How are senior year behavior changes viewed?

[MangoAssassin]

Throughout my first three years in HS I really slacked off on extracurriculars. I participated in XC, Track, FBLA, Key Club, and Spanish/National Honor Society, but had no real involvement or dedication to the activities. This last summer I pretty much asked myself "What am I doing with my life?", and decided that I needed to make a change.

I wanted to get your guys' opinions on how a senior-year change to this type of behavior looks (obviously I know that no one here knows exactly how the admissions officers see things, but general thoughts and ideas are great). I focused on involving myself mainly in volunteering, because I've had a decent amount of previous experience in that area, and really enjoy making a positive impact on my community. This year I'm Treasurer of SHS, VP of FBLA (also in charge of managing all of our chapter's volunteering opportunities), tutor at my middle school, member of my regional CAP program, and founder of an organization that helps local senior citizens with things like shoveling snow, raking leaves, and delivering groceries. Unfortunately, the elections for this year's officers for NHS and Key Club took place last year, so I missed out on that opportunity. I'm currently talking with my FBLA advisers about hosting a charity walk/run this upcoming Spring for the March of Dimes foundation, which is the partnered charity of the FBLA program. On a slightly different note, I also started a debate team for our school.

It's not a question of whether this will be viewed as a positive or not (I know that no real involvement for my first three years is a bad negative), but rather a question of how badly it will be viewed after the change. Do they place the most weight on senior year (since it gives the most recent picture of the candidate), or do they look at freshman/sophomore year and assume I still have the same character as I did then?

Thanks.

 

[MidCakePa]

I have no inside information. But if I were in USAFA Admissions, I would see your efforts as well intended, but “too little, too late.” Competition for appointments is all relative, so you’ll be up against candidates who didn’t wait until senior year to start acting like a leader (on top of their strong academics, test scores, athletics, etc.). A track record of three years is a lot more compelling than a snippet of less than one year.

Not to say it’s impossoble, but you’d better have a compelling story to explain your late conversion. What moved you — a newfound passion or the realization that you needed to check a box? Focus on the impact you had as a leader, i.e. how you rallied people to a cause. How did you make an organization or community better? This is the key to leadership, not just titles held or elections won. Best wishes.

 

[MangoAssassin]

I have no inside information. But if I were in USAFA Admissions, I would see your efforts as well intended, but “too little, too late.” Competition for appointments is all relative, so you’ll be up against candidates who didn’t wait until senior year to start acting like a leader (on top of their strong academics, test scores, athletics, etc.). A track record of three years is a lot more compelling than a snippet of less than one year.

Not to say it’s impossoble, but you’d better have a compelling story to explain your late conversion. What moved you — a newfound passion or the realization that you needed to check a box? Focus on the impact you had as a leader, i.e. how you rallied people to a cause. How did you make an organization or community better? This is the key to leadership, not just titles held or elections won. Best wishes.

Thanks for the feedback. "Too little, too late" is what I feared, but I'm going to give it my all anyway. If I don't get in, I'm going to reapply next year, and will be using that extra year of time to build upon what I started and show that it wasn't a last minute scramble to check a box.

 

[FMHS-79]

I have acquaintance that is an admissions officer at a well-respected university -- she's mentioned that she sees a large number of applications that indicates dramatic jump in EC engagement during the spring of the applicants' Junior year or fall of the applicants' Senior year. I don't know how USAFA will evaluate this, but she indicated that she tends to dismisses the activities she considers as simply "résumé padding".

As @MidCakePa indicated, be prepared to articulate what has changed in your life and that your dramatic increase in engagement is not just an effort to check the box to earn a few more WCS points. Good luck.

 

[MangoAssassin]

I have acquaintance that is an admissions officer at a well-respected university -- she's mentioned that she sees a large number of applications that indicates dramatic jump in EC engagement during the spring of the applicants' Junior year or fall of the applicants' Senior year. I don't know how USAFA will evaluate this, but she indicated that she tends to dismisses the activities she considers as simply "résumé padding".

As @MidCakePa indicated, be prepared to articulate what has changed in your life and that your dramatic increase in engagement is not just an effort to check the box to earn a few more WCS points. Good luck.

Thank you for the response. I wish I had some extravagant story to explain the change in mindset, but unfortunately I don't. The truth is is that I had always been a very shy kid who was afraid of stepping outside of my comfort zone, which led me to often prefer to do things at home or with close friends rather than be super involved in school extracurriculars. In the areas where I was very comfortable, like academics, I did actually step up as a leader various times, but in all the other areas, I was a coward. All my decisions were based around "what could go wrong" rather than "what could go right". Over the summer, I realized that this was an utterly terrible way to live my life, constantly backing down from these uncomfortable situations for fear of failure. All the opportunities missed, all the "what if's" I would have to deal with for the rest of my life... I needed to learn to just go for it, to take risks, to put myself out there even when the outcome wasn't guaranteed; USAFA served as the motivation to help me achieve that. I knew that the transition would be extremely difficult, and I also knew that there was no way in **** I would be accepted into the academy without making that transition, so I used the pursuit of admissions into USAFA to force myself to make the change. In the past few months I've done things I never thought I would do in a million years; campaigning for officer roles, going out of my way to contact people about volunteer opportunities, running FBLA meetings, organizing groups of volunteers... it was all extraordinarily hard at first, but now it feels like second nature, and I look back and wonder how I could have lived the way I used to.

So... that's why I had "waited" until this year. Am I doing all of these things just to check a box? I would say that yes, yes I am. However, they aren't the same type of boxes you're thinking of. They aren't boxes on USAFA's list. They're boxes on my own. Each box checked is another fear conquered, another challenge overcome, another strive towards becoming the best person that I can be. They're boxes that will be kept with me for the rest of my lifetime, as permanent aspects of my character that won't be tossed aside for the simple use of application fodder, but forged together to lay the foundation for the type of individual I'm working to become. This is also the reason why I so passionately want to attend USAFA: any college can get you an education, any college can help you earn a paycheck, but not any college can give you the same growth of character.

I hope that clears up any confusion.

 

[greenleaf]

Thank you for the response. I wish I had some extravagant story to explain the change in mindset, but unfortunately I don't. The truth is is that I had always been a very shy kid who was afraid of stepping outside of my comfort zone, which led me to often prefer to do things at home or with close friends rather than be super involved in school extracurriculars. The areas where I was very comfortable, like academics, I did actually step up as a leader various times, but in all the other areas of my life, I was a coward. All my life choices were based around "what could go wrong" rather than "what could go right". Over the summer, I realized that this was an utterly terrible way to live my life, constantly backing down from these uncomfortable situations for fear of failure. All the opportunities missed, all the "what if's" I would have to deal with for the rest of my life... I needed to learn to just go for it, to take risks, to put myself out there even when the outcome wasn't guaranteed; USAFA served as the motivation to help me achieve that. I knew that the transition would be extremely difficult, and I also knew that there was no way in **** I would be accepted to the academy without making that transition, so I used the pursuit of admissions into USAFA to force myself to make the change. In the past few months I've done things I never thought I would do in a million years; campaigning for officer roles, going out of my way to contact people about volunteer opportunities, running FBLA meetings, organizing groups of volunteers... it was all extraordinarily hard at first, but now it feels like second nature, and I look back and wonder how I could have lived like I used to.

So... that's why I had "waited" until this year. Am I doing all of these things just to check a box? I would say that yes, yes I am. However, they aren't the same type of boxes you're thinking of. They aren't boxes on USAFA's list. They're boxes on my own. Each box checked is another fear conquered, another challenge overcome, another strive towards becoming the best person that I can be. They're boxes that will be kept with me for the rest of my lifetime, as permanent aspects of my character that won't be tossed aside for the simple use of application fodder. That's the reason I want so desperately to go to USAFA: any college can get you an education, any college can help you earn a paycheck, but not any college can give you the same growth in character.

I hope that clears up any confusion.

this explanation would be an excellent use of the "is there anything else you think would be of importance" essay question of the application. Good luck.

 

[MidCakePa]

@MangoAssassin, congratulations for your maturity and introspection. You’re way ahead of many peers. Even if you don’t win appointment to USAFA, you’ll be better for pushing yourself beyond your comfort zone. It’s an exercise that will serve you well in life, no matter what you choose to do. The military certainly could use people with your drive and persistence. Well done.

 

[OldRetSWO]

I have acquaintance that is an admissions officer at a well-respected university -- she's mentioned that she sees a large number of applications that indicates dramatic jump in EC engagement during the spring of the applicants' Junior year or fall of the applicants' Senior year. I don't know how USAFA will evaluate this, but she indicated that she tends to dismisses the activities she considers as simply "résumé padding".

In doing BGO and Senatorial interviews, I have encountered candidates who have suddenly gone out for Cross Country in their Junior Year. When I see this at an interview in the fall of their senior year, I will always ask them for their times. When I hear 26 or 28 minutes (or even worse), I'm pretty sure that I'm seeing resume padding as someone running a 5K in 26 minutes in their second year on a team is either not really training or is someone whose physical makeup is probably not congruent with the needs of the US military.

 

[MidCakePa]

When I hear 26 or 28 minutes (or even worse), I'm pretty sure that I'm seeing resume padding as someone running a 5K in 26 minutes in their second year on a team is either not really training or is someone whose physical makeup is probably not congruent with the needs of the US military.

Or in the case of my DD, someone who played a very rugged and rigorous sport for 11 years, and competed nationally at the highest club level, but quit after the 11th grade for personal reasons. And who took up cross country in 12th grade, knowing her lack of running background and our location’s high elevation would result in mediocre times. She plowed on anyway, which created a strong base for her spring sport and plebe summer.

 

[MangoAssassin]

I have acquaintance that is an admissions officer at a well-respected university -- she's mentioned that she sees a large number of applications that indicates dramatic jump in EC engagement during the spring of the applicants' Junior year or fall of the applicants' Senior year. I don't know how USAFA will evaluate this, but she indicated that she tends to dismisses the activities she considers as simply "résumé padding".

In doing BGO and Senatorial interviews, I have encountered candidates who have suddenly gone out for Cross Country in their Junior Year. When I see this at an interview in the fall of their senior year, I will always ask them for their times. When I hear 26 or 28 minutes (or even worse), I'm pretty sure that I'm seeing resume padding as someone running a 5K in 26 minutes in their second year on a team is either not really training or is someone whose physical makeup is probably not congruent with the needs of the US military.

I have my last race of the season coming up tomorrow actually, and I'm shooting for 19:45. Definitely not great, but I'd say also not terrible.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

I'll join the "too little , too late" crowd...but it really goes beyond that. The emphasis should be on what you contribute, accomplish or achieve when engaged in ECA's . This is what leads to leadership opportunities, which is really what Service Academies are looking for.

It's not about "checking a block." Focus on those activities that you truly believe in, contribute and make the organization better. Leading one group to a significant accomplishment is better than simply attending meetings of dozens.

I will echo MidCake on congratualations for recognizing this now , as it is something that applies to the rest of your life. I am have served on a number of Community Boards and Organizations over the years, and have always been active, engaged, and have usually ended up as President or other Executive position, while many others serve on the Board to "check the block" or take advantage of the prestige (hmmm..I never thought of any non-paying Board position as "prestigious", but there are those that d0). Be a contributor...limit activities to those you truly believe in, and you will get alot of satisfaction.

 

[jebdad]

Throughout my first three years in HS I really slacked off on extracurriculars. I participated in XC, Track, FBLA, Key Club, and Spanish/National Honor Society, but had no real involvement or dedication to the activities. This last summer I pretty much asked myself "What am I doing with my life?", and decided that I needed to make a change.

I wanted to get your guys' opinions on how a senior-year change to this type of behavior looks (obviously I know that no one here knows exactly how the admissions officers see things, but general thoughts and ideas are great). I focused on involving myself mainly in volunteering, because I've had a decent amount of previous experience in that area, and really enjoy making a positive impact on my community. This year I'm Treasurer of SHS, VP of FBLA (also in charge of managing all of our chapter's volunteering opportunities), tutor at my middle school, member of my regional CAP program, and founder of an organization that helps local senior citizens with things like shoveling snow, raking leaves, and delivering groceries. Unfortunately, the elections for this year's officers for NHS and Key Club took place last year, so I missed out on that opportunity. I'm currently talking with my FBLA advisers about hosting a charity walk/run this upcoming Spring for the March of Dimes foundation, which is the partnered charity of the FBLA program. On a slightly different note, I also started a debate team for our school.

It's not a question of whether this will be viewed as a positive or not (I know that no real involvement for my first three years is a bad negative), but rather a question of how badly it will be viewed after the change. Do they place the most weight on senior year (since it gives the most recent picture of the candidate), or do they look at freshman/sophomore year and assume I still have the same character as I did then?

Thanks.

It's possible that it is a little too late but I would reframe the question to what is "too late?" You know what has the possibility to wash away some imperfections on a high school career? Applying a second time after denial.

Coming from experience, if you truly want it, the extra year is typically nothing but a positive for you developmentally (and for your file) if you work hard and knock it out of the park. That extra year may have been the best think that ever happened to my "shy" cadet who took a while to get going in HS.

 

[Humey]

I am sure there is a lot of padding in Junior and Senior year. But I have to imagine there are lots of kids who dont get it until later in high school. What i mean is that they dont realize where they want their life to be heading or even if they plan on going to college. I get that their are kids who know from freshman year that they plan to go to West Point or Stanford and work on it from day 1. It wouldnt be fair to them if they do all the work and lose out to someone who started putting it together Junior year. On the other hand, should we dismiss someone who wasnt mature enough to figure out what they wanted when they were 16 years old but now has matured and come to the realization of what they want out of life. There are kids in junior high that know what they want and work at it. I just dont know if they are any better and more deserving than those who figure it out when they are 17 years old. When the kids are really young, the teachers will tell you that not to compare your child to another because by the time they hit 3rd grade they all pretty much catch up to each other. Of course there will always be differences and some kids are smarter than others. But I think when it comes to knowing what you want to do with your life and how to proceed, not everyone goes by it the same way or timetable. My point being is that I hope the SA looks the individual and can tell the difference between someone who is padding their resume and someone who figured it out later in their high school life.

 

[OldRetSWO]

I have acquaintance that is an admissions officer at a well-respected university -- she's mentioned that she sees a large number of applications that indicates dramatic jump in EC engagement during the spring of the applicants' Junior year or fall of the applicants' Senior year. I don't know how USAFA will evaluate this, but she indicated that she tends to dismisses the activities she considers as simply "résumé padding".

In doing BGO and Senatorial interviews, I have encountered candidates who have suddenly gone out for Cross Country in their Junior Year. When I see this at an interview in the fall of their senior year, I will always ask them for their times. When I hear 26 or 28 minutes (or even worse), I'm pretty sure that I'm seeing resume padding as someone running a 5K in 26 minutes in their second year on a team is either not really training or is someone whose physical makeup is probably not congruent with the needs of the US military.

I have my last race of the season coming up tomorrow actually, and I'm shooting for 19:45. Definitely not great, but I'd say also not terrible.

No, I would not think that a 19:45 was slacking for a first year runner and I've seen plenty of 3 and 4 year runners in that ballpark.

 

[MangoAssassin]

I have acquaintance that is an admissions officer at a well-respected university -- she's mentioned that she sees a large number of applications that indicates dramatic jump in EC engagement during the spring of the applicants' Junior year or fall of the applicants' Senior year. I don't know how USAFA will evaluate this, but she indicated that she tends to dismisses the activities she considers as simply "résumé padding".

In doing BGO and Senatorial interviews, I have encountered candidates who have suddenly gone out for Cross Country in their Junior Year. When I see this at an interview in the fall of their senior year, I will always ask them for their times. When I hear 26 or 28 minutes (or even worse), I'm pretty sure that I'm seeing resume padding as someone running a 5K in 26 minutes in their second year on a team is either not really training or is someone whose physical makeup is probably not congruent with the needs of the US military.

I have my last race of the season coming up tomorrow actually, and I'm shooting for 19:45. Definitely not great, but I'd say also not terrible.

No, I would not think that a 19:45 was slacking for a first year runner and I've seen plenty of 3 and 4 year runners in that ballpark.

This is my third year of XC.

 

[bopper]

I am an alumni interviewer for a "normal" school...i have to say that I don't look at when the activities were done as much...like you would say FBLA 9-12, and VP 12th grade where you in charge of managing all of our chapter's volunteering opportunities. That is a normal progression of leadership.