Failing a class in Yuk year.

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by casmarkel, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. casmarkel

    casmarkel New Member

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    Cadet failed one class in first semester. He is on administrative leave for sixty days. He is suppose to take a retest.

    Is this correct? Can you tell me his options? He really wants to be back at WP. What happens if he fails? What happens if he passes the test? When does he come back when he passes?
     
  2. Cookiemom

    Cookiemom Member

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    What happens after 60 days? Seems harsh.
     
  3. casmarkel

    casmarkel New Member

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    He has sixty days on own to study. He has to leave the academy and is not allow to continue taking second semester classes. In sixty days he retests. Does this sound like the normal process? Are you familiar about others in same situation.
     
  4. A1Janitor

    A1Janitor Member

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    Seems wrong. So he loses a semester!
     
  5. Cookiemom

    Cookiemom Member

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    My son is a yuk but i am not familiar with this. I hope all works out for your yuk.
     
  6. Impulsive

    Impulsive Member

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    Only about 85% of Plebes graduate. Some leave for personal reasons, some for medical, and still a few for academic. I do not know the procedures for academic probation and discharge but I am pretty sure they are stringent. I would guess offhand if he fails the course again he will be sent home. I don't know, but I understand they are understanding and with 60 days to prepare if someone can't pass the retest I don't know what would happen. Check some of the other threads....these one where a current cadet answers questions. Maybe ask someone who actually knows?
     
  7. Love4monsters

    Love4monsters Member

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    There were 27 Yuks separated in January due to academics. I have no idea how it works. My son’s old roommate had to take a semester off after their Plebe year and is now back. Has your son been in contact with his academic advisor and TAC?

    I wish you both well.
     
  8. Love4monsters

    Love4monsters Member

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    Coursework can be made up during the summer or at times, cadets graduate a semester or 2 late.
     
  9. Casey

    Casey USMA 2015 5-Year Member

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    Yes, the Academy has a couple different options to give a cadet if they fail a class and their packet ends up being reviewed by the academic board. This situation is typically called separation with right to retest. Seen it most common with DPE courses. Many factors go into whether a cadet is given the opportunity to completely retake a class, if they're straight up separated based on academics, or given the ability to retest. We won't have visibility into the cadet's situation about why this decision was made, but his options right now are pretty simple if he wants to stay: study, put in the work, and pass his test. If he fails, its typically a complete separation at that point because the cadet has failed to prove they can perform at the level USMA requires. If he passes, depending on his timeline, he'll either be a semester turn back, or if his academic load can be sorted to keep him with his peers, he can stay with his class and graduate on time. That will be dependent on his academic counselor working with him on his schedule after he passes. He shouldn't worry about any of that right now. Cadets are only offered this option if at the academic board thought the cadet was worth keeping around and had potential to pass whatever course they're struggling with. He just needs to study and prepare as much as possible so he doesn't throw away the opportunity if he really wants to graduate and commission. Everything else will sort itself out after.
     
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  10. jaglvr

    jaglvr Member

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  11. A1Janitor

    A1Janitor Member

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    Department of Physicals Education?
     
  12. casmarkel

    casmarkel New Member

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    Casey;

    How often to cadets in this position pass the retake? He was not given the option to retake the class, is this common? This means that he could restart this semester next fall or he could jump into the same semester and finish it, correct? What happens if he passes, does he take the summer agenda courses?
     
  13. Casey

    Casey USMA 2015 5-Year Member

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    Yep, or Department of Pure Evil depending on what cadet you talk to

    casmarkel - it really is up to the academic board. When I was at school, it seemed more cadets passed the retake then didn't but it wasn't a common option when I was first there. It became more common as time went by with the Army starting to draw down and didn't need to commission as many 2LT's. There was also a rise in if you didn't meet the standard the first time, you weren't necessarily going to get a second chance. The retake at least offers another opportunity and in some ways seems to be meant as a gut check. Again, instead of just straight up separating the cadet, they're offering him another chance if he proves he wants it. Nothing is given or entitled to cadets if you don't meet the standard in the time provided. West Point doesn't have the same kind of attrition model it used back in the 80's but there's a reason that classes enter with around 1200 and it isn't uncommon for that class to graduate at under 1000. My class had about 250 cadets that separated for various reasons (academic, physical, disciplinary, voluntarily, etc.) and another 20-30 that didn't graduate on time but were turn backs to previous classes. Its a hard curriculum.

    What the rest of his academic program will look like if he passes will be up to his TAC and academic counselor. I had classmates who passed and graduated a semester later because they weren't able to reprogram their classes to meet all graduation requirements, even with STAP (summer school), to graduate on time and I had classmates who did. It will depend on the individual's specific situation and should be a conversation between the cadet and his academic counselor when he has passed the test. Until then, the focus just needs to be passing his retest. If he fails the retest, odds are he won't get another shot and will be fully separated although I do know of one of my classmates who was offered it twice based on improvement seen by the instructors from first take to second. That particular case was a DPE class specifically though and they gave the student extra time because you can only improve physical fitness so fast.
     
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  14. Impulsive

    Impulsive Member

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    Sounds about right......the ARMY doesn't want to commission 2nd LT's that can not perform. They are supposed to be in better shape mentally and physically to lead. Most SA's have similar physical requirements, and are easier on straight academic issues than on physical matters. I know two SA's that test cadets every semester and if after two retests they are not up to standards they are separated, not discharged. And be careful here, because you signed a contract and if you are separated sometimes either ryou owe them money or you have to serve out your contract time as enlisted.
     
  15. DrMom

    DrMom 5-Year Member

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    You all, this was not a cadet who failed a DPE class. It was an academic class.
     
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  16. SFRanger

    SFRanger Member

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    Sorry to hear this or about the situation. DS also indicates that there are many Plebes struggling both with DPE and the academic class load. He said he had to comfort one student crying, and stuck in their room, because they were over whelmed with the academic schedule. They have never gotten grades like this and did not know what to do or how to tell their parents this was just not the right choice for them. He is an academic tutor at the Academy for Calculus and Physics. At the same time, he is also being challenged in the courses.

    DPE is also no joke. Military Movement is the most failed class at the Academy. After that they go on to boxing. A skype call this week revealed a beautiful black eye from boxing class. Luckily we have seen them before from wrestling. Yes they only spar with other cadets their sex and size but they fight. DS said he is out to knock the other guy out because he knows the other cadet is going to do the same thing to him. You ever been hit by a man that is 6' tall 220lbs that hits you as hard as he can and has had training? You have to be ready for it. The training should have started years ago.

    Point is that it is now up to your DS. You have to decide if this is really the place for him. If it is, and he has the proper academic background, he will have to understand that he has to pass the test and go back and commit to studying at the library for 3 or more hours per night. This is what mine does. Weekends don't exist as homework need to be done and they have to work most of the day Saturday and Sunday. You will know if this is really what he wants because he will say things like "I am going to slay this SOB". He can not accept any excuses from himself or anyone else. On the bright side, I am sure he could probably get into almost any college in the US. It will be a tough pill to swallow but better than trying to push forward with something that is just not the right fit. The choice and commitment has to be his. All you can do is really help them find the right path.
     
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  17. shock-n-awe

    shock-n-awe Member

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    Failing one academic class alone and getting 60 days off from the Academy does not sound right. There must be other factors involved. Hard to say what all the factors might be, but there must be more to the story. To answer OP, it would seem pretty clear that if being on admin leave and offered a retest, that failing it a second time would result in separation.
    If this sentence has already been handed out, then the Cadet has met with TAC and AC advisor, and it was determined by Academic board to be the best course of action for the desired results. The Cadet will have a complete understanding of the why, what, and how to proceed. The Cadet must have the desire to proceed.....
    Best of luck to your DS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  18. casmarkel

    casmarkel New Member

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    Actually there were about four dozen who failed a course. Approximately Three dozen are taking the separation, while about a dozen appealed the decision. The later are being given the chance to retake the test. Pass or separation.
     
  19. SFRanger

    SFRanger Member

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    Sorry to hear it. I was told that approximately 200 cadets were put on disciplinary action or separated due to academic failure after first semester. They are calling it the Saturday night massacre. The teachers are not changing standards and it seems there are many children not ready for the combination of the academic stress and strict regimentation.
     
  20. tug_boat

    tug_boat 5-Year Member

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    If he passes the class he'll be a December grad. If he doesn't, he'll be separated for academics

    Push Hard, Press Forward