Grad school, and other inquiries

[Tennis0102]

Hello all, I've been looking a lot into career paths in the Air Force, and am very intrigued by many of them. However, my understanding of the path to become a physician is cloudy and I was hoping that a military physician or someone who knows a military physician could help me with some questions. Please feel free to respond to any question you can!!

1. When becoming a doctor after the AFA how much say do you have in what type of doctor you wish to become. Is it something that you have general control over and can decide, or do you have to fill out a wishlist and the Air Force might need you to become an orthopedics or whatever they need at that time.
2. How is life as an Air Force physician different than other career paths in the Air Force. Specifically are physicians tended to be deployed or moved to other bases more or less often. Do they typically work longer hours? The concern here is that since the commitment is much longer if you are becoming a physician, and since being a physician is typically a very time demanding profession, I would imagine that starting a family is very challenging, and I was hoping someone could provide some input.
3. I understand that if you are allowed to apply to medical school from a SA it is typically through HPSP, however are there other scholarships that you can get for medical school. For engineering for example, I know of scholarships that are offered from specific universities for engineering masters degrees to academy graduates. Additionally, if you are allowed to apply for medical school and get in, can you decline HPSP and personally fund your medical school to lower your ADSO.

 

[BossIsland0]

Quick note: I am not an academy graduate; I am a HS senior. Feel free to correct anything I say that is wrong. I have, however, spent weeks looking into doing active duty infantry before attending medical school and have talked to multiple graduates who have done the same or at least have gone to medical school; I just want to help.

You may want to change the title to “Medical School Questions.” Graduate school is a slightly different subject.

As for being a physician straight out of AFA, it’s going to be hard. The academies are designed to produce active duty, combat arms (at least for USMA) officers.

Concerning how you plan to pay for medical school, I don’t believe that you can simply fund it yourself. When you graduate from an academy, you are obligated to serve 5 years on active duty (preferably as soon as possible). The HPSP scholarship or USUHS provide a sort of loophole (I’ll get to that in a second), where you remain an officer (2LT in the reserves) while attending medical school. What is expected in return is another 4 years of active duty (no longer such a “loophole”). The reason you can’t go without HPSP or attending the USUHS is because you will still carry your initial 5-year ADSO from the academy, keeping you from attending medical school without the military’s aid.

If your plan is to be only a doctor without the extra ADSO, I would advise you pursue ROTC. You can commission into the reserves, pay for your own medical school, and leave the reserves once your time is up. On top of that, AROTC seems to be the most generous of the branches with granting educational delays for those who want to go to medical school.

Just my perspective. It’s possible to go to medical school straight out of the academy, but to skip the extra service obligation is rare.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

1. Type of doctor depends on the needs of the service. My DW is Army so I’m not 100% sure but I think the Air Force tends to track more of their graduates as general doctors without a residency. This does NOT mean you can’t get a residency later on, even after you get out. I’ve known docs who did this. Heck, I’ve known docs who did more than one residency.
2. The hours you work as a military doctor tend to parallel what you see in the civilian world. As an orthopedic surgeon my wife’s hours are generally 0600-1800. She does pull call but it’s unusual that she actually has to go in. Usually it’s talking to an ER doc on the phone and setting up a consult for the next day. The exception is deployments. Docs usually only deploy for 6 months as a deployment that’s any longer will tend to hurt their skill set. Still, you can spend six months at a remote site in Iraqistan.
3. Going to medical school. Yes, there are few slots out of the SA’s, usually about 10/year for each SA (I’m not including USCGA or MMA).
However, not getting a medical school slot out of a SA doesn’t mean you can’t go to medical school. I know many docs who were something else first- pilots, Armor, infantry... you name it. Heck, my DW was a major when she was selected for medical school.
Generally, if you’re accepted to a medical school in this situation the military will pay for it.
As my DW likes to tell applicants to the medical school program, once you become a doctor that’s about it. But you can always go do something else and then become a doctor.

 

[Tennis0102]

Thank you so much for your insight, this was very informative and helpful!

 

[UHBlackhawk]

BTW, I would add that in my years I’ve never come across a “non traditional doc” who regretted doing something else first. But I’ve come across many “traditional docs” who envy the things “non traditional” docs have accomplished with their lives.
I guess it goes to show you. Life is a marathon, not the sprint you think it is when you’re a teen.

 

[OldRetSWO]

2. The hours you work as a military doctor tend to parallel what you see in the civilian world. As an orthopedic surgeon my wife’s hours are generally 0600-1800. She does pull call but it’s unusual that she actually has to go in. Usually it’s talking to an ER doc on the phone and setting up a consult for the next day. The exception is deployments. Docs usually only deploy for 6 months as a deployment that’s any longer will tend to hurt their skill set. Still, you can spend six months at a remote site in Iraqistan.

For the Navy, workload depends on where you are in the Sea/Shore rotation. When assigned to shore duty - often at a Naval Hospital or Clinic, your workload is probably similar to most other medical professionals and generally not different to what was described above. On the other hand, when assigned to a ship it can be very different and the doc can probably catch up on their professional reading or whatever. I served on two ships with assigned docs and in general, the Hospital Corpsmen did 95% of the actual day to day patient care ("here's your Motrin Seaman Jones") with the Doc stepping on only when necessary. That was true for both of the docs on Ship #1 and when we were inport for any length of time, they often spent part of their days at the nearby clinic ashore to keep up their skills. On Ship #2, we were gone most of my tour so the shore clinic was not possible for the first Doc and the second Doc (USNA Grad) had enough extra time that he convinced the CO to let him work on his SWO qual. . . the full qualification that SWOs do. I did a lot of his shiphandling, most of his general warfare and all of his Navigation Quals and he turned out to be a pretty capable mariner. Bottom Line for Docs at sea was that they were kind of like a Fire Extinguisher and as long as we weren't taking casualties (our own or from elsewhere), the Doc was not heavily occupied

 

[UHBlackhawk]

For the Navy, workload depends on where you are in the Sea/Shore rotation. When assigned to shore duty - often at a Naval Hospital or Clinic, your workload is probably similar to most other medical professionals and generally not different to what was described above. On the other hand, when assigned to a ship it can be very different and the doc can probably catch up on their professional reading or whatever. I served on two ships with assigned docs and in general, the Hospital Corpsmen did 95% of the actual day to day patient care ("here's your Motrin Seaman Jones") with the Doc stepping on only when necessary. That was true for both of the docs on Ship #1 and when we were inport for any length of time, they often spent part of their days at the nearby clinic ashore to keep up their skills. On Ship #2, we were gone most of my tour so the shore clinic was not possible for the first Doc and the second Doc (USNA Grad) had enough extra time that he convinced the CO to let him work on his SWO qual. . . the full qualification that SWOs do. I did a lot of his shiphandling, most of his general warfare and all of his Navigation Quals and he turned out to be a pretty capable mariner. Bottom Line for Docs at sea was that they were kind of like a Fire Extinguisher and as long as we weren't taking casualties (our own or from elsewhere), the Doc was not heavily occupied

I’m not familiar with how the Navy does medicine, but I assume most of those on sea duty are either family practice or maybe docs without residencies. It would be tough for a specialist such as an ortho to get enough cases to stay current. That’s why the Army only deploys them for six months or so.
On the flip side it’s easier for such docs to get “cool schools”. I’ve seen Army family practice docs who are badge finders. Ranger school, airborne, air assault... you name it.
On the flip side, my wife once got chewed out because she let one of her ortho docs who specialized in pediatrics go to a 10 day “huah” school to help get promoted. Well, wouldn’t you know it. A pediatric case came in. Because the Army pediatric ortho was in the school it cost the Army $70K to air evac the patient to a civilian hospital.
In order to be competitive for command docs have to go to War College. For family practice and such not a big deal. For a specialized surgeon such as an orthopedist it costs the Army anywhere from $50-$100K/month in lost hospital revenue. So just the lost revenue for a 1 year school is between $500k-$1.2 million. These docs don’t attend the residence version of War College.
It’s ironic. Those in the trenches practicing medicine don’t get to move up. Those who take time off to go to schools get promoted and get command.