I’m a firstie (senior) at Navy, ask me anything!

[huntercrs]

How common is it to see college reapplicants, NAPSters/ prior enlisted, foundations students? I have read that they make up 30% of the class every year (?)

How common is it to double major?

Can you take classes during the summer to make space during the normal year to take more classes?

What is something that you didn't know, but wished you did, before arriving/ attending at USNA?

Thank you in advance!

There's a ton of them. In fact, if you combine college reapplicants, NAPsters, priors, and foundation, I would venture to guess that it's nearly split half-and-half between them and directs. You won't be alone if you're a reapplicant.

Double majors are not common. Within my class in my company (close to 40 people), I think we have two. We take the equivalent of about 5 years of course work at a normal institution, because they're cramming in the requirements needed for all of us to graduate with bachelors of science, so adding another major on top of that is a lot. I think lots of midshipmen come from high schools where they excelled and still have that ambitious fire in them... Once you get here, your expectations about academics will change a lot. Double majors tend to be more common among college reapplicants, especially if they validated a lot of classes. You'll choose your major around spring break of Plebe Year (unless you already validated a ton of courses and are starting major courses plebe year), so you'll have time to think about it. For some closely related majors, double majoring is easier. For example, Computer Engineering and Electrical Engineering, or Mechanical and Nuclear only differ by a couple classes, so it's easier to do than two unrelated majors.

You can take classes during the summer to make space. However, this means you will be giving up leave (summer break).

Last answer for your last question:

This is a tough one. To be frank, everything you need to know, you will quickly figure out. I wish I had a more realistic idea of what it was like here. I don't consider myself a cynical person, but I can guarantee that the academy will not meet the grand expectations that most people have of it. People who dream of coming here tend to have it on a pedestal. A lot of drags (high school visitors) look at us and talk to us as if we're superhumans... We're all just normal people trying to make it through. If you end up coming here, you'll meet people that make you question the admissions process, make you question the academy, make you question how this place has the (good) reputation that it does. You'll meet smart people, not-so-smart people, nice people, mean people, athletic people, really out of shape people -- you get the idea. This place is certainly unique, but I would argue we're all pretty normal and there's a large spectrum of personalities. You'll do fine if you get here. The system's not perfect, so know that, and don't get jaded.

Also, for any JROTC folks here. Once you're a mid, don't tell people you were in JROTC. Please. ESPECIALLY during Plebe Summer. Delete pictures from social media too. They'll haunt you forever. You might not understand now, but once you're here, you will.

Last piece of advice: Be humble. Trust me, there's someone at the school that's better than you at everything. You will meet people here that seem like they're just God's gift to America. They'll have 4.0's, will run sub 8 minute PRTs, and also are somehow the nicest person you will ever meet.

 

[huntercrs]

Some of your fellow mids use “Real Mids of Annapolis” co-star as a tagline. You qualify for the cast!

A gift for you:
View attachment 11901

I need one of these ASAP. Best gift I've ever received!

 

[huntercrs]

How is plebe year, I understand that plebe summer is going to suck, (as it should) but are the antics applied throughout plebe year? Any advice on how to strive during that time? Thank you very much in advance!

Saved this one for last.

First, despite what some people will tell you, Plebe Summer is not hard. Yes, it's stressful, it's busy, it's fast-paced, but it is not inherently difficult. It's one of those things where you know you'll make it through, it's just not super fun. It's not designed to make you want to quit. It's designed to indoctrinate you and familiarize you with USNA, the Navy, and its customs. After plebe summer, the antics do not end, but the environment definitely does change. During plebe summer, the upperclassman who are detailers are there solely to supervise and train you. The reality is, once Plebe Summer is over and the academic year has started, the upperclassmen have school, sports, extracurriculars, etc. They don't have time to train plebes like before. The environment is certainly more laid back, but that comes with trade-offs. For example, during Plebe Summer there's a limit on how many pushups detailers can make you do in a row. Once the Ac-Year starts, the ROE for the training staff is very broad, and they'll make you do as many pushups as they want. Plebe Summer is a HIGHLY controlled environment, whereas the Academic Year is very company dependent. Some companies will train there plebes super hard during the ac-year; they'll have to wear their summer whites 24/7, they won't be allowed to use their backpack straps, they'll still have to sir-sandwich everything, they'll get PT'd hard every morning. Other companies might barely do anything and pay little attention to plebes...

As for advice, just put out. It's as simple as that. Do your best in every evolution, and people will notice and respect you. As for smaller details off the top of my head: don't yell at your classmates when they're messing up. Don't correct the detailers. Don't make excuses. With all that in mind, take it light-heartedly. Do your best, but don't be the guy telling your roommates to "lock it up" because they're whispering after lights out. The last thing you want to do is be the Plebe that everyone in the company doesn't like because they're far too concerned about what OTHERS are doing.

 

[mullinfox]

What does the Seal applicant process look like? What will you be doing in the Marines?

 

[cyclist2028]

Thanks to everyone for the questions -- I'll try to get around to everything. I will do my best to be completely honest; so many people come here with the academy on this gold and shiny pedestal only to realize it wasn't everything they thought it was. Been at school all day so I haven't been able to respond yet.

1). Honestly, I had a strange attachment to the Naval Academy for no good reason. Looking back, I wish I considered West Point more. That's not to say that I regret my decision; I wholeheartedly know that I made the right choice to come to Navy. However, depending on what you want to do in the military, give the other services a look. For example, I know TONS of midshipmen that want nothing to do with ships or submarines... not a great place to start considering half of every class will end up in those communities. It's nearly impossible to avoid ships/submarines, regardless of the community you go into -- even Marines, especially now with Force Design 2030. Please, don't come here simply because you liked the school more. You'll be spending more time in the service than at whatever academy.

2). Weekends are great as a firstie. At this point in the year, we have weekday liberty, and have overnights Friday and Saturday. Things that people do vary, but in general, I think an all-encompassing word that describes weekends here is "relax." Lots of people go to their sponsor's place or have a friend with an apartment that their parent pays for, etc. Also, an observation that I think most midshipmen would agree with is that a lot of firstie weekends are spent in DTA (downtown annapolis) at the bars. Overall, the most consistent theme among midshipmen weekends is that they try to get away from the academy and forget about it for a couple days before it's back to work.

3). Consider Navy as your top choice if you think the Naval Service is the environment in which you want to lead. Like I touched on earlier, each Service Academy is unique, but I would think further ahead into the TYPE of service you want to be doing when considering which academy to go to. Navy's unique for its location. I think you can't argue that it's the best among the SAs, unless you're considering USMMA.

4). STEM Curriculum is solid, but definitely kicks some people in the butt. Regardless of major you WILL be taking classes like Electrical Engineering and Thermodynamics. If you're an engineering major I think there's a decent amount of hands on experience, especially because we all have to have a firstie Capstone project. Basically, it's like a senior thesis. I'm personally an Econ major, so it depends on what you classify as "hands on."

Professors are VERY available here; when they come here, they know that there is a great emphasis on teaching, unlike some big research universities. If you have bad grades you really don't have much of an excuse. There are tenured professors here who will come in at 10pm just to have one-on-one with a student. Usually, all you need to do is ask. Of course, as is anywhere, there are bad instructors. But, even they are usually willing to help.

5). The process is known as service assignment. In August of your firstie year you put in preferences, and in November you find out what you get. Ultimately, to answer your question, your warfare community is assigned to you, but you have a say in what you want. There's never any guarantees, though, unless you early-select for a nuclear community. I will be a Marine Corps Officer.

6). This is an interesting question. In all honesty, I think you would be surprised by the amount of people at our institution that aren't in great shape. I will say this, though -- our PRT (physical readiness test) standards are much higher than the actual Fleet. So, as long as you're passing, you're technically well within the Navy's standards. Overall, as long as you're passing the PRT, how much you workout and how good of shape you're in is 100% up to you, if you're not a varsity athlete. I know guys that work out for about a week every semester, right before the PRT, and I know guys that work out for hours every day. Whatever works for you. At the moment I am not in any sports, but I'd be happy to answer any questions about them.

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer all my questions! This has been really helpful and insightful. Wishing you the best on your future endeavors!

 

[MidCakePa]

Last piece of advice: Be humble. Trust me, there's someone at the school that's better than you at everything. You will meet people here that seem like they're just God's gift to America. They'll have 4.0's, will run sub 8 minute PRTs, and also are somehow the nicest person you will ever meet.

Awesome perspective from the front seat, @huntercrs. Many of us are in the cheap seats. What you say here is so spot on! High-school heroes do not necessarily become model midshipmen. There are a lot of very talented people out there.

The last thing you want to do is be the Plebe that everyone in the company doesn't like because they're far too concerned about what OTHERS are doing.

As they say, it takes only a few minutes to gain a bad reputation, but can take many years to get rid of it. Don’t be “that guy.”

 

[JMARSH2022]

Hi all,

I’ve spent 4 years at the place I dreamed of going to for years, and my prison break date is just a few weeks away. It’s been quite the journey. I haven’t been on these forums since high school, but I thought randomly that I might swing through and see if I can help anyone out.

I’m happy to answer any and all questions — admissions, life here (academic, athletics, social, COVID era), whatever you got.

For any lurking mids who are looking at my username and trying to guess who I am, no, my name is not hunter.

Based off of fellow mids in your class what are the chances of getting of the waitlist

 

[Capt MJ]

Based off of fellow mids in your class what are the chances of getting of the waitlist

While waiting for our firstie to stop back by, let me say you have to think of the waitlist as elastic waist pants, expands and contracts to fit as needed. If most or all applicants accept offered appointments at this stage, some or none will come off the waitlist. There is no linkage between cycles that could precisely predict how many each year come off a waitlist, except USNA has a very good grasp of the admissions data and likely yield out of offered appointments. They know when to pause in offering appointments as the acceptance deadline nears, and how many to place on the waitlist as they see the acceptance and declination data for the year.

Hang in there.

 

[huntercrs]

What does the Seal applicant process look like? What will you be doing in the Marines?

I figured this question would be coming. I'm pretty familiar with the SEAL/EOD screening process so for anyone else that has questions, I'm happy to answer. As for myself and the Marines, we don't get assigned an MOS (military occupational speciality aka a specific job) until we are done with TBS (the basic school). All USMC officers are required to go to TBS (six months in Quantico, VA), before they get assigned an MOS and take charge of a platoon.

I'll try to give you a basic breakdown of the SEAL screening process. It's actually changed quite a bit in the last year or two, so previous information might not be the most accurate.

-first, to begin, about 30% of the class (around 300 people) will put SEALs as their #1 choice in the career preference survey their Plebe year. By the time firstie year comes around, between 30-36 people will be selected to actually go to BUD/S. Going to BUD/S does not guarantee you will be a SEAL, although Naval Academy grads are known to succeed because the screening process is so rigorous before they arrive to BUD/S. However, I personally know multiple people that got selected and still quit or got dropped.

-your 2/C (junior) year you will be required to participate in the SEAL Screener. This occurs once a semester (fall and spring). In order to qualify for the screener, you have to take a PST (500 yd swim, max pullups, 2 min max pushups, 2 min max situps, 1.5 mile run). Once you have qualified via PST, you will take part in a week long "ruck issue." The purpose of this is to "earn" your ruck that you will use during the screener, as well as teach you the basics of doing boats and logs. If you're interested in the NSW community I'm sure you know what that means. As long as you don't drop before then, you will be allowed to continue and participate in the screener. Starting this year, they've allotted just a couple spots for 3/C (sophomore) midshipmen to participate. This semester, for the first time in academy history, they actually flew in ROTC midshipmen to participate as well.

-the screener has a couple aspects that I'll touch on. First, it's run by BUD/S instructors. It's usually between 24 to 30 hours long, with probably an hour or less to nap. You'll go through a bunch of different evolutions that are meant to challenge you physically and mentally, as well as evaluate your ability to work in a team and lead. There are a couple of ways that you can be dropped. First, you can quit. Second, you can be performance dropped. Third, you can be medically dropped. If you're dropped, you will not be a viable candidate for the next step in the process to become a SEAL. There are some exceptions for medical drops, but they are rare. You will be ranked on your performance. There are both objective and subjective scores. Objective being your physical performance, subjective being everything else, such as leadership, character, competence, etc.

-Roughly half of those people who finish the screener will be selected to go to SOAS (SEAL Officer Assessment and Selection). SOAS is roughly two weeks long, and consists of more BUD/S-esque training run by BUD/S instructors. There is also a series of interviews. If you are performance dropped, medically dropped, or quit during SOAS, you will not be eligible to put NSW as your first choice when service selection time comes.

-If you finish SOAS, come August, you will put SEALs as your first choice. In November, you find out whether or not you get it.

Let me know if you have some questions. There's tons of details I left out, but this is the general idea.

 

[huntercrs]

Based off of fellow mids in your class what are the chances of getting of the waitlist

To be honest, I have no statistics. However, I have a very good friend who was accepted after being on the waitlist. He'd already deposited money to go to a different college, found roommates, etc., but ended up taking the offer that Navy extended. I believe he got his appointment in May.

 

[huntercrs]

Awesome perspective from the front seat, @huntercrs. Many of us are in the cheap seats. What you say here is so spot on! High-school heroes do not necessarily become model midshipmen. There are a lot of very talented people out there.


As they say, it takes only a few minutes to gain a bad reputation, but can take many years to get rid of it. Don’t be “that guy.”

Well said!

For the hopefuls: another perspective I will offer, however, is some midshipmen seem to let go of all effort and ambition once they get here. Granted, the pain of being a midshipmen can often be discouraging and/or draining, but it's worth it to do your best while you're here. I'll be the first to admit that I know I could have done much better than I did. I've seen a lot of people who are extremely capable and have so much potential end up being extremely lazy once they become midshipmen. It was there life goal to get into the school, and once they achieved it, they kind of fell off. Be ready to work hard once you get here. The academy is only the beginning!

 

[Snyder874]

I am very interested in the EOD path. What does that process look like? How does it compare to the SEALS process? Thank you!

 

[aklore]

I did search but I didn’t find any recent opinions of what is good cell service on the yard and in Bancroft? I was wondering since I’m looking at changing providers for our family plan and prob want to make sure something g that has decent service in Annapolis.

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

What advice do you have for a pleb that comes in fairly certain it’s Navy spec ops or USMC for them?

How do you keep both options open as you progress over the years. Or do you have to decide one vs the other as far as preparing to be selected by ?

How do you keep both options open?

 

[Old Navy BGO]

As they say, it takes only a few minutes to gain a bad reputation, but can take many years to get rid of it. Don’t be “that guy.”

Another way to say this ..."it takes a whole lot of 'attaboys' to make up for one 'aw sh!t!'"

Thanks Huntercrs ... great input -- unless you are a whole lot better typer than I, that took some effort !

 

[USNA_STEM_Prof]

Professors are VERY available here; when they come here, they know that there is a great emphasis on teaching, unlike some big research universities. If you have bad grades you really don't have much of an excuse. There are tenured professors here who will come in at 10pm just to have one-on-one with a student. Usually, all you need to do is ask. Of course, as is anywhere, there are bad instructors. But, even they are usually willing to help.

FWIW -- with my PMP selection a big part of the competitiveness was documented and proven teaching experience / efficacy, so it makes me happy to read this. I'm sooooo excited to teach that I consistently need to remind myself not to look beyond the amazing opportunity I have for full-time PhD studies.

Congrats on being nearly finished.

 

[AN21]

Would you be able to elaborate on the selection process for MIDN who are hoping to commission in the USMC? I've tried poking around USNA's website to see if I can find more about the process but the most I've gotten is roughly *30% of the graduating class commission as Marines.

*this is the number I remember off the top of my head from my reading, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's wrong

 

[Skipper07]

How do you keep both options open as you progress over the years. Or do you have to decide one vs the other as far as preparing to be selected by ?

Typically those who don’t make the Final Cut for EOD/NSW are looked upon favorably by USMC.

 

[huntercrs]

I am very interested in the EOD path. What does that process look like? How does it compare to the SEALS process? Thank you!

The process is similar to the SEAL process, but also different in many ways. If you read my previous post on the SEAL process the things I say in my answer here will make a little more sense.

In the same way the SEAL process does, the EOD process also has a screener. When your junior year comes around, you can take a PST to qualify for the EOD screener. After that, you'll have ruck issue, and if you make it through that, you can compete in the screener. The screener is different in a couple of ways. First, it's slightly more individually focused. There's certain evolutions that require you alone to be competent. EOD requires a lot more water competency -- the first phase of the EOD pipeline is Dive School. The pool phase is usually 4 to 5 hours long, and consists of a lot of treading, a lot of bear crawling on pool decks, and a lot of underwater competency such as underwater knot tying, drown proofing, as well as what's known as a "ditch and don." If you go on youtube you can see what that is. It lasts about 24 hours, and is run but EOD techs that come from EOD mobile units down in Virginia.

If you complete the screener and you are ranked high enough, you will be sent to an EOD cruise (EOD summer training) the summer before your senior year. I think roughly 35 people get a cruise. You'll be at mobile unit, where you'll be evaluated in a variety of different ways. They'll test you physically and mentally, and also see if you fit into their community as a person.

In general, EOD is known to value personality a lot more than other communities, including SEALs. Only 15-17 people get selected every year, so they're very nitpicky about who is allowed to join their ranks, and they have the time and resources to really get to know you and see if they want you. There's a lot of physical studs that I know who are great guys, but just didn't mesh well with the EOD personalities. I also know people who weren't great physical performers that were much more competitive than those other guys. The community is reminiscent of a college frat. Over cruise, one evolution consisted of midshipmen going to the bars with the EOD techs. The EOD community cares a lot about how you'll get along with them even outside of work.

Once cruise is finished, there will be 25 people that will be notified that they are eligible to put EOD as their first choice at service assignment, and will be given an interview. You'll interview in front of a huge board of officers and enlisted folks that are from the EOD community. At this point, you either get a thumbs up or a thumbs down for selection. As far as I'm aware, it's the only community that decides on the spot whether or not you'll get it.

Let me know if you have more questions. I'm pretty familiar with both SEAL and EOD selection.

I did search but I didn’t find any recent opinions of what is good cell service on the yard and in Bancroft? I was wondering since I’m looking at changing providers for our family plan and prob want to make sure something g that has decent service in Annapolis.

This is actually a great question that few people think about! I know Verizon has good service all across the yard and through Bancroft. I know in the past Sprint and AT&T didn't get great service, but I think that issue has been fixed. I think you should be fine with whatever you have.

What advice do you have for a pleb that comes in fairly certain it’s Navy spec ops or USMC for them?

How do you keep both options open as you progress over the years. Or do you have to decide one vs the other as far as preparing to be selected by ?

How do you keep both options open?

The first piece of advice I would give is keep an open mind. Over half your class will want to go SEALS/EOD/USMC when you first get here. Everyone goes through their "maybe I'll do the SEAL screener" phase. I know tons and tons of people who said they were going to be SEALs and didn't even end up getting to the screener. I also know plenty of people that completed the screener and realized it wasn't for them. And then there's the people that just didn't get selected at all when service assignment came around. None of this is meant to discourage you -- just be realistic. You have to REALLY want it. And even then, there might be someone better than you that'll take the spot that you want. Read my previous post to learn about the selection process.

Keeping both options open is not hard. If you finish the SEAL screener and get selected for SOAS, your junior year summer you'll go to both SOAS and Leatherneck. Read below for what Leatherneck is and what the USMC selection process looks like. When service assignment comes around in September, if you make it through SOAS successfully, you'll be permitted to put SEALs as your first choice, and USMC as your second. If the SEAL community doesn't want you, you'll still be eligible to compete for a USMC spot.

The best tip I can give you to be competitive and/or prepare for both is to just be in good shape. Start training now.

Happy to answer anymore questions about this and get more specific! These questions were pretty broad so I tried to keep my answer as such.

FWIW -- with my PMP selection a big part of the competitiveness was documented and proven teaching experience / efficacy, so it makes me happy to read this. I'm sooooo excited to teach that I consistently need to remind myself not to look beyond the amazing opportunity I have for full-time PhD studies.

Congrats on being nearly finished.

Wow, congratulations! Becoming a PMP is extremely competitive. I'm not sure whether or not you're a grad, but if you're not, the only thing I'll say is that come here with the knowledge that midshipmen are extremely busy individuals who may not be able to allot as much time and focus as you'd like to your class. This might take some time to get used to, but rest assured that the majority of midshipmen are still willing to work hard and put in effort. However, obviously, as is the case at any school, this isn't always true. We're certainly not perfect, and you'll quickly find out that there's midshipmen here that probably belong somewhere else

Would you be able to elaborate on the selection process for MIDN who are hoping to commission in the USMC? I've tried poking around USNA's website to see if I can find more about the process but the most I've gotten is roughly *30% of the graduating class commission as Marines.

*this is the number I remember off the top of my head from my reading, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's wrong

I think the number ranges between 25 to 30%, so your estimate is correct.

If you'd like to commission USMC, there's a pretty clear-cut process. First, between your freshman year up to your junior year, there's a variety of USMC-focused extracurriculars, events, and summer trainings that you can take part in. These are good to do in order to show your interest and your desire to become a Marine. However, nothing is required of you -- I know many Marine-selects, including myself, that did not realize they wanted to be Marines until late junior year or early senior year.

Between your junior year and senior year summer, you're required to participate in a summer training called Leatherneck. It's about 3 to 4 weeks long, and is held in Quantico, VA, where The Basic School (TBS) takes place. This is an evaluation training, where they assess a variety of things, such as physical performance and leadership capability. You'll run through a series of evolutions that are designed to see whether or not you'll make the cut. It's not meant to be a training that is designed to make you quit -- it's simply designed to evaluate you. You'll be placed in a platoon of midshipmen, and everyone at some point will be placed in a leadership role. You'll spend several days in the field, where you'll run evolutions such as squad attacks and platoon attacks. You'll also do things like the endurance course, obstacle course, etc. You'll be familiarized with the attack planning process as well.

Your entire time at Leatherneck, you will have a Staff Platoon Commander (SPC), a Captain in the Marine Corps, that is evaluating you. Once Leatherneck is over, they will submit an evaluation to the Marine Detachment at USNA. Come service selection, you will be required to put Marine Corps as your first choice if you want to be selected. The only exceptions are for those who put SEALS or EOD as their first choice, and Marine Corps as their second. In November you'll find out if you got selected or not.

Let me know if you have more questions! Whether it be Leatherneck or summer training related, happy to help.

 

[justdoit19]

Something that comes up for discussion here occasionally, is OOM. And the “lack” of a factoring into that number the difficulty of the more challenging majors. What do you think about this?