Does being part Asain hurt?

[frenzymando]

Mine got in and checked white, so I don't think race is a negative...

There are stats that make it appear as if it is more difficult to get in as an Asian from an academic standpoint than it is to get in as a white.

http://www.ceousa.org/attachments/article/663/ceousa-service-adademies.pdf

"There is no evidence that Asian applicants receive special preference at


either of the military academies. In fact, there is evidence that the Asian

applicants with the same academic qualifications find it somewhat more

difficult to obtain admission than do their white counterparts at both

academies."

The average Asian appointee has to 50 points higher on the SAT to get into WP and 30 points higher to get into USNA.

The service academies aren't the only schools that have stats showing they favor whites over Asians.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-adv-asian-race-tutoring-20150222-story.html

"Lee's next slide shows three columns of numbers from a Princeton University study that tried to measure how race and ethnicity affect admissions by using SAT scores as a benchmark. It uses the term “bonus” to describe how many extra SAT points an applicant's race is worth. She points to the first column.

African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says.

She points to the second column.

"Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.”

The last column draws gasps.

Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission."

Based on that, it seems like Asians have a harder time getting into service academies, and colleges in general, than whites do.

However, what I think the studies fail to look at is the whole person. Getting into a service academy isn't just about having strong academics. You need good extracurricular and Asians tend to participate less in sports than whites do. I haven't studied the college admissions process so I'm probably not very qualified to say this, but I think that is what explains the gap(between whites and Asians). This might not be true, I don't work in the admissions office, I'm just a candidate. That's just what I think explains the gap. That being said, I would not be surprised at all if there were actually a penalty for being Asian.

 

[Maplerock]

"That being said, I would not be surprised at all if there were actually a penalty for being Asian."


I would.

And, no disrespect intended, you're a candidate. You haven't experienced cadet life. You are going to see a lot that surprises you.

 

[frenzymando]

"That being said, I would not be surprised at all if there were actually a penalty for being Asian."


I would.

And, no disrespect intended, you're a candidate. You haven't experienced cadet life. You are going to see a lot that surprises you.

I'm sorry if this comes off as an aggressive post, but why would you be surprised? They give points to other races, why not whites? Affirmative action is a real thing. Instead of penalizing Asians, maybe they do this:

African Americans get 280, Hispanics get 235, Whites get 50, Asians get 0.

Asians aren't technically being penalized in that scenario, everyone else is being given points based on their race(which in a way penalizes Asians for their race). Again, I'm not trying to be agressive I'm just curious why you think it would be surprising if Asians were put at a disadvantage compared to whites. They are already at a disadvantage compared to African Americans and Hispanics.

 

[Maplerock]

Maybe because i've been around the service academies on a regular basis since 2001.

 

[Replevin]

The title of this thread is pretty funny if you think about it

Good, I'm not the only person who got a chuckle from the title.

 

[frenzymando]

Maybe because i've been around the service academies on a regular basis since 2001.

And...? Is there something that you have learned(in those 14 years) about the service academies that leads you to believe what you do?

 

[AlexT]

I can't find the date for the study cited above, but the analysis was based on data for plebes admitted in 1995 - 20 years ago! I wouldn't be relying on this to draw any conclusions on current admissions practices.

 

[Freda'sMom]

spelt?

 

[Maplerock]

Frenzy, if you make it, those upperclassmen are going to love you.

 

[MemberLG]

However, what I think the studies fail to look at is the whole person. Getting into a service academy isn't just about having strong academics. You need good extracurricular and Asians tend to participate less in sports than whites do.

Getting into West Point isn't just about having strong academics, but strong academics matter. Many public West Point information briefing show that the West Point candidate evaluation is 60% academics, 30% leadership, and 10% physical. So if you do the math, a candidate with strong academics but weak extracurricular should beat a candidate with weak academics but strong extracurricular. I am an Asian. I didn't play neither football or basketball when I was in high school, but I played soccer and lacrosse. If you look beyond football or basketball to include soccer, tennis, golf, badminton, volleyball, and etc I would think Asian student participation in sports might be proportional to any other race.

 

[fencersmother]

I think being part Patriots fan might hurt.

 

[MemberLG]

I can't find the date for the study cited above, but the analysis was based on data for plebes admitted in 1995 - 20 years ago! I wouldn't be relying on this to draw any conclusions on current admissions practices.

That's the problem. There is very little transpancies in the current admissions practices. Simply, we cannot say the admissions practices are fair or unfair. It should the colleges coming out proving their admissions practices are fair, not since it can't be proved unfair, it is fair.

Makes me wonder, if they are have fair admissions practices, why not disclose them?

 

[MemberLG]

Frenzy, if you make it, those upperclassmen are going to love you.

And he might become the First Captain.

 

[hopeful1998]

I'm a Mom using DS' account here ( probably ought to get my own . This may be an unpopular opinion, but I'd be thrilled if the entire process was " blind". No race, ethnicity, income, or legacy questions allowed on college apps, PERIOD. The writing portion of the ACT or SAT should be considered your admissions essay - no paid consultants, no working on prompts for 6 months (we all know some are paying to have their essays written for them). If you have a distinct cultural diversity that has truly effected your life, then put it in the essay. The point system mentioned above should disturb anyone who applying to college!

 

[USNAdadSF]

My son just started at USNA; he is half white, half Asian (my half). The current year's Plebe stats show increasing diversity in their class demographics. Integrity and character are most important, so be truthful. The admissions committee is looking for the complete individual that they believe will succeed as a Naval Officer. Don't worry about things that you can't change, just focus on being your best. Good Luck!

 

[frenzymando]

However, what I think the studies fail to look at is the whole person. Getting into a service academy isn't just about having strong academics. You need good extracurricular and Asians tend to participate less in sports than whites do.

Getting into West Point isn't just about having strong academics, but strong academics matter. Many public West Point information briefing show that the West Point candidate evaluation is 60% academics, 30% leadership, and 10% physical. So if you do the math, a candidate with strong academics but weak extracurricular should beat a candidate with weak academics but strong extracurricular. I am an Asian. I didn't play neither football or basketball when I was in high school, but I played soccer and lacrosse. If you look beyond football or basketball to include soccer, tennis, golf, badminton, volleyball, and etc I would think Asian student participation in sports might be proportional to any other race.

I am an Asian as well, and I happen to be a football player and a basketball player. In all of the years I have played, I have had 0 Asian football teammates and 1 Asian basketball teammate. So what I posted was probably very one-sided and inaccurate since it was based off of what I have experienced as an athlete, and the only sports I have played are football and basketball. You are probably right that Asians and whites participate in sports as a whole at about the same rate.

But, something else that might be worth considering is the fact that colleges probably care about having a strong football/basketball team more than they do about having a soccer, tennis, golf, badminton, volleyball etc team. I'm not certain if this is true, but I would guess football and basketball are the two college sports that make the most money, so they are the two college sports colleges want to be good at the most. The LeBron James of badminton probably would not be able to get in with a 900 SAT while the LeBron James of football might be able to squeak by with the 900.

According to this study, "Football players performed 115 points worse on the SAT than male athletes in other sports." and "Football players average 220 points lower on the SAT than their classmates. Men's basketball was 227 points lower."

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/paper-trail/2008/12/30/athletes-show-huge-gaps-in-sat-scores

I think the first piece of datum is the significant one. Football players performed 115 points worse on the SAT than male athletes in other sports. Since basically no football players are Asian, the average SAT for non-Asians goes down because of football players while the average SAT for Asians remains the same.

 

[MemberLG]

But, something else that might be worth considering is the fact that colleges probably care about having a strong football/basketball team more than they do about having a soccer, tennis, golf, badminton, volleyball etc team. I'm not certain if this is true, but I would guess football and basketball are the two college sports that make the most money, so they are the two college sports colleges want to be good at the most. The LeBron James of badminton probably would not be able to get in with a 900 SAT while the LeBron James of football might be able to squeak by with the 900.

According to this study, "Football players performed 115 points worse on the SAT than male athletes in other sports." and "Football players average 220 points lower on the SAT than their classmates. Men's basketball was 227 points lower."

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/paper-trail/2008/12/30/athletes-show-huge-gaps-in-sat-scores

I think the first piece of datum is the significant one. Football players performed 115 points worse on the SAT than male athletes in other sports. Since basically no football players are Asian, the average SAT for non-Asians goes down because of football players while the average SAT for Asians remains the same.

I think we getting off track and I disagree with your analysis on the impact of football player/basketball player have on Asian SAT scores. Can't compare athletes against a race. Football and Basketball players are not from one single race. We need to compare apples to apples, so more definitive comparison will be athletes against athletes or racial group against racial group. As soon as you pick a group within a group, you are trying mainuplating the outcome. Also the USNEWS article 54 public universities. Not sure what the outcome of the study would have been if it also included small private colleges.