GPA / Test scores and prep appointments

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pedromom

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Oct 14, 2019
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I’m just curious, can anyone explain to me why students who have relatively low standardized test scores get into prep yet those with higher than average standardized scores don’t get into prep? I’m seeing people post their kids with 25 or 27 ACTs getting prep and my kid has a 32. Isn’t it easier to better ones CFA score than raise test scores?

Also, how can someone have a 4.0 gpa with a 25 or so ACT. Is anyone recognizing grade inflation? My friend is a teacher for LAUSD and she told me without a doubt a 4.0 at her school is probably a 3.0 at my sons school.

UGH it’s just all so frustrating.
 
pedromom said:
I’m just curious, can anyone explain to me why students who have relatively low standardized test scores get into prep yet those with higher than average standardized scores don’t get into prep? I’m seeing people post their kids with 25 or 27 ACTs getting prep and my kid has a 32. Isn’t it easier to better ones CFA score than raise test scores?

Also, how can someone have a 4.0 gpa with a 25 or so ACT. Is anyone recognizing grade inflation? My friend is a teacher for LAUSD and she told me without a doubt a 4.0 at her school is probably a 3.0 at my sons school.

UGH it’s just all so frustrating.
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I believe you are misinformed .... There is one young lady at NAPS right now, near and dear to us, who graduated HS last year with a 3.7 gpa and 1380 SAT (taken 1 time). She spent countless hours of her life refining her skills on the Piano and Cello. She can warm my heart with Chopin’s waltz in A-minor, my personal fav.

She has never worked so hard than at NAPS. I hope she gets picked for the USNA class of 2024. But I only know of 2 guarantees in life.
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The SAs pick well rounded kids to attend their Prep schools. These kids are all over the spectrum.
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pedromom said:
I’m just curious, can anyone explain to me why students who have relatively low standardized test scores get into prep yet those with higher than average standardized scores don’t get into prep? I’m seeing people post their kids with 25 or 27 ACTs getting prep and my kid has a 32. Isn’t it easier to better ones CFA score than raise test scores?

Also, how can someone have a 4.0 gpa with a 25 or so ACT. Is anyone recognizing grade inflation? My friend is a teacher for LAUSD and she told me without a doubt a 4.0 at her school is probably a 3.0 at my sons school.

UGH it’s just all so frustrating.
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I'm right there with you on this, you are not misinformed! My son has also been passed over in favor of individuals with lesser scores. Head scratcher for sure.
 
Dr. Strange Love said:
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I believe you are misinformed .... There is one young lady at NAPS right now, near and dear to us, who graduated HS last year with a 3.7 gpa and 1380 SAT (taken 1 time).

She has never worked so hard than at NAPS. I hope she gets picked for the USNA class of 2024. But I only know of 2 guarantees in life.
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I’m sorry...what is it I am misinformed on? My son got a 1430 SAT on first try....but didn’t get prep. Please, I would seriously love to know what I’m misunderstanding.
 
rsw1177 said:
I'm right there with you on this, you are not misinformed! My son has also been passed over in favor of individuals with lesser scores. Head scratcher for sure.
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So sorry. Misery does not like company in this case. Best wishes to your son. As my Dad used to tell me “the sooner you realize life isn’t fair the better off you will be” I think this is one of those cases!
 
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It is possible that your son was not a good fit for Prep. Our daughter is great pianist, who needs a little help polishing her oopsy tendencies in math and science. It is what it is. She spent most of her young life at a piano and cello, just like her mother. A decent SAT score isn’t everything ... and for god’s sake, taking the tests over and over to eek out that little bit is, well .... you know.
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I think your son or daughter should reapply if they really want it. There are sticky’s here on this forum on the best way of going about that.
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pedromom said:
I’m just curious, can anyone explain to me why students who have relatively low standardized test scores get into prep yet those with higher than average standardized scores don’t get into prep? I’m seeing people post their kids with 25 or 27 ACTs getting prep and my kid has a 32. Isn’t it easier to better ones CFA score than raise test scores?

Also, how can someone have a 4.0 gpa with a 25 or so ACT. Is anyone recognizing grade inflation? My friend is a teacher for LAUSD and she told me without a doubt a 4.0 at her school is probably a 3.0 at my sons school.

UGH it’s just all so frustrating.
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I have a 4.0 GPA( I take Honors, Dual Enrollment, and Dual Credit classes... and no my high school does not offer AP or IB courses). I also took the ACT 9 times, and the SAT 2 times. My highest on the SAT is 1100. My Highest on the ACT is a 26 Composite; 28 Superscore;9 essay. The academies are WCS( Whole Candidate Score). It is not just about the CFA, and the Academics.... it is everything.
No, I have not gotten a Prep School offer but I have not gotten denied by the Academy yet ethier.
Some candidates are just not good test takers or their scores are all good but one subdicion and that is what keeps their overall score low( mine is math at a 23 ACT).

Through interviews, recommendations, and the WCS I feel the Admissions department sees what potential someone has and the determination one may have and not just through their smarts.

It isn't just bettering a CFA score or Academics.... you cannot better instantly better skills, motivation, etc... It is not as simple as bettering a numbered score on a application.

For the Grade inflation: I have worked my butt off to have the grades I have. I do not take easy classes, I actually take college courses and other honors high school classes. On top of ALL the activities, sports, and community service I do. Like I said before, Some people are bad test takers and I personally do not think my ACT scores show my ability. I even drove 3 hours, 3 times a week for a few months for ACT tutoring equally over 125 hours of classes. Even after that, I still did not take the test well when at tutoring I was in the books that were more advanced than the ACT.
 
I had a 32 ACT, 3.7 GPA and I got into a prep school. It isn't entirely based on the numbers on the page. People with perfect ACT/SATs can and do get rejected from the academies. Academics are only a piece of the application, and admissions looks for a lot more than just good test scores.
 
WishfulThinking said:
I have a 4.0 GPA( I take Honors, Dual Enrollment, and Dual Credit classes... and no my high school does not offer AP or IB courses). I also took the ACT 9 times, and the SAT 2 times. My highest on the SAT is 1100. My Highest on the ACT is a 26 Composite; 28 Superscore;9 essay. The academies are WCS( Whole Candidate Score). It is not just about the CFA, and the Academics.... it is everything.
No, I have not gotten a Prep School offer but I have not gotten denied by the Academy yet ethier.
Some candidates are just not good test takers or their scores are all good but one subdicion and that is what keeps their overall score low( mine is math at a 23 ACT).

Through interviews, recommendations, and the WCS I feel the Admissions department sees what potential someone has and the determination one may have and not just through their smarts.

It isn't just bettering a CFA score or Academics.... you cannot better instantly better skills, motivation, etc... It is not as simple as bettering a numbered score on a application.

For the Grade inflation: I have worked my butt off to have the grades I have. I do not take easy classes, I actually take college courses and other honors high school classes. On top of ALL the activities, sports, and community service I do. Like I said before, Some people are bad test takers and I personally do not think my ACT scores show my ability. I even drove 3 hours, 3 times a week for a few months for ACT tutoring equally over 125 hours of classes. Even after that, I still did not take the test well when at tutoring I was in the books that were more advanced than the ACT.
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Agreed but there is grade inflation my teacher friends have told me and I suspect they would know. My kids school is no. 35 in the entire state of California Gtd it’s harder than an LAUSD school to get a 4.0. As soon as we all admit there are some serious brownie points that go to some (just ask the Asian kids who sued Harvard) the more honest the process will be. Clearly it’s not just test scores however when you are extremely well rounded plus have the scores and you don’t get it....it is frustrating to see the 27ers getting prep....that’s all I’m saying.
 
Dr. Strange Love said:
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It is possible that your son was not a good fit for Prep. Our daughter is great pianist, who needs a little help polishing her oopsy tendencies in math and science. It is what it is. She spent most of her young life at a piano and cello, just like her mother. A decent SAT score isn’t everything ... and for god’s sake, taking the tests over and over to eek out that little bit is, well .... you know.
.
I think your son or daughter should reapply if they really want it. There are sticky’s here on this forum on the best way of going about that.
.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with you retaking the tests over and over is kind of sad. Mine did take ACT twice and was happy with the 32 and was done. I love that your daughter is a great musician but how does that help in leading a unit...you see that’s the part I’m a little fuzzy on. Does being an amazing musician show dedication...absolutely.
 
Most of the applicants to the SAs are high achievers. One thing I have learned about the military in general (Including the SA admission boards, ROTC Scholarship Boards..)is that THEY know what they are looking for. We are merely speculating on why one candidate was selected vs another. Is it fair, probably not, but at the end of the day - The SAs/ROTC get the candidates that they are looking for. This is the reason why it is difficult to compare one candidate to another. I also think it in unfair of you (@pedromom ) to question anyone's ability to lead a unit based on what is posted in this forum. Sorry that your DS/DD did not get selected - stop comparing his/her situation to anyone else. They were selected for a reason and your DS/DD was not - fair or not - It is what it is!
 
Jackflerp said:
I had a 32 ACT, 3.7 GPA and I got into a prep school. It isn't entirely based on the numbers on the page. People with perfect ACT/SATs can and do get rejected from the academies. Academics are only a piece of the application, and admissions looks for a lot more than just good test scores.
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Yes, I know that. But when you are an extremely well rounded kid with a ton of leadership experience, Eagle Scout, boys state, engineering internship at a major aerospace co.,
EEBTTF said:
Most of the applicants to the SAs are high achievers. One thing I have learned about the military in general (Including the SA admission boards, ROTC Scholarship Boards..)is that THEY know what they are looking for. We are merely speculating on why one candidate was selected vs another. Is it fair, probably not, but at the end of the day - The SAs/ROTC get the candidates that they are looking for. This is the reason why it is difficult to compare one candidate to another. I also think it in unfair of you (@pedromom ) to question anyone's ability to lead a unit based on what is posted in this forum. Sorry that your DS/DD did not get selected - stop comparing his/her situation to anyone else. They were selected for a reason and your DS/DD was not - fair or not - It is what it is!
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Touche!
team captain multitude of awards, etc etc and you have the scores...as the gentleman said previously...it’s a head scratcher.
 
pedromom said:
Totally agree with you retaking the tests over and over is kind of sad. Mine did take ACT twice and was happy with the 32 and was done. I love that your daughter is a great musician but how does that help in leading a unit...you see that’s the part I’m a little fuzzy on. Does being an amazing musician show dedication...absolutely.
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She was also in NJROTC all 4 years in HS .... and unit lead positions last 2 years. Multiple sport as well. Backup church pianist right along side my wife. My wife has a record of 20 years playing piano there, and aiding the community. My daughter would back her up at piano. And from an early age through HS, my wife would drag her around to all kinds of community outreach including entertainment at all the retirement and nursing homes throughout the area.

Always a busy giving kid.

And yes, it is a head scratcher what the formula weights, and what it doesn’t weigh.
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Dr. Strange Love said:
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She was also in NJROTC all 4 years in HS .... and unit lead positions last 2 years. Multiple sport as well. Backup church pianist right along side my wife. My wife has a record of 20 years playing piano there, and aiding the community. My daughter would back her up at piano, and my wife would drag her around to all kinds of community outreach including entertainment at all the retirement and nursing homes throughout the area.

Always a busy giving kid.
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She sounds amazing. Congratulations to you! Sorry for coming across insensitive.
 
pedromom said:
Yes, I know that. But when you are an extremely well rounded kid with a ton of leadership experience, Eagle Scout, boys state, engineering internship at a major aerospace co.,

Touche!
team captain multitude of awards, etc etc and you have the scores...as the gentleman said previously...it’s a head scratcher.
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My intent is not to debate the qualifications of your child. I am sure he/she is a scholar, multi-sport athlete, captain of sports teams, 100s of hours of leadership - guess what - most everyone else that applied was too. You want an answer as to why your child was not given a slot at a SA or a SA Prep school. The only thing that is not debatable is that there was something in his/her package that did not warrant a selection. As I said earlier, there are a few people that can tell you why he/she was not selected and I'm pretty sure none of them are posting on this forum. Head scratcher...perhaps - it happens thousands of times each year to excellent candidates.
 
pedromom said:
I love that your daughter is a great musician but how does that help in leading a unit...you see that’s the part I’m a little fuzzy on.
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pedromom said:
Clearly it’s not just test scores however when you are extremely well rounded plus have the scores and you don’t get it....it is frustrating to see the 27ers getting prep....that’s all I’m saying.
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With all due respect, these comments reek of sour grapes. Hopefully the poster will rethink all this with the benefit of a good night's sleep.

The measuring stick is called the WCS, with emphasis on "whole." Academics is the largest share of the score, to be sure, but it's only one part. If someone got Prep with lower scores than another, it's because USNA felt that candidate's "whole" potential was greater. And that this candidate would benefit from a bit more academic seasoning. You may be disappointed -- even bitter -- but that's no reason to denigrate another's record, especially when you don't see the "whole" picture.

By the way, GPA is not the focus -- exactly for the reasons stated by other posters. Not all schools treat it the same and inflation is rampant. Admissions examines the whole (there's that word again) transcript and compares it in context to the school's profile. That's a major way of adjusting for quality of school and grade inflation.

As for the musician, pretty sure she didn't receive offer of appointment for her musical skills. No, she surely got in because it showed an ability to succeed across multiple dimensions, to juggle competing priorities, to excel amid many demands.

A very well respected SA admissions consultant (a USAFA grad who gave us pro bono advice but had no room to take us on as a client) said it best: "SAs are looking for potentially great commissioned officers. The best way to show them you are one is to be successful with challenging endeavors under stressful conditions. Take on more than you can handle and find a way. Above all, know that the SAs want leaders -- people who have made an impact."

So yes, academics are hugely important. But interesting that this consultant didn't mention it in his carefully worded summary
 
EEBTTF said:
My intent is not to debate the qualifications of your child. I am sure he/she is a scholar, multi-sport athlete, captain of sports teams, 100s of hours of leadership - guess what - most everyone else that applied was too. You want an answer as to why your child was not given a slot at a SA or a SA Prep school. The only thing that is not debatable is that there was something in his/her package that did not warrant a selection. As I said earlier, there are a few people that can tell you why he/she was not selected and I'm pretty sure none of them are posting on this forum. Head scratcher...perhaps - it happens thousands of times each year to excellent candidates.
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Yep, you are correct and the fact of the matter is when one door closes another one opens...just have to walk through the threshold!
 
pedromom said:
Yes, I know that. But when you are an extremely well rounded kid with a ton of leadership experience, Eagle Scout, boys state, engineering internship at a major aerospace co.,
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My resume was pretty similar. I struggled in math, and did not take Calculus in high school. I was sent to prep because of this. Prep school is designed for capable candidates who have a weakness in an area or two. If you think your kid did not have a weakness, then obviously he/she would not be a candidate for a prep school. Some of the smartest people I have ever met are in my prep class, and just about everyone has a resume competitive with your child's. It isn't just for the "27ers." The next academy class can only be so big, and not everyone who thinks they should get in actually do.
 
MidCakePa said:
With all due respect, these comments reek of sour grapes. Hopefully the poster will rethink all this with the benefit of a good night's sleep.

The measuring stick is called the WCS, with emphasis on "whole." Academics is the largest share of the score, to be sure, but it's only one part. If someone got Prep with lower scores than another, it's because USNA felt that candidate's "whole" potential was greater. And that this candidate would benefit from a bit more academic seasoning. You may be disappointed -- even bitter -- but that's no reason to denigrate another's record, especially when you don't see the "whole" picture.

By the way, GPA is not the focus -- exactly for the reasons stated by other posters. Not all schools treat it the same and inflation is rampant. Admissions examines the whole (there's that word again) transcript and compares it in context to the school's profile. That's a major way of adjusting for quality of school and grade inflation.

As for the musician, pretty sure she didn't receive offer of appointment for her musical skills. No, she surely got in because it showed an ability to succeed across multiple dimensions, to juggle competing priorities, to excel amid many demands.

A very well respected SA admissions consultant (a USAFA grad who gave us pro bono advice but had no room to take us on as a client) said it best: "SAs are looking for potentially great commissioned officers. The best way to show them you are one is to be successful with challenging endeavors under stressful conditions. Take on more than you can handle and find a way. Above all, know that the SAs want leaders -- people who have made an impact."

So yes, academics are hugely important. But interesting that this consultant didn't mention it in his carefully worded summary
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Yes I apologized for being insensitive, my comment, I concur was in poor taste!
 
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