Foundation Program USNA

should i bother keeping faith that I might still have a chance for a direct appointment? Or should I just give it up?
 
mols.cast8 said:
should i bother keeping faith that I might still have a chance for a direct appointment? Or should I just give it up?
Click to expand...
if I were in your shoes, I wouldn’t view this as anything negative. With every obstacle comes opportunity. Maybe you didn’t get a direct appointment, but this now gives you the OPPORTUNITY to mature, strengthen yourself in every aspect, the OPPORTUNITY to attend a foundation school surrounded by other preps for USNA! Take this prep year as the time of opportunity:))
 
The relative I mentioned in my story had a younger sibling. That sibling attended the same h.s. but had better grades and far better scores. Was offered a direct appointment (and took it). Also graduated USNA. They are different human beings but both graduated from USNA.

My relative (who was SUPER successful in h.s.) went though the whole experience you described about "explaining" prep school. Part of the problem is that 90% person's h.s. classmates didn't attend college; they had no perspective. Got over it with the excitement of attending prep school.

I realize that part of being in h.s. is caring what everyone else thinks. 99% of us on this board have been there and done that. We can only tell you that, in the long run, it won't matter. It might suck for a few weeks (or even months), but mostly because the people you are talking to have no clue. Seriously, they don't. The concept of Foundation is totally foreign to them and they don't care enough to learn.

Making a decision on your future because of what your h.s. classmates may or may not think is very short-sighted. Whatever you decide to do, in 5 years, most of your h.s. classmates will no longer be your BFF. I can 100% guarantee that, two years from now, they will not remember or care whether you went to a prep school or what college you went to or much else. If it takes two years :)

Also, once you get to USNA, NO ONE cares whether you are prior enlisted, NAPS, Foundation, direct appointment, college "transfer," etc. They may be interested because you bring different experiences. But no one looks down on someone who is not a direct appointee. If anything, direct appointees look up to those people because they are older, wiser, more experienced, etc.

The only question you should ask yourself is: Do I want to attend USNA or do I want to pursue a commission via ROTC or OCS? Or no longer pursue a commission at all? That's it.

One last thought: If you ask most graduates who received a direct appointment what one thing they wish they could have done differently in the process, many will say they wish they'd had the opportunity for a "prep year." It's not just the academics, it's living away from home on your own, being a year older and more mature, etc. It definitely makes USNA easier and makes you more likely to be successful.

In the end, you control how you approach the next year. You can "fight it" every step of the way (stay mad, disappointed, whatever) -- in which case, it's going to be a long and miserable year. Or you can look at it as a great opportunity to set yourself up for long-term success. It's your decision -- the first of many you'll make as an adult.
 
usna1985 said:
One last thought: If you ask most graduates who received a direct appointment what one thing they wish they could have done differently in the process, many will say they wish they'd had the opportunity for a "prep year." It's not just the academics, it's living away from home on your own, being a year older and more mature, etc. It definitely makes USNA easier and makes you more likely to be successful.
Click to expand...

While I agree with virtually everything you have posted in this thread, and do agree that a Foundation/NAPS offer is definitely cause to celebrate, I don't agree that "most" SA graduates who receive direct appointments wish they had been offered a prep year. It's one thing to tout the benefits of receiving a "golden ticket" to a deferred offer of appointment, but it is something else again to downplay the benefits of a direct path. My kids and their fellow Mids/Cadets with whom I have interacted certainly did not regret receiving direct offers.

To be honest, it seems that the failure rate in prep is equal to, or possibly greater, than the rate of direct admits at the Academies.
 
Last edited:
DTT!FSA! said:
While I agree with virtually everything you have posted in this thread, and definitely agree that a Foundation/NAPS offer is definitely cause to celebrate, I don't agree that "most" SA graduates who receive direct appointments wish they had been offered a prep year. It's one thing to tout the benefits of receiving a "golden ticket" to a deferred offer of appointment, but it is something else again to downplay the benefits of a direct path. My kids and their fellow Mids/Cadets with whom I have interacted certainly did not regret receiving direct offers.

To be honest, it seems that the failure rate in prep is equal to, or possibly greater, than the rate of direct admits at the Academies.
Click to expand...
I agree with this - with my son and his classmates.

I would add that they respected the ones who weren’t direct appointments.
 
It is a fact that, at least as of one year ago, Foundation students entering USNA graduate at a higher rate than any other accession source.

I was a direct appointment. Foundation didn't exist in my day. That said, I misstated my point. It's not that people wish they hadn't received a direct offer, but I think many realize they would have benefited from an extra year. This is in hindsight -- maybe years later, not while going through the process or while at USNA.

I would have benefited in certain ways. For example, I didn't have great STEM prep and really struggled my first couple of years. I pulled it all together by 2/C year and finished quite strong, but it was more painful than it would have been had I received the extra STEM work at a prep school. I would also have benefited from help in athletics. My school (at the time) didn't have a great -- or even good -- athletics program. Had I been able to work with a good track coach, for example, my USNA life would have been a lot easier.

I'm happy I was given a direct appointment and may well have declined a Foundation offer (if it had existed) for the reasons the OP has raised. (Actually, I would have gone to USCGA). But, looking back, I realize had I been given that offer, it would have been wise for me to have taken it and that, almost certainly, I would have been in a stronger position while at USNA.

The above said, there are many for whom a prep year wouldn't offer significant benefits.
 
My original point was that the dropout rate during NAPS is higher than the dropout rate during USNA, not that NAPS students that matriculate to USNA had higher dropout rates than the general population. However, after looking at a couple of recent IEA's, it appears that both may be true. It is clear that a lower percentage of NAPS candidates move on to USNA compared to the percentage of Midshipmen that actually graduate from USNA. It is also true (at least for 2021 and 2023) that Midshipmen that matriculate to USNA from NAPS have a lower graduation rate than the overall population, which I found somewhat surprising.

USNA Class of 2023 Institutional Effectiveness Assessment
USNA Class of 2021 Institutional Effectiveness Assessment

(edit. Apparently 2019 was the only recent class where the graduation rate of NAPS appointees exceeded that of direct-entry appointees:
"...Midshipmen who matriculated to USNA from NAPS graduated at a 90.4% rate, the highest rate of any major feeder source. This is the first time in recent history that NAPS midshipmen graduated at a higher rate than direct-entry midshipmen...")
 
Last edited:
DTT!FSA! said:
My original point was that the dropout rate during NAPS is higher than the dropout rate during USNA, not that NAPS students that matriculate to USNA had higher dropout rates than the general population. However, after looking at a couple of recent IEA's, it appears that both may be true. It is clear that a lower percentage of NAPS candidates move on to USNA compared to the percentage of Midshipmen that actually graduate from USNA. It is also true (at least for 2021 and 2023) that Midshipmen that matriculate to USNA from NAPS have a lower graduation rate than the overall population, which I found somewhat surprising.

USNA Class of 2023 Institutional Effectiveness Assessment
USNA Class of 2021 Institutional Effectiveness Assessment

(edit. Apparently 2019 was the only recent class where the graduation rate of NAPS appointees exceeded that of direct-entry appointees:
"...Midshipmen who matriculated to USNA from NAPS graduated at a 90.4% rate, the highest rate of any major feeder source. This is the first time in recent history that NAPS midshipmen graduated at a higher rate than direct-entry midshipmen...")
Click to expand...
Amazing reports! Thanks for finding and sharing them.
 
... so this is just my banter (too much free time here or nonsense really) about the Foundation:

* Glimpse on the "other" side.
- Roommate. NBA Phenom, 6'10". 17 years old, extra year, for NCAA Division 1 eligibility. Dad is NBA star. Buying shoes $2,000.00 pair.
- Classmate. Travels in private jet. By. Himself.

* Swimming. Weak swimmer, works out after school with swimming coach. Becomes USNA proficient swimmer. Pass test one time.

* Foundation's Captain Standing Order. Mild mannered and polite Captain issues order (Like President Roosevelt, "Speak Softly but carry a big STICK."). Don't get in trouble with the law; Avoid Cs or Admissions will relook you; Stay fit/healthy; Pass fitness test. And this order is repeated constantly for 9 months. For some or most this is the dynamite that they are tied to (like Wile E. Coyote chasing the Road Runner). One way to succeed or explode in spectacular fashion, spectacular.

* Maturity. Time to mature physically, socially, intellectualy.

* Plebe Summer. With all that family separation and dealing with funky roommates/classmates already out of the way, one can just focus on training business.
 
severn said:
... so this is just my banter (too much free time here or nonsense really) about the Foundation:

* Glimpse on the "other" side.
- Roommate. NBA Phenom, 6'10". 17 years old, extra year, for NCAA Division 1 eligibility. Dad is NBA star. Buying shoes $2,000.00 pair.
- Classmate. Travels in private jet. By. Himself.

* Swimming. Weak swimmer, works out after school with swimming coach. Becomes USNA proficient swimmer. Pass test one time.

* Foundation's Captain Standing Order. Mild mannered and polite Captain issues order (Like President Roosevelt, "Speak Softly but carry a big STICK."). Don't get in trouble with the law; Avoid Cs or Admissions will relook you; Stay fit/healthy; Pass fitness test. And this order is repeated constantly for 9 months. For some or most this is the dynamite that they are tied to (like Wile E. Coyote chasing the Road Runner). One way to succeed or explode in spectacular fashion, spectacular.

* Maturity. Time to mature physically, socially, intellectualy.

* Plebe Summer. With all that family separation and dealing with funky roommates/classmates already out of the way, one can just focus on training business.
Click to expand...
I'll think about it-thanks for the advice!
 
Rach3 said:
Amazing reports! Thanks for finding and sharing them.
Click to expand...
do you think I still have a slim (very slim) chance of still getting a direct appointment? My brother who graduated from the academy says that sometimes kids get pulled off the foundation list
 
mols.cast8 said:
do you think I still have a slim (very slim) chance of still getting a direct appointment? My brother who graduated from the academy says that sometimes kids get pulled off the foundation list
Click to expand...
My Firsties buddy was originally NAPS, but was changed late to direct. He had accepted NAPS. So yes, first hand knowledge that it does happen. I don’t think it’s common. I also don’t think it’s something to count on.
 
justdoit19 said:
My Firsties buddy was originally NAPS, but was changed late to direct. He had accepted NAPS. So yes, first hand knowledge that it does happen. I don’t think it’s common. I also don’t think it’s something to count on.
Click to expand...
yeah thats what my brother told me. I guess I'm just finding any way now :confused: I just don't know how to get back on their radar
 
mols.cast8 said:
yeah thats what my brother told me. I guess I'm just finding any way now :confused: I just don't know how to get back on their radar
Click to expand...
Well it’s not up to you, or anything you have control over. It’s up to them. So don’t even spend time thinking about this.

You just need to stew on this a bit. Put it on the back burner for a bit. Maybe then you will gain some clarity.

I really think you are too hung up on what other people think. Honestly, that’s something you will need to grow out of. In only ONE year, no one will care. And a month after your graduate high school, your friend group will diminish from high school. Your real friends won’t care, and who cares what others think. And wherever you end up you will be meeting your new besties.

Have you talked this through with your parents? What is really bothering you? I think people are having a hard time understanding your seeming great conflict. You have gotten GREAT advice and perspective already. I would suggest putting it to bed, and revisiting this later.
 
justdoit19 said:
Well it’s not up to you, or anything you have control over. It’s up to them. So don’t even spend time thinking about this.

You just need to stew on this a bit. Put it on the back burner for a bit. Maybe then you will gain some clarity.

I really think you are too hung up on what other people think. Honestly, that’s something you will need to grow out of. In only ONE year, no one will care. And a month after your graduate high school, your friend group will diminish from high school. Your real friends won’t care, and who cares what others think. And wherever you end up you will be meeting your new besties.

Have you talked this through with your parents? What is really bothering you? I think people are having a hard time understanding your seeming great conflict. You have gotten GREAT advice and perspective already. I would suggest putting it to bed, and revisiting this later.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice-idk I guess in some way my parents feel disappointed in me just bc my brother was first in his class at the academy last year, and my sister got the principal NROTC scholarship bc of her academic success. I guess in a way I feel like I’m letting them down. I haven’t talked to my parents about it, but I was planning on doing that soon. I also come from one of the best schools in my state, where just about everyone goes to top colleges and universities in the country. I guess in a way, if I did choose to go to prep, my school would look down on me. Maybe prep is exactly what I need. We will see, though. And in time I will probably get my head out of the gutter.
 
You've admitted you struggled in your STEM classes... why would you want to be directly admitted? the academy thinks you have the potential to be a good officer, but need a year of extra work. If you were directly admitted, are you so confident you'd succeed? I don't know you or your situation, but these are questions I would ask myself if I were in your shoes.

I think you recognize your headspace is not where it should be right now to make a decision, which is good. Don't act off of emotion.

Make the best decision to set yourself up for success. Don't base your decisions on how you think others will perceive you, because that is a recipe for failure. I've seen it happen a lot in my very short life, lol.
 
DTT!FSA! said:
My original point was that the dropout rate during NAPS is higher than the dropout rate during USNA, not that NAPS students that matriculate to USNA had higher dropout rates than the general population. However, after looking at a couple of recent IEA's, it appears that both may be true. It is clear that a lower percentage of NAPS candidates move on to USNA compared to the percentage of Midshipmen that actually graduate from USNA. It is also true (at least for 2021 and 2023) that Midshipmen that matriculate to USNA from NAPS have a lower graduation rate than the overall population, which I found somewhat surprising.

USNA Class of 2023 Institutional Effectiveness Assessment
USNA Class of 2021 Institutional Effectiveness Assessment

(edit. Apparently 2019 was the only recent class where the graduation rate of NAPS appointees exceeded that of direct-entry appointees:
"...Midshipmen who matriculated to USNA from NAPS graduated at a 90.4% rate, the highest rate of any major feeder source. This is the first time in recent history that NAPS midshipmen graduated at a higher rate than direct-entry midshipmen...")
Click to expand...
Excellent documents, loved reading them, thanks. Here is what I surmised:

Based on the provided documents, it appears the Class of 2023 (C/O 2023) at the Naval Academy was negatively impacted by COVID-19. While the overall graduation rate remained above the required threshold, the information regarding NAPS candidates initially raised concerns.

However, the report also highlights the significant disruption to varsity athletes' competitive seasons during their first two years at the Academy. Additionally, changes to NCAA transfer portal rules might have contributed to an increased number of recruited athletes resigning from the Academy. I believe about 50% of NAPSters are varsity athletes. CaptMJ? or others?

To gain a clearer understanding of the impact on NAPS candidates specifically, it would be valuable to analyze the graduation rate excluding varsity athletes for the C/O 2024. This would help determine if the combined effects of COVID-19 and the new transfer portal rules disproportionately affected NAPS candidates in the C/O 2023.

Further analysis, isolating NAPS candidates from the overall data, could provide more conclusive insights for future considerations. The lower NAPS graduation rates year-to-year could be attributed to their more diverse demographic profile, including priors from the Fleet and Marines, a higher percentage of minorities, and a greater focus on recruited athletes. Being a much smaller population (typically the NAPS incoming class is about 200) there is more sensitivity to variability within the population when compared with approximately 1,000 directs on I-Doc day.

Another interesting analysis could explore potential differences in performance and retention rates between NAPS and direct commission officers.
 
mols.cast8 said:
Thanks for the advice-idk I guess in some way my parents feel disappointed in me just bc my brother was first in his class at the academy last year, and my sister got the principal NROTC scholarship bc of her academic success. I guess in a way I feel like I’m letting them down. I haven’t talked to my parents about it, but I was planning on doing that soon. I also come from one of the best schools in my state, where just about everyone goes to top colleges and universities in the country. I guess in a way, if I did choose to go to prep, my school would look down on me. Maybe prep is exactly what I need. We will see, though. And in time I will probably get my head out of the gutter.
Click to expand...
You have spent several days now bemoaning the fact you got Foundation. Could you get pulled direct, maybe? The chances are extremely low. Don’t count on it. There is no getting on their radar. You have even stated your STEM grades aren’t great. You want to make your time at USNA better? Great, go Foundation and build up your study habits and STEM knowledge. It will only help you to be a better Mid and not struggle through the experience as much. Great, your brother is smart and did well academically. But, you aren’t him. Very few kids graduate college in 4. Your high school friends won’t understand and that is fine. If you want to attend USNA stop whining, accept Foundation, focus on picking the right school for you, and start working on the PRT. Every point you make is about perception. The goal of USNA is to produce Naval Officer and not once have you mentioned how an extra year will help create a more mature, well prepared Officer ready to lead Sailors. The extra year does a great deal of good for maturing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top