History Being Made.....


Read the article, but some what skeptical. To me, it's an article jumping on the bandwagon that since two females graduated from Ranger School, from now on females attending Ranger school is nothing special (some something similiar). I don't doubt that there will be more females graduating from Ranger school, but the important question is how many more?

Perahps I could be one of those naysayers, but besides pundits, in my small circle of Ranger qualified soldiers I know, we are all neutral or positive about female Ranger students. It is what is, this is not a case of either you are for it or against it. There is a third option - neutral. Or if asking a question is being negative, do we live under a dictatorship - no questioning around or only certain types of questions are allowed.

Someone could chime in if things have changed or not, but I don't recall 12 mile ruck march at Ranger school being an individual event. It was a unit movement and the goals was to finish and not fall behind, so if the claim is a female Ranger student finished "second," either the 12 mile road march has changed or something is being embellished.

Lastly, two female students carrying 240B and Radio doesn't mean other female students did. wo female Ranger students carrying 240B and Radio means they carried more than their share of the squad load. We cannot assume that other female Ranger students also carried more than their share of the squad load. Again, unless things have changed, there are some minor advantages to carrying 240B or Radio as a Ranger student.
 
The ruck march is the last event in RAP week. It is a timed 12 mile march which the soldiers (and occasional Marine) must finish in less than three hours. A couple of classes ago, somebody finished exactly when time was called. Unfortunately for him, the tie went to the RI, and he was dropped from the class. It is based purely on individual performance, except to the extent that people will encourage their marching buddies.
 

Read the article, but some what skeptical. To me, it's an article jumping on the bandwagon that since two females graduated from Ranger School, from now on females attending Ranger school is nothing special (some something similiar). I don't doubt that there will be more females graduating from Ranger school, but the important question is how many more?

There is not doubt that there are more that can make it. There are females (few) at USMA that tab the IOCT on the men's scale.

But, my question, is: Can the Army and its civilian leadership under the current administration resist the urge to set an acceptable percentage of female pass rate? If the pass rate isn't "high enough," what happens? Are they going to be satisfied with only, to use the favored term du jour, "outliers" passing the course?

Or...is this how it goes?

The two females that passed Ranger School prove that women can do anything in the Army. Henceforth, any time they are unable to achieve something, it is because the patriarchy is against them.
 
The ruck march is the last event in RAP week. It is a timed 12 mile march which the soldiers (and occasional Marine) must finish in less than three hours. A couple of classes ago, somebody finished exactly when time was called. Unfortunately for him, the tie went to the RI, and he was dropped from the class. It is based purely on individual performance, except to the extent that people will encourage their marching buddies.

Airmen and sailors, too
 
Lastly, two female students carrying 240B and Radio doesn't mean other female students did. wo female Ranger students carrying 240B and Radio means they carried more than their share of the squad load. We cannot assume that other female Ranger students also carried more than their share of the squad load. Again, unless things have changed, there are some minor advantages to carrying 240B or Radio as a Ranger student.

Some current data points that make the widely publicized "they even carried the 240B" comment a bit silly silly:

If they are using the same loadouts in IBOLC as RS (very likely), the 240B and Radio are not currently the heaviest loads anyway based on recent 2LT discussions. The 240B Asst gunner typically is nominally the heaviest with the tripod, and the SAW gunners often have heavier loads than the 240B gunner when a spare barrel is carried (common). There are also more SAW gunners, two in every line squad, where the 240B is only in the weapons squad. For live fire exercises you have to have qualified on the weapon to carry it, so it tends to be the same people with the SAW & 240B for anything but transit marches.

As Edelahanty alluded to, the 12 mile ruck in RAP wk is "free march"... currently each can move at their own pace. (Many run the flats and downhills). Don't know if they give major pluses to early finishers, buzz is that they do so for the 5 mile run, etc.

Don't know about RS, but in currently in IBOLC there are also many group rucks where they do move together and at same pace as memberlg mentioned. And with full loads (SAW, 240B, etc) that usually get traded off. Most of the IBOLC graded events like the ruck march, RPFT, etc directly mimic the RS events by design so I'd be surprised if they they were much different. My impression is after RAP week the rucking all shifts to team/buddy performance in alignment to memberlg's comment.
 
Also there is a very good article by a field or company grade officer about the chilling effects of the Generals weighing in so strongly on this subject.

With the point that the broader discussion of the impact & issues of women in Infantry cannot be discussed objectively now. Any NCO or officer who objectively raises a valid concern or question is immediately perceived and castigated as coming from a pure sexist perspective. And will likely suffer for raising that concern. With the long term risk being that we will miss key issues (including ways to address them) from experienced field leaders because they could not be raised without destroying their careers.

Still trying to find it again, it's an interesting read. But my takeaway from all this is that Generals making the case there was no undue command influence and weighing in so hard is in itself a form of undue command influence. And clearly has a chilling effect on the harder questions looming for Jan 2016.
 
With the point that the broader discussion of the impact & issues of women in Infantry cannot be discussed objectively now. Any NCO or officer who objectively raises a valid concern or question is immediately perceived and castigated as coming from a pure sexist perspective.

The same happens here from time to time.
 
Also there is a very good article by a field or company grade officer about the chilling effects of the Generals weighing in so strongly on this subject.

With the point that the broader discussion of the impact & issues of women in Infantry cannot be discussed objectively now. Any NCO or officer who objectively raises a valid concern or question is immediately perceived and castigated as coming from a pure sexist perspective. And will likely suffer for raising that concern. With the long term risk being that we will miss key issues (including ways to address them) from experienced field leaders because they could not be raised without destroying their careers.

Still trying to find it again, it's an interesting read. But my takeaway from all this is that Generals making the case there was no undue command influence and weighing in so hard is in itself a form of undue command influence. And clearly has a chilling effect on the harder questions looming for Jan 2016.

Yes, please link it here if you find the article.

To the other point, it's becoming like a Combloc military, where no one will tell the truth if it conflicts with the party line. Thus, there can't possibly be any detriment to unit/combat effectiveness because it won't be acknowledged.
 
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