GPA / Test scores and prep appointments

I’m just curious, can anyone explain to me why students who have relatively low standardized test scores get into prep yet those with higher than average standardized scores don’t get into prep? I’m seeing people post their kids with 25 or 27 ACTs getting prep and my kid has a 32. Isn’t it easier to better ones CFA score than raise test scores?

Also, how can someone have a 4.0 gpa with a 25 or so ACT. Is anyone recognizing grade inflation? My friend is a teacher for LAUSD and she told me without a doubt a 4.0 at her school is probably a 3.0 at my sons school.

UGH it’s just all so frustrating.
First we have to understand what the prep school is for. The prep school is in no way a sort of reserve or holding spot for kids the academy didn’t have space for. That’s more of what the falcon scholarship is for. The prep school is to help kids who need help in one or more areas in their application, but otherwise would make amazing cadets. This could be low CFA scores and good everything else, good physical and gpa but low test scores, low test scores but great physical and gpa, or really any sort of combination of those/leadership. It is to help candidates who need a little extra help and prior enlisted who need to get back into the swing of school. There’s no need to attack candidates with lower scores and the academies will do whatever they want in the end. All we can do is wait and congratulate those who were selected.
 
I too know of an amazing young lady who is attending NAPS this year. My DD played 3 sports, was a team captain, coached youth basketball and graduated with High Honors from a very prestigious private school in our area. She needed a bit more work in math. Please understand that Prep School is not the faint of heart. It is difficult and challenging not just academically but mentally as well. These kids are working hard to prove themselves worthy of their appointment to USNA. It really does bother me that people treat Prep School students as “Less Than”. Our kids are all exceptional in their own right or the Navy would not see fit to spend the additional money to prepare them for USNA.
 
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I too know of an amazing young lady who is attending NAPS this year. My DD played 3 sports, was a team captain, coached youth basketball and graduated with High Honors from a very prestigious private school in our area. She needed a bit more work in math. Please understand that Prep School is not the faint of heart. It is difficult and challenging not just academically but mentally as well. These kids are working hard to prove themselves worthy of their appointment to USNA. It really does bother me that people treat Prep School students as “Less Than”. Our kids are all exceptional in their own right or the Navy would not see fit to spend the additional money to prepare them for USNA.
My cousin has been an officer in navy for going on 25 years, a stellar career he’s had...he wouldn’t have traded his year of prep for anything. Congrats to your daughter,
 
FWIW, at NWP last year, we had the USAFA Prep School come visit and the number one question the free agents had was why we didn't get prep slots.

As it turns out, for USAFA anyway, admissions divides candidates into three groups for consideration: direct appointments, Falcon scholarships, and prep school. USAFA looks at the WCS scores of candidates and has different ranges for each group, in the order of DA, Falcon, and the Prep.

Many students were told that they scored too high to be considered for a prep school slot, but were beat out in their districts and/or the national waiting list. There's a fine grey line of overlap that some candidates fall into. They advised us that admissions felt we did not need what the prep school was offering. Instead, it would be more beneficial for us to take "some more advanced college classes rather than to be stuck in a remedial algebra class at USAFA Prep" (their words) and that we would be much better prepared as a result.

You also need to remember that a large majority of USAFA Prep School is reserved for priors that need some extra brushing up in academics. I believe they said around the same number of candidates get Falcons and Prep slots: 60-70 for each. This is for USAFA Prep, no idea how the other prep schools operate.
 
@pedromom - one more thing. A large percentage of SA admits (I think in the 20% range) have at least 1 year of college under their belts. If your DSs goal is to go to a SA - there are still many pathways to get there. Perseverance. Best of luck to your DS, I appreciate his desire to serve our great country!
FWIW, at NWP last year, we had the USAFA Prep School come visit and the number one question the free agents had was why we didn't get prep slots.

As it turns out, for USAFA anyway, admissions divides candidates into three groups for consideration: direct appointments, Falcon scholarships, and prep school. USAFA looks at the WCS scores of candidates and has different ranges for each group, in the order of DA, Falcon, and the Prep.

Many students were told that they scored too high to be considered for a prep school slot, but were beat out in their districts and/or the national waiting list. There's a fine grey line of overlap that some candidates fall into. They advised us that admissions felt we did not need what the prep school was offering. Instead, it would be more beneficial for us to take "some more advanced college classes rather than to be stuck in a remedial algebra class at USAFA Prep" (their words) and that we would be much better prepared as a result.

You also need to remember that a large majority of USAFA Prep School is reserved for priors that need some extra brushing up in academics. I believe they said around the same number of candidates get Falcons and Prep slots: 60-70 for each. This is for USAFA Prep, no idea how the other prep schools operate.
Thanks, this is exactly the information I was looking for! He is considering NWP....your thoughts? He is not AFA but rather looking for USCGA or USMA. Money is an issue now due to shutdown, previously would have been a no brainer to self prep but now struggling with that option.
 
He is considering NWP....your thoughts? He is not AFA but rather looking for USCGA or USMA. Money is an issue now due to shutdown, previously would have been a no brainer to self prep but now struggling with that option.

Personally, I wouldn't have traded my time up on the mountain for anything. Even if I didn't earn an appointment this year, I still would have had no regrets (though I'm very happy I did, obviously :D). I looked into several prep programs, mainly MMI and NWP, but when I looked into both programs, I felt NWP would help me strengthen my application AND better prepare me for success at USAFA. there's a strong emphasis on teamwork, attention to detail, and discipline from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to sleep. You'll learn how to memorize quickly and efficiently, how to time manage every moment of your day, and how to truly learn material, not memorize just enough to pass a test. NWP taught me life skills that will help me no matter where I go.

In terms of the financial aspect, I completely understand your concern. NWP does offer a small scholarship (I think mine was just under $2,500) which brought the cost down a little. I picked up a summer job to help cover the cost but I'm not sure that will be possible in the current climate. I know that MMI can be more generous with financial aid so you can definitely contact them about it if you are interested.

Feel free to message me if you have any specific questions about NWP.
 
My resume was pretty similar. I struggled in math, and did not take Calculus in high school. I was sent to prep because of this. Prep school is designed for capable candidates who have a weakness in an area or two. If you think your kid did not have a weakness, then obviously he/she would not be a candidate for a prep school. Some of the smartest people I have ever met are in my prep class, and just about everyone has a resume competitive with your child's. It isn't just for the "27ers." The next academy class can only be so big, and not everyone who thinks they should get in actually do.
If you do not mind sharing what were you test scores?
 
The guidance from Admissions is typically that a strong candidate should attend a four year college and do well. They really do not recommend self-prep unless the candidate needs to improve in certain areas. Anyone in this position should reach out to admissions and ask for direct feedback on what they need to improve. We here stories about success with self prep but most of those individuals would have been just as successful after a year of college. I can tell you just as many stories about kids who went to a four year college and were successful as a re-applicant.

There are basically three groups of individuals at the Prep school; soldiers, recruited athletes, and individuals who need improvement in one of the areas. (the recruited athletes also usually need academic help to get them ready for the rigor of college studies) Typically this is academics but could be for any of the categories. I can only speak for USMA here, but an applicant has to be deemed disqualified in an area to be considered for prep. USMA typically uses the sponsored civilian prep as the holding place for strong candidates that just miss for some reason.

The bottom end of grades and test scores may be a little subjective in terms of qualified/disqualified but scores around the average are not.
 
The guidance from Admissions is typically that a strong candidate should attend a four year college and do well. They really do not recommend self-prep unless the candidate needs to improve in certain areas. Anyone in this position should reach out to admissions and ask for direct feedback on what they need to improve. We here stories about success with self prep but most of those individuals would have been just as successful after a year of college. I can tell you just as many stories about kids who went to a four year college and were successful as a re-applicant.

There are basically three groups of individuals at the Prep school; soldiers, recruited athletes, and individuals who need improvement in one of the areas. (the recruited athletes also usually need academic help to get them ready for the rigor of college studies) Typically this is academics but could be for any of the categories. I can only speak for USMA here, but an applicant has to be deemed disqualified in an area to be considered for prep. USMA typically uses the sponsored civilian prep as the holding place for strong candidates that just miss for some reason.

The bottom end of grades and test scores may be a little subjective in terms of qualified/disqualified but scores around the average are not.
This whole qualified not qualified thing confuses me a bit. How does one know If they are or not? My son was told by USMA that he needed to improve his CFA Score. I would have thought that this is an easier thing to do than raise ones academics or test scores and would make him a good prep candidate. I guess that was what I found most perplexing. As far as the prep school goes my dad always used to say “soar with the eagles” in other words if you surround yourself with others who have similar goals and ambition they help to “lift you up”...at least I think that is what he meant!
 
This whole qualified not qualified thing confuses me a bit. How does one know If they are or not? My son was told by USMA that he needed to improve his CFA Score. I would have thought that this is an easier thing to do than raise ones academics or test scores and would make him a good prep candidate. I guess that was what I found most perplexing. As far as the prep school goes my dad always used to say “soar with the eagles” in other words if you surround yourself with others who have similar goals and ambition they help to “lift you up”...at least I think that is what he meant!
Applicants for all the SAs are considered 3Q, or triple qualified, once they are deemed physically, medically, and academically qualified for the academy. To my knowledge, USAFA does not inform applicants when they are 3Q, but the other academies do.
 
Applicants for all the SAs are considered 3Q, or triple qualified, once they are deemed physically, medically, and academically qualified for the academy. To my knowledge, USAFA does not inform applicants when they are 3Q, but the other academies do.
USNA does not. There may be the occasional BGO who tells a candidate, though there is apparently guidance to them not to do it.
 
pedromom said:
...As soon as we all admit there are some serious brownie points that go to some (just ask the Asian kids who sued Harvard) the more honest the process will be...
There aren't many things on these forums that shock me, but wow.

pedromom said:
...it is frustrating to see the 27ers getting prep....that’s all I’m saying.
But that's exactly what NAPS is for.

"The ten-month course of instruction at NAPS, lasting from August through May, emphasizes preparation in English Composition, Mathematics, Chemistry, Physics, and Information Technology."
 
This whole qualified not qualified thing confuses me a bit. How does one know If they are or not? My son was told by USMA that he needed to improve his CFA Score. I would have thought that this is an easier thing to do than raise ones academics or test scores and would make him a good prep candidate. I guess that was what I found most perplexing. As far as the prep school goes my dad always used to say “soar with the eagles” in other words if you surround yourself with others who have similar goals and ambition they help to “lift you up”...at least I think that is what he meant!

The purpose of a prep school is academic improvement, not to help with a CFA score. Even given the stats for your son that you posted in the first post he would not get an appointment if he didn’t do well on the CFA. It’s a part of the WCS that he has a lot of control over, and if he fails to make an acceptable score then that is on him. Also, as was mentioned before, even with the best stats a poor interview can get an application flagged. The whole person concept means that it is much more than stats that get people into the Academies.

Stealth_81
 
The purpose of a prep school is academic improvement, not to help with a CFA score. Even given the stats for your son that you posted in the first post he would not get an appointment if he didn’t do well on the CFA. It’s a part of the WCS that he has a lot of control over, and if he fails to make an acceptable score then that is on him. Also, as was mentioned before, even with the best stats a poor interview can get an application flagged. The whole person concept means that it is much more than stats that get people into the Academies.

Stealth_81
There aren't many things on these forums that shock me, but wow.


But that's exactly what NAPS is for.

"The ten-month course of instruction at NAPS, lasting from August through May, emphasizes preparation in English Composition, Mathematics, Chemistry, Physics, and Information Technology."
There aren't many things on these forums that shock me, but wow.


But that's exactly what NAPS is for.

"The ten-month course of instruction at NAPS, lasting from August through May, emphasizes preparation in English Composition, Mathematics, Chemistry, Physics, and Information Technology."
Would you have been shocked if the Coast Guard recruiter, when speaking of CGA at least, told you “if you are a female, a minority or a first gen you have a distinct advantage over a white male.” The recruiter who told me this was not some bigot and in fact was a member of a minority race himself. He said he personally did not feel it was fair but he wanted to be honest. The Asian kids who sued Harvard did so because academically speaking they had done what it takes to get into the best school (Harvard) but they were at a disadvantage due to their race, that was the reason for their suit. It was proven that while their case was true, it was also deemed okay and they lost the lawsuit. It was a huge case in higher ed.
As my Dad used to say “the sooner you realize life is not fair the better off you will be” this is of course true and always has been. I just wish there was greater transparency in higher ed in general.
 
Would you have been shocked if the Coast Guard recruiter, when speaking of CGA at least, told you “if you are a female, a minority or a first gen you have a distinct advantage over a white male.” The recruiter who told me this was not some bigot and in fact was a member of a minority race himself. He said he personally did not feel it was fair but he wanted to be honest. The Asian kids who sued Harvard did so because academically speaking they had done what it takes to get into the best school (Harvard) but they were at a disadvantage due to their race, that was the reason for their suit. It was proven that while their case was true, it was also deemed okay and they lost the lawsuit. It was a huge case in higher ed.
As my Dad used to say “the sooner you realize life is not fair the better off you will be” this is of course true and always has been. I just wish there was greater transparency in higher ed in general.

I am really not sure where you are going with this. The posts that you quoted point out what the purpose of the prep school is and is not. You said above that USMA told your son that he didn't get an appointment because his CFA was low. There is nothing at a prep school to fix that. Prep schools are to help academically and your son's academics do not need help. So, regardless of who his competition is for an appointment (you seem to be blaming some sort of quota system), he would not get an appointment because he failed the CFA. As I said, that is completely on him and no one else can be blamed for that.

You have your answer why he didn't get an appointment. You have your answer why he didn't get a prep school spot. He needs to regroup and decide how he is going to tackle the re-application process. It will be his dedication to that plan that determines his future.

Stealth_81
 
I’m just curious, can anyone explain to me why students who have relatively low standardized test scores get into prep yet those with higher than average standardized scores don’t get into prep? I’m seeing people post their kids with 25 or 27 ACTs getting prep and my kid has a 32. Isn’t it easier to better ones CFA score than raise test scores?
UGH it’s just all so frustrating.
Test scores aren't everything and it's laughable to think that just because your child has a 1480, you think he/she might be better than one with a 1170. West Point stresses the whole person candidacy, and that one with a 1170 might have the better all around approach comparative to the one with a 1480. Test scores are just that, and take no consideration to the whole person values, CFA, demographics based on race, poverty levels, extracurricular activities and leadership potential. Perhaps take a look at what your child can improve on his app in his extracurriculars, leadership potential, and aerobic performance than demonize a student who doesn't perform well on a test that study after study show is based on affluency.
 
@pedromom, you seem determined to chalk all this up to "fairness," as if the world is out to get your kid by denying them something that's rightfully theirs.

Here's the problem with the Harvard example and the Asian lawsuit. Harvard does not purport to rack and stack candidates according to simple numbers, and then pluck the first few thousand from the top. That's not their MO at all. Instead, they clearly state their desire to build a well-rounded class with a breadth of talents, interests and accomplishments. That's not to be interpreted that each student is well rounded, but the sum of the parts is well rounded. Which means there's room for the 1120 GPA world-class cellist, the 3.5 GPA hoops phenom, and the future Rhodes Scholar klutz introvert. Yes, they exist at Harvard and every other top 20 school on USN's vaunted list. The Asian suit was filed under the false premise that Harvard somehow made a promise to high-school kids to simply rank according to certain numbers and admit from the top down. Harvard owes no one anything.

In the same vein, the SAs set out to build a class of potential outstanding officers. Not scholars or athletes of extracurricular studs, but officers. And as with Harvard, and pretty much any highly reputed university, at no point is there a rack-and-stack system. Is it fair? It is to the schools. Is it fair to the applicants? Well, fair enough that they buy into it -- enough to apply and gladly accept the offers that come their way.

Ask yourself this: If you found out your kid got in ahead of another one with significantly superior SAT and GPA, would you tell your kid to surrender their spot to the other one because that would be "fair"? Didn't think so.
 
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