How likely will son get kicked out for conduct/aptitude issues?

As the parent of the fellow candidate, stories like that are important to be told for the benefit of others. However, it is frustrating that cadets like that took spots from others who wanted to join and graduate from the academies without having similar behavioral issues.
 
mike1979 said:
As the parent of the fellow candidate, stories like that are important to be told for the benefit of others. However, it is frustrating that cadets like that took spots from others who wanted to join and graduate from the academies without having similar behavioral issues.
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I don’t like to think of it as that cadet taking a spot away from anyone. He earned his spot at the Academy. It is important to remember that most cadets enter at 17 or 18 yo. That is a very young age to know what you want to do with your life or go about it without making mistakes. It may very well be that this young man is not adapting to a military lifestyle. He (or his parents) may not have know that was a possibility when he showed up bright-eyed for I-Day. The admissions process does its best to ensure they choose candidates who will graduate, but the system will never be perfect.
 
HCopter said:
Does your DS really want to be there, or is this a cry for help to get out?

It seems self-sabatoging in just about every measure.
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^ This was my initial thought when reading the initial post. I certainly don't know USAFA culture and regs, but things like being in the right place, at the right time, and in the right uniform are not all that hard, and their is little tolerance for someone who consciously breaks the rules.

mike1979 said:
However, it is frustrating that cadets like that took spots from others who wanted to join and graduate from the academies without having similar behavioral issues.
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99Gold said:
I don’t like to think of it as that cadet taking a spot away from anyone. He earned his spot at the Academy
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^Agree with 99... Service Academies admit applicants with an end goal of commissioning XXX new officers each year...they are pretty good at predicting their yield, but always account for some loss. No one is taking the place of another candidate -- the one that was admitted earned their spot, and didn't "take" the spot from anyone.
 
Old Navy BGO said:
^ This was my initial thought when reading the initial post. I certainly don't know USAFA culture and regs, but things like being in the right place, at the right time, and in the right uniform are not all that hard, and their is little tolerance for someone who consciously breaks the rules.




^Agree with 99... Service Academies admit applicants with an end goal of commissioning XXX new officers each year...they are pretty good at predicting their yield, but always account for some loss. No one is taking the place of another candidate -- the one that was admitted earned their spot, and didn't "take" the spot from anyone.
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Yes, the candidate earned the spot no question about this, based on whatever he put in his application. However, if the candidate isn’t prepared for the academy or what comes after the graduation then this candidate had no business applying. At the end this doesn’t benefit the candidate and the fellow applicants who didn’t get picked over the individual who just doesn’t care. All completely avoidable if more forethought was put before the application process. Again, the spot could’ve been given to someone else who is more mature and determined.
 
mike1979 said:
Yes, the candidate earned the spot no question about this, based on whatever he put in his application. However, if the candidate isn’t prepared for the academy or what comes after the graduation then this candidate had no business applying. At the end this doesn’t benefit the candidate and the fellow applicants who didn’t get picked over the individual who just doesn’t care. All completely avoidable if more forethought was put before the application process. Again, the spot could’ve been given to someone else who is more mature and determined.
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Earn your slate. And then you have the ability to navigate this rough path.
 
mike1979 said:
Yes, the candidate earned the spot no question about this, based on whatever he put in his application. However, if the candidate isn’t prepared for the academy or what comes after the graduation then this candidate had no business applying. At the end this doesn’t benefit the candidate and the fellow applicants who didn’t get picked over the individual who just doesn’t care. All completely avoidable if more forethought was put before the application process. Again, the spot could’ve been given to someone else who is more mature and determined.
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I had this exact same view when I was applying to the Academy. However, after being here for over 2 years now, I have to disagree. I have wanted to come to USAFA since I was about 8 years old and did extensive research on how to get in and how to survive during both my middle school and high school years. Despite all of that research and preparation, I was completely blindsided on I-day. I knew basic was going to be tough, but I could have never predicted just how brutal those 30-ish days were. Then on A-day, I had the realization that basic was actually the easy part: all you had to do was follow instructions. During the academic year I had to find a way to juggle homework, military training, physical fitness, having a social life, a healthy sleep schedule and much much much more. It is possible to read about these things ahead of time (as I most definitely did) but it is almost impossible to properly prepare yourself as there is no way to mimic this kind of environment. USAFA is an awesome and brutal place at the same time in that the impact it has on different people is almost entirely unpredictable. Some people who you would expect to do very well end up falling behind, while others that you would gauge as relatively weak end up excelling. That's just my two cents.
 
DTT!FSA! said:
You don't know if you are going to be able to keep your head above water until you actually get thrown into the river and then make it through the rapids.
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There are behavioral issues here. Cursing, not following directions, etc… that go on top of academics issues.
 
mike1979 said:
There are behavioral issues here. Cursing, not following directions, etc… that go on top of academics issues.
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And until someone has walked the halls as a Cadet or Mid you will never truly understand why things like this happen. You have mentioned you child is applying… may they receive an appointment and have no speed bumps along the way. What happens in those walls everyday can not be truly understood unless one lives it.
 
USAFA_86 said:
I had this exact same view when I was applying to the Academy. However, after being here for over 2 years now, I have to disagree. I have wanted to come to USAFA since I was about 8 years old and did extensive research on how to get in and how to survive during both my middle school and high school years. Despite all of that research and preparation, I was completely blindsided on I-day. I knew basic was going to be tough, but I could have never predicted just how brutal those 30-ish days were. Then on A-day, I had the realization that basic was actually the easy part: all you had to do was follow instructions. During the academic year I had to find a way to juggle homework, military training, physical fitness, having a social life, a healthy sleep schedule and much much much more. It is possible to read about these things ahead of time (as I most definitely did) but it is almost impossible to properly prepare yourself as there is no way to mimic this kind of environment. USAFA is an awesome and brutal place at the same time in that the impact it has on different people is almost entirely unpredictable. Some people who you would expect to do very well end up falling behind, while others that you would gauge as relatively weak end up excelling. That's just my two cents.
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If you'd said you graduated from Air Academy High School...

You would have sounded like me!

Well said!

Steve
USAFA ALO
 
AROTC Parent said:
No, and nice try BLHenry
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do you really believe that what is happening right now with that person - being kicked out from the school, parents doing backflips trying to figureout what to do next with his education and how to pay for the current circus (and this is just what is on the surface) much better alternative than not joining the SA and instead going to school that is a much better fit?

Btw If you want to help him so much then why don’t you just all collectively sign a letter to the SA and maybe he would get another chance.
 
There can be a lot of subtle stuff going on well below the surface here. All college kids go through a lot of changes via normal personal growth, poorly handled stress, mental illness, substance abuse, relationship chaos and anything else that's ever upended a high achieving 20 year old. It's pretty common, to be honest, and academies are higher stress and intensity than most normal universities so it's kind of surprising there aren't more cases like this each year. DS could be seeing this disciplinary exit, consciously or subconsciously, as something that could get him out of a DOR that would require him to ask to walk away from the full ride, the accolades received when he left home, the service to country and so on. Or it could be a million other things that lead to this, many of which were not in play when he applied, interviewed, accepted or even went through his first year or three. It's not simple when a kid changes schools from St Prestigious College to Middle Directional State U, and this is an even more wrought transition, so it's important to set aside frustration and allow a little grace to the student and family who may be mourning the passing of a dream.
 
StPaulDad said:
There can be a lot of subtle stuff going on well below the surface here. All college kids go through a lot of changes via normal personal growth, poorly handled stress, mental illness, substance abuse, relationship chaos and anything else that's ever upended a high achieving 20 year old. It's pretty common, to be honest, and academies are higher stress and intensity than most normal universities so it's kind of surprising there aren't more cases like this each year. DS could be seeing this disciplinary exit, consciously or subconsciously, as something that could get him out of a DOR that would require him to ask to walk away from the full ride, the accolades received when he left home, the service to country and so on. Or it could be a million other things that lead to this, many of which were not in play when he applied, interviewed, accepted or even went through his first year or three. It's not simple when a kid changes schools from St Prestigious College to Middle Directional State U, and this is an even more wrought transition, so it's important to set aside frustration and allow a little grace to the student and family who may be mourning the passing of a dream.
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Well stated.

NO ONE is the same persons they are at 7,17, 23, 38, 55 and so on. It’s ridiculous and impossible. We grow and change. OMG to even think that’s possible.

And I also suspect the self sabatoge in order to be released without back pay, etc. No way to know of course, but it’s a way they could be managing their circumstance. So Mike1979, you wouldn’t know that whole story, unless you were the student. You may not like it, that’s your prerogative, but you are making assumptions about a situation looking from it from the outside. None of us are privy to the whole story. There are as many different reasons people leave, and how they process through that, as their are grains of sand.

As @A1Janitor said, win your slate. Then that win is yours to do with what you want. And that’s how you move forwards towards an appointment.
 
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justdoit19 said:
Well stated.

NO ONE is the same persons they are at 7,17, 23, 38, 55 and so on. It’s ridiculous and impossible. We grow and change. OMG to even think that’s possible.

And I also suspect the self sabatoge in order to be released without back pay, etc. No way to know of course, but it’s a way they could be managing their circumstance. So Mike1979, you wouldn’t know that whole story, unless you were the student. You may not like it, that’s your prerogative, but you are making assumptions about a situation looking from it from the outside. None of us are privy to the whole story. There are as many different reasons people leave, and how they process through that, as their are grains of sand.

As @A1Janitor said, win your slate. Then that win is yours to do with what you want. And that’s how you move forwards towards an appointment.
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It is the exact approach that the slate is mine and therefore I am going to do whatever I want with it breads the problems like that. Treating the appointment like a pair of sneakers picked up at the mall - they are mine and I am going to treat them as I wish, go get yours and do whatever you want with them yourself.
 
mike1979 said:
It is the exact approach that the slate is mine and therefore I am going to do whatever I want with it breads the problems like that. Treating the appointment like a pair of sneakers picked up at the mall - they are mine and I am going to treat them as I wish, go get yours and do whatever you want with them yourself.
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That’s the law. If you don’t win your slate, you aren’t entitled to that appointment source.

Not everyone graduates. Not everyone signs their 2/7.
 
Might be time to accept that the only person who knows the whole story is the cadet and how this will end is open to a variety of influences about which most of us know very little and have even less input. The decision will be made by the Commandant and I'm sure all factors will be taken into account to try and graduate as many qualified and committed officer leaders that they can without taking unnecessary risks. To speculate about the reasons a total stranger may or may not have accepted an appointment for the right reasons is a little tough as, once again, only they can know. I hope, for the sake of the individual concerned, that the outcome leads to the best possible option for them and we can all wish them the best in whatever comes next. I would say that there are cadets who take appointments without any intention to serve through to retirement and yet they provide valuable service so their time was not wasted and their decision on the longevity of their own careers may have changed at many times throughout their service.
 
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