History Being Made.....

I was transfixed as well. They will be broadcasting graduation as well tomorrow and am looking forward to seeing these men and women get their tab. My daughter is planning on attending. Today she told me she was not attending to support the women per se but to support the the "first integrated class" of graduates. She has friends and classmates in this class. I am thrilled she will be in attendance.
 
tug_boat said:
Well I guess this thread is over.....next topic!
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/male-r...itting-here-now-if-not-for-shaye-509638211672
Congrats !!

Push Hard, Press Forward!!
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Perhaps. The easy part is done - proving that females can graduate from Ranger school. I knew that there were females that can graduate from Ranger school, but not many.

So what happens when the Infantry opens to females and not enough females want to branch Infantry or not enough female Infantry soldiers graduate from Ranger school? Would CPT Griest and LT Haver have branched Infantry if that was an option for them or would they have still branched MP and AVN?

To make the Army work, we have to look at among many things, numbers and the future, not the past accomlishments.
 
Ranger Jankowski is speaking at graduation. His road to Ranger ...astonishing. Have followed his story as well.
MemberLG said:
Perhaps. The easy part is done - proving that females can graduate from Ranger school. I knew that there were females that can graduate from Ranger school, but not many.

So what happens when the Infantry opens to females and not enough females want to branch Infantry or not enough female Infantry soldiers graduate from Ranger school?
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I believe the "cart before the horse" issue will take some time. When the ALARACT was released last year, many interested female were deployed, in the middle of training, did NOT want to be in the first class because of the political/media storm, wanted more time to prepare esp with tactical/field (land nav etc). The news was released a few months prior to the RTAC classes starting. Some women in the RTAC classes didn't even know they were going until a week before the last RTAC class started. The process was new, it had real time constraints, and glitches along the way. Many have pointed out that the Army could not not even come up with enough women to fill the classes...there are reasons beyond females not desiring to go. I am sure that these 2 women passing have also let females know that..it can be done and standards can be maintained (another issue females were also concerned with). I am hearing of more female cadets considering the path, I am hearing of more female soldiers training for the path....time will tell. Hope the time is given as this type of change will not occur quickly.
 
MemberLG said:
To make the Army work, we have to look at among many things, numbers and the future, not the past accomlishments.
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Advancements in society, technology, medicine etc etc are often the products of inspiration from past accomplishments. Without those that dare to explore, achieve the unachievable..we stagnate. Past accomplishments forge the way for future ones.
 
MemberLG said:
So what happens when the Infantry opens to females and not enough females want to branch Infantry or not enough female Infantry soldiers graduate from Ranger school?
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What do you think happens? You're a USMA and RS grad. You've got to have an opinion.
 
MomWPgirl said:
MemberLG said:
To make the Army work, we have to look at among many things, numbers and the future, not the past accomlishments.
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Advancements in society, technology, medicine etc etc are often the products of inspiration from past accomplishments. Without those that dare to explore, achieve the unachievable..we stagnate. Past accomplishments forge the way for future ones.
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I don't disagree on certain things what that past accomplishments forge the way for the future, but not for everything. Sending almost 200 volunteers to RAP regardless of their back ground, than 19 to Ranger school is not the same as someone branching Infantry, attending IOBC, than to Ranger school. No disrespect, regardless what you are hearing ultimately it's going to come down female combat arms soldiers with the right reason, physical attributes, and heart to continue the accomplishment. Talk is cheap. If I got a quarter for every time I heard someone say I am thinking about doing something I will be rich. Not rich if they actually had to do whatever they said they were going to do.
 
Sledge said:
MemberLG said:
So what happens when the Infantry opens to females and not enough females want to branch Infantry or not enough female Infantry soldiers graduate from Ranger school?
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What do you think happens? You're a USMA and RS grad. You've got to have an opinion.
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My opinion doesn't matter

Three possibly scenarios

Not enough interest, the experiment stays as an experiment.

Not enough interest, not acceptable to the leadership, females are forced into combat arms or any females can attend Ranger school regardless of thier MOS, and so on to keep it going.

There is enough interest by qualified female soldiers to keep it going.

My opinion, second scenario. I hope I am wrong.
 
MemberLG said:
Sledge said:
MemberLG said:
So what happens when the Infantry opens to females and not enough females want to branch Infantry or not enough female Infantry soldiers graduate from Ranger school?
Click to expand...

What do you think happens? You're a USMA and RS grad. You've got to have an opinion.
Click to expand...

My opinion doesn't matter

Three possibly scenarios

Not enough interest, the experiment stays as an experiment.

Not enough interest, not acceptable to the leadership, females are forced into combat arms or any females can attend Ranger school regardless of thier MOS, and so on to keep it going.

There is enough interest by qualified female soldiers to keep it going.

My opinion, second scenario. I hope I am wrong.
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Thanks for the reply. One clarification though. Is that all it takes to keep it going, "interest?" Or does there need to be a certain pass/success rate to keep it going?
 
MemberLG said:
Sending almost 200 volunteers to RAP regardless of their back ground, than 19 to Ranger school is not the same as someone branching Infantry, attending IOBC, than to Ranger school.
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They needed to start somewhere...data had to be collected. It is not like they had the option to send IN women to Ranger School. Time will tell in all of this. Again, hope they take the time.
 
Sledge said:
Thanks for the reply. One clarification though. Is that all it takes to keep it going, "interest?" Or does there need to be a certain pass/success rate to keep it going?
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I qualified my opinion with "qualified female soldiers." My assumption is that qualified, as to least meet the minimum physcal standard, female soldiers students should result in acceptable pass/success rate. Going back to one of my earlier points, need numbers to make it work. We could have a surge of female soldiers wanting to attend Ranger school, but if they can't meet the minimum physical standard, they won't even make it out the first week.

I could have expanded more on the scenario two as to some others have argued - lowering the standard at Ranger school to ensure females pass.

By all count, I am believe that CPT Griest and LT Haver have met the Ranger School standard, even perhaps a higher standard that I had to meet to graduate Many Ranger school graudates will agree that it's better to lucky than good at Ranger school. A quick side story, I was a squad leader during the Mountain phase. Our mission was total failure. I was expecting to fail the patrol I passed the patrol. The instructor told me that squad leaders did everything we can, bu the platoon leader screwed everything up. It could have been, the mission was a total faliure, so you failed. Can the school still keep the standard, now females have graduated (i.e. after first two, how come no females are graduating?)
 
Sledge said:
They all went to Ranger Training and Assessment Course (RTAC), which, for men, is only open to National Guard and Reserve components.
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Sledge, Were you aware some IN active duty guys go to RTAC? Me neither, but they do.
 
MomWPgirl said:
Sledge said:
They all went to Ranger Training and Assessment Course (RTAC), which, for men, is only open to National Guard and Reserve components.
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Sledge, Were you aware some IN active duty guys go to RTAC? Me neither, but they do.
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Are we talking? OK, Good.

No I was not. And if I was wrong in making "sweeping generalizations" about train-up for women, I am willing to admit that.

Still taking a hard line stance against women in the Combat Arms, however futile that may be at this point.
 
MomWPgirl said:
Sledge said:
They all went to Ranger Training and Assessment Course (RTAC), which, for men, is only open to National Guard and Reserve components.
Click to expand...
Sledge, Were you aware some IN active duty guys go to RTAC? Me neither, but they do.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? There was RIP (Ranger Indoctrination Program) for active duty Infantry. I believe it was mostly for Soldiers assigned to Ranger units. They had to pass it to attend Ranger school.

If active duty Inf attended RTAC, it would have bee on an exception to policy.
 
The following are the Ranger School statistics overview from 2010-2014:
  • 42% overall graduation rate between FY10-FY14.
  • 58% overall failure rate between FY10-FY14.
    • 36% of students fail in the first 4 days (“RAP Week”)
      • Ranger Physical Assessment (RPA) – 14.3%
      • Land Navigation – 12.4%
      • 12 mile foot march – 7.9%
      • Combat Water Survival Assessment (CWSA) – 1.3%
    • 14% of students fail due to Administrative reasons
      • Medical – 5.8%
      • SOR – 2.7%
      • LOM – 3.2%
      • Admin – 2.5%
    • 8% of students fail due to Academic reasons
      • Patrols – 3.4%
      • Patrols & Peers – 2.4%
      • Peers, Spots, Patrols/Spots, Peers/Spots, and Patrols/Peers/Spots each average to less than 1% of failures annually
  • Approximately 34% of students recycle at least one phase of Ranger School
    • 61% of Recycles are due to patrols
 
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