How to get into top tier grad programs like CMU and MIT?

[hopefull2022]

I always here about grads who got into top tier grad programs and was wondering how they achieved this. Do they go right after they graduate or after they have been in the fleet a little bit. I have about a 3.5 after my 1st semester.

 

[99Gold]

The current standard to go to grad school right after USAFA is a 3.85 according to ds's sponsor who is in the Aero dept. That is the USAFA standard to allow you to go, it does not mean that cadets are getting into top grad schools with that GPA. My ds really wants to go to grad school and he is focusing on keeping his GPA as high as possible and got a 3.93 this semester.

My dh, a West Point grad, went to Harvard Business School after he got out of the Army. He thinks that the only reason he got in was because he went to West Point (I think he was a top 10% grad if that helps). He was surrounded with some pretty amazing people while he was at HBS (and they have gone on to do incredible things). One of my USAFA classmates was in his HBS class, as well.

 

[AFrpaso]

The current standard to go to grad school right after USAFA is a 3.85 according to ds's sponsor who is in the Aero dept. That is the USAFA standard to allow you to go, it does not mean that cadets are getting into top grad schools with that GPA. My ds really wants to go to grad school and he is focusing on keeping his GPA as high as possible and got a 3.93 this semester.

My dh, a West Point grad, went to Harvard Business School after he got out of the Army. He thinks that the only reason he got in was because he went to West Point (I think he was a top 10% grad if that helps). He was surrounded with some pretty amazing people while he was at HBS (and they have gone on to do incredible things). One of my USAFA classmates was in his HBS class, as well.

3.85!? That sounds. . . extremely high. Perhaps that is the cut-off to allow cadets to apply for national and international fellowships? I'm thinking Rhodes, Gates-Cambridge, etc.

I always here about grads who got into top tier grad programs and was wondering how they achieved this. Do they go right after they graduate or after they have been in the fleet a little bit. I have about a 3.5 after my 1st semester.

There are many avenues to grad school. I'd encourage you to talk with your academic advisor about what that path might look like for you. I'll list a few ways here:

1. National/International Fellowships (Rhodes, Gates-Cambridge, etc.). These are extremely competitive and you must be "deemed worthy" by USAFA to be able to apply. You'll receive an email at some point if you make the cut.
2. Advanced Academic Degree (AAD): The USAF as a whole has a yearly callout for applicants interested in attending grad school. USAFA cadets are allowed to apply for master's degree slots. These slots are attached to specific career fields. Typically one would expect to be sent to the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT), the USAF grad school. However, if you can obtain your own funding from a civilian college, then you may be able to request a waiver from the USAF to go there instead of AFIT.
3. Graduate Scholars Program (GSP): Each academic department usually gets 1-2 slots to send cadets off to grad school on the condition that they return for an assignment as an instructor later in their career. Students in this category also usually go to AFIT unless they secure a waiver similar to the AAD scenario.
4. Air Education and Training Command Developing the Airmen We Need (AETC DAWN-ED): This is another USAF-wide callout for grad school slots, only under a separate program from AAD. I think there are 10-15 master's slots available. Bear in mind you will be competing with commissioned officers and AFROTC cadets. It is competitive. The cool thing is that you can go to any school that will accept you, fully funded by the USAF. One caveat is that you are limited in the type of degree you are allowed to study.

Also, you don't need to go to grad school straight out of the Academy. You can apply through the AAD or DAWN-ED programs while you are on active duty.

 

[FalconDad2026]

If a cadet is accepted into a civilian masters program and secures their own funding, do they owe any additional years of service for the 2 years that they spend away at graduate school?

 

[AFrpaso]

If a cadet is accepted into a civilian masters program and secures their own funding, do they owe any additional years of service for the 2 years that they spend away at graduate school?

Yes. Also, depending on the USAF program you may be restricted to an 18 month timeline.

The payback is 4.5 years, served consecutively with previous service commitments.

The degree cannot be personally funded. It has to be some sort of fellowship, scholarship, or some other form of departmental funding. Overall quite rare for masters degrees.

However there are a handful of schools with organizations that offer funding. The Purdue Military Research Institute is one that comes to mind.

Purdue Military Research Institute

 

[DomerDad]

@AFrpaso you seem to be in the know about such things. Do you happen to know what the USAFA GPA distribution curve looks like? I'm curious if it is skewed left, right or normal and what the mean and standard deviation looks like.

 

[mach01]

The average cumulative GPA in the past few years is right around 3.0 to 3.1. You can search for "USAFA Class of 20XX Graduation Fact Sheet" and see the yearly averages.

The 3.85 GPA requirement mentioned above is for nationally competitive fellowships like Rhoades, Marshalls, etc. Beyond that, GPA requirements largely depend on a number of factors such as which program the cadet is applying for, their major's department requirements, etc. There's also a differentiation between cumulative GPA and major's GPA; some programs only require major's while others require your cum.

In my department at USAFA, which is generally not very forgiving grade-wise, we're told 3.5 is the minimum and 3.7+ is competitive.

 

[HCopter]

A major nuance between USAFA and civilian schools is competing at the campus level and permission/endorsement by USAFA – by major and by those interested in that program/scholarship. Also, dependent on slots available that year – are some scholarships every other year, etc. Heavy emphasis on competitng at the campus level for limited slots. My DD got 1 of 4 slots for full summer internship in Washington, DC. She didn't have to apply "at large" per the program website, but did apply internally with USAFA, application and interview. In fact, the website says they have deals with certain colleges and USAFA gets 4 slots.

Your cadet should find out these things and for the specific type of graduate school, what is the optimal strategy for YOU. For example, MBA – is it better to attempt during AF days, get it paid for, payback period, finer nuances of all options such as how coming back to teach affects promotion/progression, or MBAing after your service to take advantage of all networking, internship, experiences that you would have to forego if paid by AF? My DD attended a session of 2 AF grads who when to HBS. One had his paid for by AF, and one who 5 and dived, and that was enlightening.

What entrance exam, what are threshold competitive scores?

Last, will their commissioning job even allow the cadet to pursue said degree?

My DD’s desired commission job requires a GRE; she took her first test on 12/19/22 (she is a 2C) and scored amply above the threshold. She’s walked the bases, now up to bat again for a home run on try #2 in the Spring when she will study and prepare. She doesn’t know for certain what she may get endorsements for, if any, but it won’t be for lack of things that are in her control.

 

[AFrpaso]

@AFrpaso you seem to be in the know about such things. Do you happen to know what the USAFA GPA distribution curve looks like? I'm curious if it is skewed left, right or normal and what the mean and standard deviation looks like.

I don't have that info, unfortunately. On top of what @mach01 said, a 3.85 will probably place a cadet in the top 2.5% of their class academically.

 

[Minuteman03]

I don't have that info, unfortunately. On top of what @mach01 said, a 3.85 will probably place a cadet in the top 2.5% of their class academically.

I have a 3.93 (4.0 major GPA) and I was told I was somewhere in the "top 50-25" by my advisor. I don't know how accurate this is.

 

[jeffinNC]

So, what is more difficult........ getting into a masters/PHD program or going to medical/dental school right from academy? We have a friend/ former cadet who graduated last year with a 3.1 GPA and was a biochem major. She is in medical school now. It just seems the average GPA of 3.85 for grad school is high.

 

[A1Janitor]

So, what is more difficult........ getting into a masters/PHD program or going to medical/dental school right from academy? We have a friend/ former cadet who graduated last year with a 3.1 GPA and was a biochem major. She is in medical school now. It just seems the average GPA of 3.85 for grad school is high.

Which medical school?

And how many applied out of the academy for how many available slots?

 

[jeffinNC]

Which medical school?

And how many applied out of the academy for how many available slots?

USU at Walter Reed is all I know. It just seems the average GPA for grad school is very high at 3.85. My daughter is a 2026er and her starting GPA is 3.4. I was interested for her sake. She was thinking about getting a masters in French or German in Europe. I didn't realize it was that competitive.

 

[A1Janitor]

USU at Walter Reed is all I know. It just seems the average GPA for grad school is very high at 3.85. My daughter is a 2026er and her starting GPA is 3.4. I was interested for her sake. She was thinking about getting a masters in French or German in Europe. I didn't realize it was that competitive.

I just did a quick google search.

It appears the average GPA for top tier medical schools is 3.81. I believe Walter Reed is considered mid-tier.

I suspect the same is true for programs other than medical for top schools. I am sure my son can get into some aero/mba schools. Whether that includes top schools in those fields, we don’t know. We hope so.

 

[jeffinNC]

I just did a quick google search.

It appears the average GPA for top tier medical schools is 3.81. I believe Walter Reed is considered mid-tier.

I suspect the same is true for programs other than medical for top schools. I am sure my son can get into some aero/mba schools. Whether that includes top schools in those fields, we don’t know. We hope so.

Yes that appears correct. I just spoke to another USAFA parent and she said 3.8 is for top schools. She said you have to have over 3.0-3.6 for lower and mid tier schools. This 3.9 stuff scared me There is still hope. Yes Walter Reed is mid-tier I found out. Thought it was top tier. Learn something new every day.

 

[AFrpaso]

I have a 3.93 (4.0 major GPA) and I was told I was somewhere in the "top 50-25" by my advisor. I don't know how accurate this is.

That sounds about right. Not sure what class year you are but generally the upper division classes are a bit harder and the top academic performers will collectively dip in GPA. There's definitely variation year-to-year as well.

 

[AFrpaso]

So, what is more difficult........ getting into a masters/PHD program or going to medical/dental school right from academy? We have a friend/ former cadet who graduated last year with a 3.1 GPA and was a biochem major. She is in medical school now. It just seems the average GPA of 3.85 for grad school is high.

FYI, there's no direct track to a PhD program out of the USAFA (that I am aware of). Though some folks have had success extending their master's program into a PhD, especially at AFIT.

 

[A1Janitor]

That sounds about right. Not sure what class year you are but generally the upper division classes are a bit harder and the top academic performers will collectively dip in GPA. There's definitely variation year-to-year as well.

At USNA, my son (1C) has found his senior year to be the easiest. 2C he finished his upper level aero major classes. His GPA remained consistent throughout his time there.

I suspect plebe academic year was hardest because of learning how to juggle everything despite “easier” academic classes.

Also - as you accumulate more credit hours, a lower grade has less impact on your cumulative GPA.

 

[99Gold]

At USNA, my son (1C) has found his senior year to be the easiest. 2C he finished his upper level aero major classes. His GPA remained consistent throughout his time there.

I suspect plebe academic year was hardest because of learning how to juggle everything despite “easier” academic classes.

Also - as you accumulate more credit hours, a lower grade has less impact on your cumulative GPA.

That's how it was for me when I was at USAFA as well. The adjustment during C4C year had the biggest impact on my grades. While majors classes were academically harder, they were more in my wheelhouse and more interesting to me making high grades easier. I suspect my DS will also be in that boat since his lowest grade was in a fuzzy class and was by far his least favorite. He just want more STEM classes.

 

[Tx2AFA]

These were the cutoffs they communicated to our class for the Nationally Competitive Scholarships cadets can apply for. Does not include AAD, GSP, DAWN.

• Fulbright: at least a 3.70 Cum GPA and a Foreign Language Minor
• Gerhart: at least a 3.50 Cum GPA and a French Minor
• Harvard Kennedy School Public Policy (MPP): at least a 3.85 Cum GPA
• Wolfe/Lawson Endowed Scholarships: at least a 3.50 Cum GPA with a major in one of the Humanities (English, History, FAS and Philosophy)
• RAND: at least a 3.70 Cum GPA
• Carnegie Mellon, Knight-Hennessy Scholarship, Hertz, NSF, Gates-Cambridge, Northeastern, MIT/NEU, Purdue, Rice, WA, Florida, Georgia Tech: at least 3.85 Cum GPA

For example I had below a 3.5 in an engineering major and still got a grad school slot for next year.