Earthquake in haiti

And the rest of "The Free World" respected us how? The Nobel has become a PC joke. "Highly Coveted" I don't think so. I would take the money however. Ravaged economies, absolutely. Who caused the ravage and who rebuilt the economies?
 
This is a concise explanation and list of the U.S. military assets that have been committed to the Haiti disaster relief. The links at the end will take you to articles with more details.

http://www.defensestudies.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/cds-issue-alert-haiti-1-15.pdf

From the article:
U.S. Forces Deployed to Haiti:
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82nd Airborne Division: 100 soldiers of Bravo Troop, 1st Squadron, 73rd Cavalry Regiment, 82nd Airborne Division arrived in Haiti on January 15, with a command and control element of the 82nd ABN’s 2nd Brigade Combat Team following closely behind. The remainder of the 2/82 BCT, roughly 3,500 soldiers, are expected to arrive in the country by Sunday evening.5
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22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit: The MEU is comprised of roughly 2,200 Marines from the 3rd Battalion of the 2nd Marine Regiment; Combat Logistics Battalion 22; Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 461; and its command and control element. The MEU’s amphibious readiness group is comprised of the USS Bataan, the USS Fort McHenry and USS Carter Hall, each of which are equipped with heavy‐lift helicopters.6
•
USS Carl Vinson: The U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, equipped with 19 heavy‐lift helicopters and a crew of nearly 3,200, is operating from Port‐au‐Prince Harbor. Vinson, the flagship of the Carrier Strike Group 1 created last October, is commanded by Capt. Bruce Lindsey. Carrier Air Wing 17 is accompanying the Vinson on its mission to provide humanitarian assistance and disaster relief.7 The guided‐missile cruiser USS Normandy and frigate USS Underwood also steered for Haiti on January 13.8
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U.S. Air Force: Airmen and C‐130 cargo airlifters from the Air Force Special Operations Command have been operating in Haiti since January 13. MC‐130H Combat Talons and a C‐130E Hercules from the 1st Special Operations Wing are also currently operating in Haiti. Additional aircraft, such as MC‐130P Combat Shadows, have been dispatched, as well. Moreover, two MC‐130W Combat Spears from the 27th Special Operations Wing at Cannon Air Force Base, N.M., are standing by until further notice.9
•
U.S. Coast Guard: The U.S. Coast Guard has deployed a Disaster Assistance Response Team to Port‐au‐Prince and is using a C‐144 Ocean Sentry fixed‐wing aircraft for aerial reconnaissance. There are four major Coast Guard cutters in the region and two more are en route. The Coast Guard is supporting USAID’s relief efforts and conducting medevac missions with its C‐130, HU‐25, and C‐144 fixed‐wing aircraft and HH‐60 and HH‐65 helicopters deployed throughout the region.10
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AF6872 said:
Some moron just suggested that we give all Haitians TPS or "Temporary Protected Status". That means that anyone from Haiti may enter the United States as a refugee and stay in this country until they can return to the home country without fear of unsafe or overly dangerous conditions.
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It means that illegal Haitian immigrants already here before the earthquake can stay. DHS specifically stated that Haitians can not come after the earthquake and expect protected immigration status. Are you seriously saying that it is moronic that we don't deport tens of thousands of Haitians back into a disaster zone?
 
AF6872 said:
YEAH! And they all still hate us. Go figure:hammer:
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Many foreigners have a negative impression of the United States simply because of their most recent memory of America...GWB and his indisputably stupid and pathetic failure as president. As someone mentioned before, the whole world certainly has an obligation to respect America for rescuing many butts, more than enough times, especially in the last century alone.

American response to the crisis in Haiti only reveals why the US is, really, the greatest country to ever exist in history and the true reason why I believe America will rebound to become the number one superpower (and beat back the BRIC nations :smile:). Although I do agree that Obama's pledge of $100 million in our time of economic ruin is a bit over the top, I'm proud to live in a country that is so selfless and generous to its allies.

Anyway...there are now reports of chaos and a general breakdown of order...apparently its now an anarchy as the government and police have suddenly disappeared. Talk about being responsible. Looting is a problem and American and other humanitarian efforts are having trouble entering the country due to lack of security and unusable runways.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/17/world/americas/17haiti.html?hp
I suggest NYTIMES for updates on Haiti


Its really sad, no matter how many times I see or read about it in the news. So many Haitians are dead, not to mention that relief efforts are hampered. 15 Americans have been confirmed dead as well. And the UN post at Haiti was all but ruined along with other Haitian buildings, further slowing relief.

What a way to start out the new decade.
 
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Chockstock said:
Many foreigners have a negative impression of the United States simply because of their most recent memory of America...GWB and his indisputably stupid and pathetic failure as president.
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You will find many many service members who don't agree with that statement what so ever.


If you look to history....we may find some answers. In general, the largest power has the least "friends"....yes, they have friends, but people will find plenty to complain about, much like you complain about the principal or we complain about bosses.

The Roman Empire wasn't loved. It certainly wasn't one person that made it that way, but many.

If you'll remember back a decade, the 9/11/01 attacks were planned well before President Bush was in office.....

Certainly the British Empire wasn't loved, not because of King George I, II, or III, or any other king alone.

Cold War made it nice for countries, they could pick a side.


As for The Marshall Plan, yes it made some friends. If we used the tactics of WWII on anyone today, do you think they would be happy? Carpet bombing, atomic bombs....it was a different time, war was simple, kill the other guys, not "strategic bombing" or avoiding a school or mosque or daycare....the bombs fell where they likes, and we helped when the dust settled. Now, we're great friends with Japan and fairly good friends with Germany.

So, Chockstock, I'm not buying into your idea of why we're hated...if it was one man, then we wouldn't have had so many attempts in the past year.
 
SteveHolt243 said:
It means that illegal Haitian immigrants already here before the earthquake can stay. DHS specifically stated that Haitians can not come after the earthquake and expect protected immigration status. Are you seriously saying that it is moronic that we don't deport tens of thousands of Haitians back into a disaster zone?
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Which begs the question SteveHolt, how is repatriating Haitian migrants on their way to the United States any different? Also, were people anticipating a ICE push on the over 100,000 Haitians living in southern FL?
 
The crew of USCGC MOHAWK and a flight crew delivered a Haitian baby. There is some information online about it.
 
LineInTheSand said:
If you'll remember back a decade, the 9/11/01 attacks were planned well before President Bush was in office.....

So, Chockstock, I'm not buying into your idea of why we're hated...
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I never said that the source of all anti-American sentiment was purely due to one man. Its the anti-American feelings that run now in THIS decade are due to one man, Bush. BTW I dont think it matters how long the 9/11 attacks were prepared or how well they were carried out. What mattered was the Bush Administration's reaction to it, which I'm sure you and I can agree, fell flat on its face with awful consequences. The reason why most foreigners hated America rather than sympathized or tried to cooperate with us was because of our previous administration's attitude. Bush didn't work very well with our allies. He was not a team player. He didnt just help ruin our country but he weakened others' faith in our judgment and trust, both of which were squandered by Bush's moronic actions in the 9/11 aftermath.

One thing you should keep in mind is that individuals always judge based on the latest actions of others...you could make it to class on time every day until come the last day of the semester and walk in 20 minutes tardy...and everyone would remember you as the kid who was ALWAYS tardy, even though it certainly was not the case. The same human psychology applies to whole nations. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter to the rest of the free world whether we saved them from the Nazis and then the Soviets, spend millions on foreign aid or disaster aid, if the most recent mark we leave on history is blasphemy, as was Bush's actions.

What would you or your colleagues attribute the reason as to why America is hated (or not hated)? Other than the fiscal irresponsibility that dropped us in a pile of **** along with the rest of the world, I dont see why else most others would be left with a negative impression of the US



LineInTheSand said:
if it was one man, then we wouldn't have had so many attempts in the past year.
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I dont understand what this means...many attempts of what?
 
Honestly, I don't agree with much of that either. You may be too young to remember the initial response to 9/11, or maybe your teachers have told you want to think, but the world was squarely behind the United States with our actions in Afghanistan. Yes, we lost some support after Iraq, but I chose not to forget the oil deals with France and Russia with Iraq, or the corruption of the UN president's son.

I also won't forget that

You seem to believe the United States was loved in the 1990s. Again, I don't see that. Whether it's the accidental bombing of a Chinese embassy or the U.S. Navy shooting down a commercial airliner.

Why do they "hate" us? Because we are the most prevalent country out there. We determine the direction of the world. Why create a European Union? Because they want some other "power" to counted the weight of the U.S.

And they don't ALL hate us. It's time to turn off MSNBC and CNN....we aren't hated by the world.

Maybe Poland and the Czech Republic aren't very happy with us to pulling out of the missile shield.

And what have we done to make people happy since President Bush. We've given ground to Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuala, Russia, China, etc....

And do those countries now love us? No. They will take as much as we give them. I wonder what Karl von Clauswitz would say about it.
 
Chockstock said:
I never said that the source of all anti-American sentiment was purely due to one man. Its the anti-American feelings that run now in THIS decade are due to one man, Bush. BTW I dont think it matters how long the 9/11 attacks were prepared or how well they were carried out. What mattered was the Bush Administration's reaction to it, which I'm sure you and I can agree, fell flat on its face with awful consequences. The reason why most foreigners hated America rather than sympathized or tried to cooperate with us was because of our previous administration's attitude. Bush didn't work very well with our allies. He was not a team player. He didnt just help ruin our country but he weakened others' faith in our judgment and trust, both of which were squandered by Bush's moronic actions in the 9/11 aftermath.

One thing you should keep in mind is that individuals always judge based on the latest actions of others...you could make it to class on time every day until come the last day of the semester and walk in 20 minutes tardy...and everyone would remember you as the kid who was ALWAYS tardy, even though it certainly was not the case. The same human psychology applies to whole nations. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter to the rest of the free world whether we saved them from the Nazis and then the Soviets, spend millions on foreign aid or disaster aid, if the most recent mark we leave on history is blasphemy, as was Bush's actions.

What would you or your colleagues attribute the reason as to why America is hated (or not hated)? Other than the fiscal irresponsibility that dropped us in a pile of **** along with the rest of the world, I dont see why else most others would be left with a negative impression of the US
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How old are you? If you are under 21, I'll attribute your ignorance to lack of education and lack of experience in how the world REALLY is rather than how you THINK it is (via MTV, CNN, and the Washington Post).

If you are older than 21, I'll just attribute your ignorance to ignorance.

After all, you believe that "the world" started "hating us" on January 20, 2001. Never mind all the terrorism, the killings, the targeted Americans, and the many men and women in uniform who died defending us from those who "didn't hate us" before January 20, 2001.

  • They didn't hate us in Lebanon 1983 when they bombed the Marine barracks and killed 241 United States Marines?

  • They didn't hate us when they bombed the USS Cole in 2000 and killed 17 United States Navy sailors?

  • The didn't hate us when the 1st WTC bomb exploded in 1993 in the parking garage, killing 6 United States Citizens?

  • They didn't hate us when they hijacked the Achille Lauro in 1985 and murdered an American passenger, throwing his body and wheelchair overboard?

  • They didn't hate us when they bombed the US Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya in 1998, killing 7 United States citizens?

  • They didn't hate us in 1996 when a truck bomb exploded at the US Air Base Khubar Towers in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 United States military members?

But now, "they" all love us, terrorism is over, hatred of America is over, no one wishes to do us any harm any more, we might as well disband the US military.

:rolleyes:
 
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Luigi59 said:
How old are you? If you are under 21, I'll attribute your ignorance to lack of education and lack of experience in how the world REALLY is rather than how you THINK it is (via MTV, CNN, and the Washington Post).

If you are older than 21, I'll just attribute your ignorance to ignorance.

After all, you believe that "the world" started "hating us" on January 20, 2001. Never mind all the terrorism, the killings, the targeted Americans, and the many men and women in uniform who died defending us from those who "didn't hate us" before January 20, 2001.

  • They didn't hate us in Lebanon 1983 when they bombed the Marine barracks and killed 241 United States Marines?

  • They didn't hate us when they bombed the USS Cole in 2000 and killed 17 United States Navy sailors?

  • The didn't hate us when the 1st WTC bomb exploded in 1993 in the parking garage, killing 6 United States Citizens?

  • They didn't hate us when they hijacked the Achille Lauro in 1985 and murdered an American passenger, throwing his body and wheelchair overboard?

  • They didn't hate us when they bombed the US Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya in 1998, killing 7 United States citizens?

  • They didn't hate us in 1996 when a truck bomb exploded at the US Air Base Khubar Towers in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 United States military members?

But now, "they" all love us, terrorism is over, hatred of America is over, no one wishes to do us any harm any more, we might as well disband the US military.

:rolleyes:
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Holy smokes, someone called me ignorant over the internet :rolleyes:

I read your post and was at a loss for words for some time. You totally twisted my words out of context and severely distorted what I meant. I definitely did not intend to provoke such a hostile response from another forum member for simply stating why America was generally hated for the past decade. I was merely bemoaning the fact that anti-American sentiment has been particularly harsh over the past decade. End of story. Never did I say that suddenly, after our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, people started hating us after centuries of undying love. Never did I say that before the invasions, everyone loved us to death. Never was I confused and so surprised that others were suddenly angry with us. America has been generally hated ever since its founding...I understand why that is and I never denied that. I was merely saying that that sentiment has been especially deeper in this past decade.

You can't compare previous terrorist attacks we suffered to 9/11. They are insignificant in a historical context when compared to 9/11. Of course the rest of the world wouldn't hate us after we were attacked then or on 9/11...they would sympathize with our victims. Did I ever say foreigners didn't, even in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attacks? Of course they did. All our allies sympathized with us. Why do you think that sympathy turned to resentment and dissatisfaction? Every time an American was killed overseas in every one of those incidents you mentioned, did we thunder into the country of the attack's origin and completely f*ck everything up? No. Did we do so after 9/11? Yes. Thats why the world hated us...because of the hasty and fail-tastic job we did with invading both countries. And we waved our big, fat ego in their faces in the process.


And much of the rest of the free world probably would have liked us more had we done a better job with the invasions. I won't repeat all that has happened since, but we really screwed up in both countries. Do you really think we went in prepared to nation-build? We went in to simply capture or kill the threats to our country...something we still haven't fully accomplished. No one in this country was prepared to provide security for two countries while they somehow, with our help, established a democracy, free of sectarian violence and oppression. Bush pulled the whole thing out of his @ss. Afghanistan is a failed state with absolutely no infrastructure whatsoever, and GWB failed even more in trying to create a country and forcing American taxpayers to pay for it...as well as pleading our NATO and OECD allies to commit to an unattainable goal. And we racked up trillions in debt over the wars, weakening the dollar and indirectly helping create the economic meltdown that brought us down (along with the rest of the global economy...the rest of the world loves us for our fiscal irresponsibility!). So, what is the world really like? What right-wing propaganda has CNN been feeding me thats so wrong?



LineInTheSand said:
Honestly, I don't agree with much of that either. You may be too young to remember the initial response to 9/11, or maybe your teachers have told you want to think, but the world was squarely behind the United States with our actions in Afghanistan. Yes, we lost some support after Iraq, but I chose not to forget the oil deals with France and Russia with Iraq, or the corruption of the UN president's son.

I also won't forget that

You seem to believe the United States was loved in the 1990s. Again, I don't see that. Whether it's the accidental bombing of a Chinese embassy or the U.S. Navy shooting down a commercial airliner.

Why do they "hate" us? Because we are the most prevalent country out there. We determine the direction of the world. Why create a European Union? Because they want some other "power" to counted the weight of the U.S.

And they don't ALL hate us. It's time to turn off MSNBC and CNN....we aren't hated by the world.

Maybe Poland and the Czech Republic aren't very happy with us to pulling out of the missile shield.

And what have we done to make people happy since President Bush. We've given ground to Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuala, Russia, China, etc....

And do those countries now love us? No. They will take as much as we give them. I wonder what Karl von Clauswitz would say about it.
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What I was merely talking about, until Luigi decided to turn it into a pissfest, is something that is already history. If you recall...a new president was elected into office about a year and a half ago. Politically, Bush is dead. Obama's star power has obviously altered peoples' opinion of American government. Yes, I watch MSNBC and CNN, and it seems to me that the Obama Administration is doing a hell of a lot better job with working with the international community and trying to do his best to cater to the needs of Americans (some beg to differ:rolleyes:) as well as those of Afghanistan and Iraq. The countries you mentioned who we "gave ground to" can't exactly be categorized with the rest of the world. Those specific countries have ALWAYS hated America - it has nothing to do with this administration or the next.

America has always been hated. America has always been liked. It depends on whose perspective you're looking from, and it so happens that mostly everyone else was on the other team during the Bush years. Thats all I've been whining about. What happened at the start of this century has nothing to do with what happened in the centuries prior to and how others' felt about America back then has nothing to do with how others' feel about America now.
 
Chockstock said:
Yes, I watch MSNBC and CNN, and it seems to me that the Obama Administration is doing a hell of a lot better job with working with the international community and trying to do his best to cater to the needs of Americans (some beg to differ:rolleyes:) as well as those of Afghanistan and Iraq. The countries you mentioned who we "gave ground to" can't exactly be categorized with the rest of the world. Those specific countries have ALWAYS hated America - it has nothing to do with this administration or the next.
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No, so the rest of the world you're talking about must be......Mongolia, the People's Republic of Congo, Sri Lanka....

who exactly are you talking about? Would you be talking about the allies we already had?

If so, this would be an interesting article to read....

http://inthefield.blogs.cnn.com/2010/01/18/join-a-french-debate-on-obama/

Certainly they don't fall into the "rest of the world" if we can only define the "rest of the world" by people who we do actually, generally get along with.

Of course, there's this...maybe this is the vast improvement in relations....

http://www.military.com/news/articl...elations-with-us.html?col=1186032310810&wh=wh

Maybe this is the love-fest cooperation that you're talking about?

http://www.military.com/news/article/russia-cautions-us-on-afghan-troops.html

Oh, no no no, this is much better for yielding results....

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE60G10120100117

Oh, I see now, it's revenge they want, but only the good, pro-USA kind that shows us that they love us....

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60H3KJ20100118

So, please Chockstock, in the wisdom of high school U.S. history, maybe even AP, where is all of this Pro-US love now that apparently we should be experiencing.

If "hate" existed before President Bush, and it still exists....then that would lead me to believe that maybe President Bush was not the problem. Maybe the "problem" is, we're an easy target because we are on top, and just as every other "King of the Hill" has experienced "targeting" of all the powers making the climb, so are we, now.
 
Chockstock said:
Yes, I watch MSNBC and CNN, and it seems to me that the Obama Administration is doing a hell of a lot better job with working with the international community and trying to do his best to cater to the needs of Americans (some beg to differ:rolleyes:) as well as those of Afghanistan and Iraq.
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Seems that they people of Virginia and New Jersey might not agree with that, nor possibly the people of Mass.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...ecord-low--hes-popular-African-Americans.html

or

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/18/barack-obama-one-year-anniversary-ratings


and of course support for the "most important thing in the United States, health care"...

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/poll-obamas-ratings-on-health-care-economy-drop-lower/

or

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/17/dem.backup.healthcare.plan/index.html


I'm just googling this information. I'm not taking this off of some "far-right" website....it's from Reuters, it's from CNN, it's from the New York Times...
 
Chockstock said:
I was merely bemoaning the fact that anti-American sentiment has been particularly harsh over the past decade. End of story.
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And I merely refuted your ignorant statement with factual accounts of terrorism and hatred toward America that occurred before the presidency of George W. Bush began on January 20, 2001.

Chockstock said:
You can't compare previous terrorist attacks we suffered to 9/11. They are insignificant in a historical context when compared to 9/11.
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Wow. I'm almost at a loss for words to respond with.

I cannot fathom how anyone, especially someone like yourself who is considering a military career, could actually use the word insignificant when talking about the deaths of American military personnel. I am nonplussed.

Tell the families of the 241 United States Marines killed in Lebanon by terrorists in 1983 how insignificant they were.

Tell the families of the 17 United States Navy sailors killed in the bombing of the USS Cole how insignificant their deaths were.
 
No computer at the O'Callahan this weekend in Annapolis, sorry.:thumb:

LITS:

Kudos to the CG once again. They may call submariners the silent service but all too often the CG is the forgotten service. Until someone needs them like yesterday.

STEVE:
Originally "TPS" meant anyone from the country granted that status qualified for immigration rights under "TPS". The current "TPS" for illegal Haitian immigrants now residing in this country is conditional and specific. This is a valid humanitarian response to a unique and terrible situation. No one in their right mind would send any of these people back to a disaster area. A former ambassador to Haiti was interviewed the other day and said that the granting of any kind of "TPS" might create great confusion in Haiti and a nightmare along the southern US coastline. Their status could be handled quietly within the State Department. Many Haitians would consider any official "TPS" a green light. They don't care that the law specifically excludes anyone trying to enter the United States now. They would hear what they want to hear and believe the rumor mills. What would be their alternative given their present situation? Just two days ago there was a video report showing people throwing away food distributions because some guy in the crowd was telling them they were beyond the expiration date. He was reading the packaging date of July 2009.
 
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Chockstock, even though the far left media ran its trap about the "U.S. damaged reputation around the world" during the election cycle that doesn't make it true. These are unsubstantiated claims made in an attempt to push a political agenda on the American people. In no way can you support the claim that George Bush had any effect in diminishing our support and that he damaged our relationship with our allies. We remain allies with Germany, UK, Canada, the list goes on and on and Iraq or George Bush didn't change any of that. The election of President Obama didn't change any of that. We remain enemies with North Korea, Iran, Libya, etc and the only difference between the current and past administrations is we are being soft and giving them more of what they want. Quit spewing bull**** and pay attention to what has actually happened and what is actually happening. Terrorism and hatred of America existed before the Bush administration and is continuing well after it. Terror has been a serious threat for years and continues to be a serious threat. Look back just a few weeks to Christmas day.

Thanks to the USCG and the rest of the armed forces for doing such great work in Hati.
 
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Chockstock—It would take a book about the length of Tolstoy’s “War & Peace” to rebuff everything you said. But instead, I’ll just respond to the absurdity of the following: “Obama's star power has obviously altered peoples' opinion of American government. Yes, I watch MSNBC and CNN, and it seems to me that the Obama Administration is doing a hell of a lot better job with working with the international community…”

If He’s doing such a great job getting the world to like us again, then why is it that an al-Qaeda operative tried to blow up Northwest 253 on Christmas Day?

He’s been in office exactly one year and look at everything He’s done to undermine our security:

a. He’s traveled the world and apologized for everything the Bush Administration has ever said or done.
b. Last spring He attempted to “reached out” to more moderate members of the Taliban
c. Ordered the closing of Club Gitmo.
d. Outlawed the term Global War on Terror, (now called Overseas Contingency Operation).
e. Terrorist Acts are now called Man-Caused Disasters.
f. Bestowed Miranda rights to terrorists captured overseas
g. Agreed to hold the trial of KSM and his band of merry 9/11 perpetrators in civilian court.
h. Outlawed tough, but effective interrogation techniques.
i. Criminalized the actions of CIA operatives who were following lawful procedures approved at the Justice Department.
j. Waited 3 days to get energized following the Northwest 253 episode. I guess vacation time with the wife/kids was more important than getting to the bottom of what happened.
k. Regarding NWA 253 Flight, DHS Sec stated that the system worked as advertised. I guess the Chuck Yeager axiom “Better lucky than good” was part of the plan.

Despite all these attempts to make nice, hold hands and sing John Lennon’s “Give Peace a Chance,” it’s mind-boggling that people would still want to kill us.

On national security, I had serious disagreements with the Bush Administration, but at least he had the guts to call terrorism evil and saw an attack as an act of war. Unfortunately, the Clinton and Obama Administrations viewed terrorist acts as crimes against the state. Perhaps former Clinton advisor and NYT bestselling author, Dick Morris, summed it up best when he stated that Dems see terrorism as a game of “cops and robbers.”

While millions all over the globe wear Chairman Mao-Bama T-shirts and celebrate his rock-star status, let us not forget that His number one priority is to protect and defend our nation.
 
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