grads!

 

[beachcomber70]

So will they be moving companies during intercessional leave? i.e. before sea trials? I had assumed (my fault) that plebes would go through sea trials with their current companies. In all honesty, my plebe is having a hard time seeing the bigger picture right now (hopefully that will come). His two roommates have become probably the best friends he has ever had -it feels like a kick in the teeth at the end of a hard year and just when things were starting to look brighter.

I would think that they would do Sea Trials with current companies, as that is how they have been training...but that is just speculative. I do know that 2/C involved in Leadership for Plebe Summer are not leaving current companies until reform - so 2/C and1/C Detailers will stay together in Company for Plebe Summer.

 

[Don't Give Up the Ship]

I would think that they would do Sea Trials with current companies, as that is how they have been training...but that is just speculative. I do know that 2/C involved in Leadership for Plebe Summer are not leaving current companies until reform - so 2/C and1/C Detailers will stay together in Company for Plebe Summer.

Actually better to do SeaTrials with the new team and let them build and form a cohesive team.