Sorry I'm coming late to this party! I have to say that as I read the thread, almost everything I wanted to say was already said by MemberLG and I agree with/support everything he's said, both from my time at WP and what I know from current cadets/parents. Some points:
The AFA has implemented now that doors must remain open, but that is it.
Are you sure on this? My son told me the opposite - that to be "fair" they could now close doors with a female in the room, which was prohibited in the past.
An honor code violation will get you separated, a reg violation might get you separated. I never said hazing has no impact on honor.
Not all hazing are bad (I will qualify "hazing" as yelling aloud, invading someone's personal space, uniform drills (i.e. change into Dress Gray in five minutes, change into you PT uniform, and etc). Too my surprise, I was a big hazer when I was a summer cadre at West Point for new cadets. Many of my friends were surprised as I was a very nice person
A part of my responsibilities as a cadre was to get them ready for the academic year. I could have been nice to new cadets, but if I did I would not have them be prepared for likely hazing experience they will face during the academic year.
Agree with this whole statement and the clarification on hazing, which is kind of a uniquely WP word and doesn't have the same connotations as it might at a civilian college frat or a school like VMI. It was simply used to mean being yelled at or having someone get in your face or make you do stupid stuff, which certainly wouldn't get the person doing it thrown out. Kind of like AF's current "we were beat by someone" meaning dropped for pushups, hazing was an everyday WP word when I was there at least.
Are we at the point we argue regulation over honor? If so that is sad.
I've also gone into the regs vs honor argument many times with other USAFA parents. Pima, honestly, have you never exceeded the speed limit or run a stop sign? Those would all be considered equivalent to many of the "regs" at WP, which are simply rules - some far more stupid than others. In the civilian world obviously there's a huge difference between not coming to a full stop and committing murder. Same in the world of regs at an academy. Failing to turn in a homework assignment would be a regs violation that would get you a slap on the wrist or a lower grade. Driving off base when not permitting and getting a DUI after hitting another car and putting someone in the hospital would get you thrown out (if not into jail). But neither would have anything to do with honor.
I think the difference is that there aren't levels in honor like there are in regs. For honor, it doesn't matter how serious the offense is, it matters that the offense occurred (at least while I was there - I realize now there are things like honor probation and remediation, etc. - let's not even go there.
). If you copied one answer on an ungraded homework assignment from a roommate and didn't acknowledge it that would be as much of an honor violation as getting all the answers to the final exam in advance.
Yes, if he committed an honor violation.
However, a cadet can be kicked out via honor code for lying about his or sexual orientation.
No, why is it lying? If someone ask you how many sexual partners you had and you answer "none of your business," is that lying.
Cut and pasted parts of this answer, but I fully agree with it. I still remember coming back from my first weekend away with my boyfriend at WP (now my husband of 23 years
) and being asked by my roommates if we'd slept together and being very uncomfortable answering that question (being raised in a strict Catholic family!). Saying "none of your business" would have been fine. Saying no, if I did in fact sleep with him would have been an honor violation - even though there was nothing "wrong" (in the Army's eyes) with having done so.
So is a gay cadet, in answering "no" to the question "Are you gay" committing an honor violation for not revealing that he is gay?
I agree, but you opened up the scenario with this post:
Which is why I asked the question..
Mongo phrased the question first, not MemberLG. He was just answering it from the WP perspective.
Luigi - really, you're an academy grad and haven't figured out how to avoid the direct question?
(At least in the case of peers as we're talking about in this scenario). One of my favorite quotes - "Honor was a microscope. It could also be a guillotine." (Name the book - anyone?
).
I just don't see the difference between this and Scout's example above about a female being asked about a lewd act or something similar. I was asked a lot of inappropriate questions like that during my time in the Army, and it's certainly not hard to turn it into a joke and/or avoid the question. I would agree that answering no to the question, when you KNEW you were gay, would be an honor violation. Period.