I’m a firstie (senior) at Navy, ask me anything!

[Small Team Bacsi]

Good Sunday morning! As a parent we hope to protect our children from harm and trouble to the point that we wish upon ourselves things, if that would spared them from pain, I know this is neither possible nor recommended, fact: regardless of that, my DD moved forward and is currently an appointee. I like to think I’m not alone…
So I cringe at very time someone refers at their time in the Academy as a prison (reference first post) “can’t wait to get out” or the infamous “a terrible place to be but a great place to be from”. Then you think of the countless USNA videos showing what a great time your appointee will have, how unique and wonderful the environment will be once in. Is it that bad?!

I can answer this as a fellow parent

Have you ever watched those wonderful USMC recruiting videos showing those sharply dressed really happy Marines doing all kinds of infantry type of things?

Reality and videos can often be far apart.

Mine went to the academy, did not particularly enjoy the experience, nor did any of his close friends, mine actually hated being there until maybe senior year, But they sucked it up and graduated.

Now a second one is in the pipe line and they are enjoying the experience as much as our first one.

You need to forget the videos and concentrate on what you are going to say to yours who is thinking of quiting. (I say this just based on the numbers of those who think of quiting not yours as such)

At the prep school 1/3rd that start a year will not finish. At the academy some leave the first day before they take the oath.

If you are expecting the video version you are not being properly prepared.

 

[Capt MJ]

Good Sunday morning! As a parent we hope to protect our children from harm and trouble to the point that we wish upon ourselves things, if that would spared them from pain, I know this is neither possible nor recommended, fact: regardless of that, my DD moved forward and is currently an appointee. I like to think I’m not alone…
So I cringe at very time someone refers at their time in the Academy as a prison (reference first post) “can’t wait to get out” or the infamous “a terrible place to be but a great place to be from”. Then you think of the countless USNA videos showing what a great time your appointee will have, how unique and wonderful the environment will be once in. Is it that bad?!

It is traditional and absolutely normal for military to complain about pretty much everything, whether they are cadets and midshipmen or soldiers in the field or junior officers in a ship’s wardroom or Marines deployed in some world armpit. That is your context. The military is one big club, and one of the rules is, we all complain, whether green junior officer, young airman, veteran or midshipman/cadet. If you’re not in “the club,” it can be incomprehensible. I would do every bit of of my 26 years over again, even the awful parts. And still complain.

The website and videos, like any other college, market the brand that is a service academy, make no mistake about that. SAs are not perfect. Midshipmen and the officers and senior enlisted personnel assigned are not perfect. It is not a utopia where everyone feels uplifted and perfectly in tune with higher deals. It is a long slog, a relentless pressure-cooker, unimaginably hard and frustrating at times, yet it is that experience that polishes the steel that is required for SA graduates to go in harm’s way and lead others in an honorable and effective way.

There will be MANY moments of sheer joy and hilarity over the 4 years, many where the mid will pinch themselves and ask “am I really getting to do this,” and the like. SA grads who are former POWs specifically note the daily grind of PS, plebe year and the other 3 years as huge contributors to their ability to endure their time in the hands of enemy captors. If you’re in the cockpit of a plane with alarms going off, you will be able to focus on what is necessary, not panic and rely on training to get you through it - the foundation of which was the SA experience.

Midshipman cannot wait to get off the Yard, cannot wait for their Comm Day, because it is most definitely not the regular college experience. But they chose this path, and they leave well-equipped to deal with anything thrown their way. As the years go by, they realize the unique experiences and lifelong class bonds and friendships were worth it, hence the “bad place to be, good place to be from.”

My perspective is that of a non-USNA grad who has had a front row seat from a full career serving with officers from all commissioning sources, a tour on the Commandant’s staff, almost 40 years of marriage to a full-career grad, and 25+ years of sponsoring mids and spending hours with them talking through the tough times.

The “Real Mids” here will have a Yard-level view. They are bound at every turn by MidRegs, duty and “mandatory fun,” but they manage to find humor, friendship, love lives, pride, satisfaction, enjoyment, along with All The Stuff That Sucks.

The SA grads here will no doubt speak to how years of perspective have contributed to their thoughts about their SA years.

I have always said SA grads are by far the most professionally prepared to start their officer careers, and a big part of that is the 100% immersion and exposure from I-Day on. NROTC and Navy OCS grads are also high-quality individuals, very professionally prepared and competitively selected, but they have a bit of catch-up to do on the “immersion” stuff once commissioned, while USNA grads have to do their share of catch-up about learning to live on their own and how things work in the world. After a year or two, any commanding officer will tell you it’s all about performance, performance, performance, and the commissioning source effect has worn off.

 

[SandBaby]

It's my pleasure. And it's certainly an exciting time. It's been good, but I am more than ready to get out of this place.

Plebe Summer Questions:
-Pro tip: I am in no way shape or form encouraging this... However: All the "rules" during plebe summer, especially those regarding what you can and can't have/receive, are almost always followed just because plebes are scared to break them. Looking back and being on the other side of it, it would be super easy to even keep a phone during plebe summer. I DEFINITELY do not encourage that, though. That could go wrong in so many ways. Anyways, detailers cannot open your confidential locker in your room. If you want to receive things that are technically contraband like candy, energy/caffeine stuff, protein/supplements, flashlight, etc., have your parents/friends just put those things in an inconspicuous container. For example, have them put it in a granola bar box or something. I had my parents send me electrolyte tablets that had some caffeine, but they had been put into a container of the same brand that was labeled non-caffeinated. Also, it'll just depend on how thorough your detailers are, or if they even care. I knew a guy who received a huge container of protein and his detailer didn't care.
-The best thing I received or wished I received... this is a tough one. Honestly, letters are probably the best. Also, boxes with a bunch of random little things in it -- keeps it more fun.
-You are allowed to receive pictures. You'll have a little corkboard on your desk where you can put those up -- although I can't remember if we were allowed to put them up during plebe summer. You definitely can during the Ac Year
-I think there's a schedule for what rates you learn during what weeks. I'm sure some of it is company dependent. Seriously, don't worry about rates. Don't even think about studying it beforehand. Absolutely not worth it.
-Any personal items you bring during plebe summer will be confiscated and then returned to you once you're finished. As far as I can remember, personal items that you can keep usually end up being things like underwear, shoes, and toiletries. You'll get a ton of issued stuff that'll take up a lot of space. Your in the same style room in Bancroft once the Ac Year starts, so same amount of space. You'll have enough space for personal items, though.
-4th of July there's a fireworks show at night. Pretty fun time.
-You take an initial strength test (IST) around the first week or two, as far as I can remember. However, your official PRT isn't until the very end of plebe summer, so you'll have plenty of time to get in shape.
-You won't get medical exams during plebe summer. That's all through DODMERB before hand.
-Can't remember when academic placement tests happened, but I think it was pretty early on. Like first week or two.
-Class registration will happen towards the end of the summer. The majority of plebes will be taking very similar classes.
-For I Day, just be ready to rock n roll. If you're scared at all, just remember your detailers are literally just a couple years older than you. Run a lot but also take care of your body and don't get injured beforehand. Just have a positive attitude. It goes a long way. If you haven't read any of my previous responses: plebe summer is not hard. It's not designed to make you quit. Just smile (or don't, if you get yelled at for it) through it all and have a good time. Laugh about the things that happen. Know that your detailers are cracking up about how stupid plebes are after the night ends and they're all meeting up and talking about the day. Also -- don't take yourself too seriously. If you're squared away then everything else will fall into place. Also, never ever attempt to one-up your classmates. Don't even think in your head that you're better than them. Make a good impression and start making friends. Your companymates will be your friends for the next four years. Negative impressions/performance during plebe summer IS LASTING. People in my own company still have trouble overcoming their plebe summer performance if it was particularly bad.

Last Pro tip: all these are good questions and I had the same ones, but don't worry. You could show up empty handed to I day and be totally good. All the other questions you have, the detailers will have answers to, and the academy will make sure to walk you through step by step for everything. There will never be a time where you'll feel like you might've missed something.

Random Questions:
-You meet your assigned sponsor family towards the end of plebe summer. You all go to alumni hall, and your sponsor families are waiting.
-Favorite spots for plebes in DTA tend to be Chick&Ruth's, Iron Rooster, and the ice cream shops like Kilwins, Red Bean, Annapolis Ice Cream Company. Whenever you could buy tobacco at 18 the cigar shop was pretty popular too... now you have to be 21, obviously. Not in DTA, but the mall is a popular destination as well for plebes.
-I wish I ran more before I day. I was way slower than I would have liked when I showed up. I also wished I would've racked it into my brand that I'm not the sh!t, and I basically know nothing at all.
-if you have a tattoo you'll have to report it on I day. If you want to get a tattoo you'll have to submit a special request to get it approved.
-My favorite spot on the yard is the gate which gives me the ability to walk off of the yard. In all seriousness, I don't have one in particular. There's no "hang out" spots on the yard, really, besides the library or inside Bancroft. However, I have seen some people hang out by Triton light on Farragut, Hospital point, or anywhere along the water, really.
-Coolest place the Navy has taken me is Japan.
-I love my company for the friendships that it's given me that are unlike any I've had before. Some of the people I've met I know I'll stay in contact with for life. Things I don't like... my company is kind of split into several different cliques. It's not a big deal, though. People naturally find their own little friend groups within the company.

One sentence piece of advice: Keep an open mind, do things with a positive attitude even if they're absolute BS (let's be real -- a lot of plebe summer is BS), take advantage of every opportunity to do cool stuff, and don't burn bridges, especially early on. Work hard.

I can’t tell you how exciting it was to read this response. Thank you so so much! So cool!

 

[ders_dad]

FWIW, my 2/C DS says that PS was by far his best experience at USNA (so far) because it came close to meeting the hype and because he didn’t have to make any decisions other than to accept what was happening and do his best. So, don’t dread PS - embrace it.

Much of the rest of his nearly three years has been less than expected. Some (maybe a lot) of that was due to the COVID restrictions that cut the heart out of two years and he missed out on a lot of experiences and training he was looking forward to. Hopefully incoming plebes won’t have to endure that. Academics also turned out to be a bit of a disappointment- they are challenging because of all the other stuff you have to do but if you figure out time management - well, let’s just say they aren’t more difficult than a good state university.

 

[huntercrs]

Good Sunday morning! As a parent we hope to protect our children from harm and trouble to the point that we wish upon ourselves things, if that would spared them from pain, I know this is neither possible nor recommended, fact: regardless of that, my DD moved forward and is currently an appointee. I like to think I’m not alone…
So I cringe at very time someone refers at their time in the Academy as a prison (reference first post) “can’t wait to get out” or the infamous “a terrible place to be but a great place to be from”. Then you think of the countless USNA videos showing what a great time your appointee will have, how unique and wonderful the environment will be once in. Is it that bad?!

I don't think you're alone -- I'm sure that sentiment is shared by many parents. I'll try to address this from a few different perspectives.

First, I want to acknowledge that I'm just a kid who doesn't know much, so take my recommendations about how you should handle all of this with a grain of salt. With that said, I know a lot of USNA parents that seem to be FAR too involved in their child's life. This may not seem possible, but I think it is... I know parents who text classmates, email professors and company officers, and resort to "helicopter parenting" due to their concern for their child. USNA is not the place for children that need to be babied -- I think we all know that. As hard as it is, I think it's great to allow your child to be independent and learn on their own. That will be vital to their development as an officer. It's good to learn to be tough. That doesn't mean you can't be there for them, it just means give them the space to become their own person. For most mids, this is the first time they leave home.

One thing I think most parents AND appointees don't realize, is that the idea of USNA being a warfighting institution is alive and well. Your children will scream "kill" in response to commands over Plebe Summer, they will learn about "the enemy," and they will be taught that being an officer implies using extreme violence to impose your will upon those who stand in your way. This is the harsh reality of what goes on here. It's not an environment where children are coddled.

I think many midshipmen are quick to become cynical, because in the day to day motions of seemingly meaningless tasks, lectures, mandatory events, etc., it's easy to lose sight of why we are at the academy. They say it's a leadership institution, but I think many of us feel woefully undertrained and unprepared. They say we're warriors, but people are out of shape, don't care about school, and don't care about their character. Somehow, academics have become the primary means of evaluation of our performance at the academy.

The "unique and wonderful environment" certainly does exist. But, everything you see online in videos are just small snippets of what actually goes on here. The day to day life might be unique and novel at first, but the shininess of it all quickly wears off. Noon meal formations that tourists and parents marvel at are just another annoying mandatory event you have to do that's keeping you from doing homework. Parades take away much needed liberty time. Wearing summer whites on the weekends getting increasingly annoying when you can't go anywhere unrecognized, and you can't eat anything without your uniform getting dirty. You get the idea.

Now....Despite all of this, I don't know anyone who has regretted their decision to come here. Even those that DOR'd don't seem to have regretted the time they spent here, even though they chose to leave the institution. Ultimately, what makes this place bad is also what makes it good. The comradeship and esprit de corps that mutual suffering creates is indescribable. One will truly understand the meaning of a friendship after going through this place. You learn to appreciate the opportunities this place provides; the places you go, the people you hear speak, the grit that you develop. I can firmly say I've become a better person because of this place. However, I don't think it's because of the institution. It's because of the people I'm surrounded by.

As a whole, what makes USNA a great place is not the institution itself, but the people that it attracts. I have a certain fondness for the people around me and the people I hope to lead some day. I think the institution is flawed in so many ways, but I still know I made the right choice by coming here.

At the end of the day, all a midshipman can do is smile through it all and make the best of it. Some of my best memories that my friends and I laugh about are the memories of the worst times we had here. You just have to have fun with it.

Is it really that bad? It can be if you want it to be. It doesn't have to be if you choose for it not to be.

 

[huntercrs]

I can answer this as a fellow parent

Have you ever watched those wonderful USMC recruiting videos showing those sharply dressed really happy Marines doing all kinds of infantry type of things?

Reality and videos can often be far apart.

Mine went to the academy, did not particularly enjoy the experience, nor did any of his close friends, mine actually hated being there until maybe senior year, But they sucked it up and graduated.

Now a second one is in the pipe line and they are enjoying the experience as much as our first one.

You need to forget the videos and concentrate on what you are going to say to yours who is thinking of quiting. (I say this just based on the numbers of those who think of quiting not yours as such)

At the prep school 1/3rd that start a year will not finish. At the academy some leave the first day before they take the oath.

If you are expecting the video version you are not being properly prepared.

This is a great response. The videos online only show the good. To an outsider, even a day in the life video showing all of the things midshipmen consider mundane and annoying would probably seem really cool, unique, and fun. Regardless of how much it sucks, it's worth it because of the people.

 

[Capt MJ]

I don't think you're alone -- I'm sure that sentiment is shared by many parents. I'll try to address this from a few different perspectives.

First, I want to acknowledge that I'm just a kid who doesn't know much, so take my recommendations about how you should handle all of this with a grain of salt. With that said, I know a lot of USNA parents that seem to be FAR too involved in their child's life. This may not seem possible, but I think it is... I know parents who text classmates, email professors and company officers, and resort to "helicopter parenting" due to their concern for their child. USNA is not the place for children that need to be babied -- I think we all know that. As hard as it is, I think it's great to allow your child to be independent and learn on their own. That will be vital to their development as an officer. It's good to learn to be tough. That doesn't mean you can't be there for them, it just means give them the space to become their own person. For most mids, this is the first time they leave home.

One thing I think most parents AND appointees don't realize, is that the idea of USNA being a warfighting institution is alive and well. Your children will scream "kill" in response to commands over Plebe Summer, they will learn about "the enemy," and they will be taught that being an officer implies using extreme violence to impose your will upon those who stand in your way. This is the harsh reality of what goes on here. It's not an environment where children are coddled.

On the other hand, I think many midshipmen are quick to become cynical, because in the day to day motions of seemingly meaningless tasks, lectures, mandatory events, etc., it's easy to lose sight of why we are at the academy. They say it's a leadership institution, but I think many of us feel woefully undertrained and unprepared. They say we're warriors, but people are out of shape, don't care about school, and don't care about their character. Somehow, academics have become the primary means of evaluation of our performance at the academy.

The "unique and wonderful environment" certainly does exist. But, everything you see online in videos are just small snippets of what actually goes on here. The day to day life might be unique and novel at first, but the shininess of it all quickly wears off. Noon meal formations that tourists and parents marvel at are just another annoying mandatory event you have to do that's keeping you from doing homework. Parades take away much needed liberty time. Wearing summer whites on the weekends getting increasingly annoying when you can't go anywhere unrecognized, and you can't eat anything without your uniform getting dirty. You get the idea.

Now....Despite all of this, I don't know anyone who has regretted their decision to come here. Even those that DOR'd don't seem to have regretted the time they spent here, even though they chose to leave the institution. Ultimately, what makes this place bad is also what makes it good. The comradeship and esprit de corps that mutual suffering creates is indescribable. One will truly understand the meaning of a friendship after going through this place. You learn to appreciate the opportunities this place provides; the places you go, the people you hear speak, the grit that you develop. I can firmly say I've become a better person because of this place. However, I don't think it's because of the institution. It's because of the people I'm surrounded by.

As a whole, what makes USNA a great place is not the institution itself, but the people that it attracts. I have a certain fondness for the people around me and the people I hope to lead some day. I think the institution is flaws in so many ways, but I still know I made the right choice by coming here.

At the end of the day, all a midshipman can do is smile through it all and make the best of it. Some of my best memories that my friends and I laugh about are the memories of the worst times we had here. You just have to have fun with it.

Is it really that bad? It can be if you want it to be. It doesn't have to be if you choose for it not to be.

Brilliant, insightful, balanced. Ready for butter bars!

Great comments about the parents who can’t resist stepping in unnecessarily. They do their sons and daughters such a disservice, depriving them of opportunities to learn to advocate for themselves, find solutions, navigate f2f challenges and interpersonal issues.

 

[huntercrs]

It is traditional and absolutely normal for military to complain about pretty much everything, whether they are cadets and midshipmen or soldiers in the field or junior officers in a ship’s wardroom or Marines deployed in some world armpit. That is your context. The military is one big club, and one of the rules is, we all complain, whether green junior officer, young airman, veteran or midshipman/cadet. If you’re not in “the club,” it can be incomprehensible. I would do every bit of of my 26 years over again, even the awful parts. And still complain.

The website and videos, like any other college, market the brand that is a service academy, make no mistake about that. SAs are not perfect. Midshipmen and the officers and senior enlisted personnel assigned are not perfect. It is not a utopia where everyone feels uplifted and perfectly in tune with higher deals. It is a long slog, a relentless pressure-cooker, unimaginably hard and frustrating at times, yet it is that experience that polishes the steel that is required for SA graduates to go in harm’s way and lead others in an honorable and effective way.

There will be MANY moments of sheer joy and hilarity over the 4 years, many where the mid will pinch themselves and ask “am I really getting to do this,” and the like. SA grads who are former POWs specifically note the daily grind of PS, plebe year and the other 3 years as huge contributors to their ability to endure their time in the hands of enemy captors. If you’re in the cockpit of a plane with alarms going off, you will be able to focus on what is necessary, not panic and rely on training to get you through it - the foundation of which was the SA experience.

Midshipman cannot wait to get off the Yard, cannot wait for their Comm Day, because it is most definitely not the regular college experience. But they chose this path, and they leave well-equipped to deal with anything thrown their way. As the years go by, they realize the unique experiences and lifelong class bonds and friendships were worth it, hence the “bad place to be, good place to be from.”

My perspective is that of a non-USNA grad who has had a front row seat from a full career serving with officers from all commissioning sources, a tour on the Commandant’s staff, almost 40 years of marriage to a full-career grad, and 25+ years of sponsoring mids and spending hours with them talking through the tough times.

The “Real Mids” here will have a Yard-level view. They are bound at every turn by MidRegs, duty and “mandatory fun,” but they manage to find humor, friendship, love lives, pride, satisfaction, enjoyment, along with All The Stuff That Sucks.

The SA grads here will no doubt speak to how years of perspective have contributed to their thoughts about their SA years.

I have always said SA grads are by far the most professionally prepared to start their officer careers, and a big part of that is the 100% immersion and exposure from I-Day on. NROTC and Navy OCS grads are also high-quality individuals, very professionally prepared and competitively selected, but they have a bit of catch-up to do on the “immersion” stuff once commissioned, while USNA grads have to do their share of catch-up about learning to live on their own and how things work in the world. After a year or two, any commanding officer will tell you it’s all about performance, performance, performance, and the commissioning source effect has worn off.

This is very insightful, even to me. I agree -- some of the best stories I can tell about the academy are just me complaining... and it's awesome. It's often terrible and the suffering seems meaningless at times, but it always seems to somehow be worth it. I think I realize how lucky I am when I talk to my high school classmates who are about to start working in some corporate office. Not to undermine their accomplishments, but I feel like I'm actually DOING something. I've had four years of INSANITY to look back on. Experiences and friendships that most people will never know in their lives.

One thing I think the academy has taught me is to learn to quickly see what's important and what's not. We're not robotic O1's when we hit the fleet. We can see through the BS and bureaucracy, because we've had four years of dealing with it.

 

[Old Enlisted Marine]

I learned along time ago, when your Marines or Sailors stop complaining it’s time to worry!

 

[Goal2004]

I can answer this as a fellow parent

Have you ever watched those wonderful USMC recruiting videos showing those sharply dressed really happy Marines doing all kinds of infantry type of things?

Reality and videos can often be far apart.

Mine went to the academy, did not particularly enjoy the experience, nor did any of his close friends, mine actually hated being there until maybe senior year, But they sucked it up and graduated.

Now a second one is in the pipe line and they are enjoying the experience as much as our first one.

You need to forget the videos and concentrate on what you are going to say to yours who is thinking of quiting. (I say this just based on the numbers of those who think of quiting not yours as such)

At the prep school 1/3rd that start a year will not finish. At the academy some leave the first day before they take the oath.

If you are expecting the video version you are not being properly prepared.

Thank you, not at all expecting the USNA video version, although @Capt MJ glee, pipe and drum and seasonal concerts at the chapel videos seem like a fun time for the mids. But you are right, I like to be ready and know what to say to my future mid when and if the time comes. I am somehow familiar with military life, my DS is in the Army (not from WP), stationed far from home. He can’t imagine himself away from the order and structure of his military life.
For your reply I assume it’s not that terrible when your second child decided to go for it too!

 

[huntercrs]

Thank you, not at all expecting the USNA video version, although @Capt MJ glee, pipe and drum and seasonal concerts at the chapel videos seem like a fun time for the mids. But you are right, I like to be ready and know what to say to my future mid when and if the time comes. I am somehow familiar with military life, my DS is in the Army (not from WP), stationed far from home. He can’t imagine himself away from the order and structure of his military life.
For your reply I assume it’s not that terrible when your second child decided to go for it too!

haha! I actually think it would be cool if midshipmen enjoyed events like glee/pipes and drums/seasonal concerts. Unfortunately, you will almost NEVER catch midshipmen at events on the yards unless it's a big sporting event or it's mandatory (this is very common). Most events are for the public... I don't know a single midshipman that's attended a concert here without being forced to go, unless it was the Brigade concert that happens once or twice a year, where they bring in some big name artists. Maybe you're daughter can start a new trend and convince her friends to go with her.

I think one of the most strange aspects of our school that might explain why what I wrote above is the case, is that within the walls of the Yard, midshipmen have extremely low levels of school spirit. It's almost hilarious. We groan and complain when we have mandatory events, bodies are scarce at pep rallies, and most people don't even want to go to home football games which are mandatory. But, off the yard, especially around civilians and such, there's an immense amount of pride that comes with going to USNA. Once inside the football stadium, though, school spirit is high. A lot of this probably has to do with the fact that we have such little free time that anything that takes away from it seems like a nuisance. Weird dynamic for sure.

I apologize if anything I've said is discouraging. I'm just trying to be as honest as possible. With all that said and done, your daughter is in for an amazing time. She'll treasure the memories she makes here forever, and you get to be a part of that. She made the right choice.

 

[Goal2004]

It is traditional and absolutely normal for military to complain about pretty much everything, whether they are cadets and midshipmen or soldiers in the field or junior officers in a ship’s wardroom or Marines deployed in some world armpit. That is your context. The military is one big club, and one of the rules is, we all complain, whether green junior officer, young airman, veteran or midshipman/cadet. If you’re not in “the club,” it can be incomprehensible. I would do every bit of of my 26 years over again, even the awful parts. And still complain.

The website and videos, like any other college, market the brand that is a service academy, make no mistake about that. SAs are not perfect. Midshipmen and the officers and senior enlisted personnel assigned are not perfect. It is not a utopia where everyone feels uplifted and perfectly in tune with higher deals. It is a long slog, a relentless pressure-cooker, unimaginably hard and frustrating at times, yet it is that experience that polishes the steel that is required for SA graduates to go in harm’s way and lead others in an honorable and effective way.

There will be MANY moments of sheer joy and hilarity over the 4 years, many where the mid will pinch themselves and ask “am I really getting to do this,” and the like. SA grads who are former POWs specifically note the daily grind of PS, plebe year and the other 3 years as huge contributors to their ability to endure their time in the hands of enemy captors. If you’re in the cockpit of a plane with alarms going off, you will be able to focus on what is necessary, not panic and rely on training to get you through it - the foundation of which was the SA experience.

Midshipman cannot wait to get off the Yard, cannot wait for their Comm Day, because it is most definitely not the regular college experience. But they chose this path, and they leave well-equipped to deal with anything thrown their way. As the years go by, they realize the unique experiences and lifelong class bonds and friendships were worth it, hence the “bad place to be, good place to be from.”

My perspective is that of a non-USNA grad who has had a front row seat from a full career serving with officers from all commissioning sources, a tour on the Commandant’s staff, almost 40 years of marriage to a full-career grad, and 25+ years of sponsoring mids and spending hours with them talking through the tough times.

The “Real Mids” here will have a Yard-level view. They are bound at every turn by MidRegs, duty and “mandatory fun,” but they manage to find humor, friendship, love lives, pride, satisfaction, enjoyment, along with All The Stuff That Sucks.

The SA grads here will no doubt speak to how years of perspective have contributed to their thoughts about their SA years.

I have always said SA grads are by far the most professionally prepared to start their officer careers, and a big part of that is the 100% immersion and exposure from I-Day on. NROTC and Navy OCS grads are also high-quality individuals, very professionally prepared and competitively selected, but they have a bit of catch-up to do on the “immersion” stuff once commissioned, while USNA grads have to do their share of catch-up about learning to live on their own and how things work in the world. After a year or two, any commanding officer will tell you it’s all about performance, performance, performance, and the commissioning source effect has worn off.

As always, great insights and explanations. It is true, in life we should be able to find the humor in every situation and that’s the best advise I can give to my incoming DD. She’s very conscious that things will get tough, but she also knows that once out and after she endured a preparation like no other, she’ll be far better than many of her HS classmates that are choosing to stay in the community college at home. She has prepare for it and (was it you that said) the SAs have been doing this admission process for so long that at this point they know exactly what they are looking for in a candidate. I’m confident that she’ll be fine.

 

[Goal2004]

I don't think you're alone -- I'm sure that sentiment is shared by many parents. I'll try to address this from a few different perspectives.

First, I want to acknowledge that I'm just a kid who doesn't know much, so take my recommendations about how you should handle all of this with a grain of salt. With that said, I know a lot of USNA parents that seem to be FAR too involved in their child's life. This may not seem possible, but I think it is... I know parents who text classmates, email professors and company officers, and resort to "helicopter parenting" due to their concern for their child. USNA is not the place for children that need to be babied -- I think we all know that. As hard as it is, I think it's great to allow your child to be independent and learn on their own. That will be vital to their development as an officer. It's good to learn to be tough. That doesn't mean you can't be there for them, it just means give them the space to become their own person. For most mids, this is the first time they leave home.

One thing I think most parents AND appointees don't realize, is that the idea of USNA being a warfighting institution is alive and well. Your children will scream "kill" in response to commands over Plebe Summer, they will learn about "the enemy," and they will be taught that being an officer implies using extreme violence to impose your will upon those who stand in your way. This is the harsh reality of what goes on here. It's not an environment where children are coddled.

I think many midshipmen are quick to become cynical, because in the day to day motions of seemingly meaningless tasks, lectures, mandatory events, etc., it's easy to lose sight of why we are at the academy. They say it's a leadership institution, but I think many of us feel woefully undertrained and unprepared. They say we're warriors, but people are out of shape, don't care about school, and don't care about their character. Somehow, academics have become the primary means of evaluation of our performance at the academy.

The "unique and wonderful environment" certainly does exist. But, everything you see online in videos are just small snippets of what actually goes on here. The day to day life might be unique and novel at first, but the shininess of it all quickly wears off. Noon meal formations that tourists and parents marvel at are just another annoying mandatory event you have to do that's keeping you from doing homework. Parades take away much needed liberty time. Wearing summer whites on the weekends getting increasingly annoying when you can't go anywhere unrecognized, and you can't eat anything without your uniform getting dirty. You get the idea.

Now....Despite all of this, I don't know anyone who has regretted their decision to come here. Even those that DOR'd don't seem to have regretted the time they spent here, even though they chose to leave the institution. Ultimately, what makes this place bad is also what makes it good. The comradeship and esprit de corps that mutual suffering creates is indescribable. One will truly understand the meaning of a friendship after going through this place. You learn to appreciate the opportunities this place provides; the places you go, the people you hear speak, the grit that you develop. I can firmly say I've become a better person because of this place. However, I don't think it's because of the institution. It's because of the people I'm surrounded by.

As a whole, what makes USNA a great place is not the institution itself, but the people that it attracts. I have a certain fondness for the people around me and the people I hope to lead some day. I think the institution is flawed in so many ways, but I still know I made the right choice by coming here.

At the end of the day, all a midshipman can do is smile through it all and make the best of it. Some of my best memories that my friends and I laugh about are the memories of the worst times we had here. You just have to have fun with it.

Is it really that bad? It can be if you want it to be. It doesn't have to be if you choose for it not to be.

Thank you for taking the time of thinking through what to reply. To me you are not “just a kid” but an individual that has achieved something that just a small percentage had, otherwise I would have not posted a question to you. I highly respect your honest advise.
I disagree with “helicopter parenting” as I mentioned before my DS it’s been in the military for years now soon renovating his contract, but it was different, he graduated from college, took himself to the recruiter and he was gone with almost zero involvement from our part
I’m sure your parents are extremely proud of you and what you had accomplished, they probably supported and helped you during your high school years to become a competitive candidate and then received with joy your appointment. See, as much as is otherwise advise, we the parents play a roll of involvement in the formation of a candidate, that’s what we did when after the summer before 10th grade our DD declared the USNA as her one and only choice for college. Moving forward and just counting the weeks before I Day the guilt and the doubts are troubling me, did we do right supporting this dream of her? We took her to see other universities and she was accepted to the ones she applied for, as her plan B…did we do the right thing just allowing her to dismiss those acceptances when her appointment showed up in her portal? Selfish me will be able to spend more time together, shopping, vacations etc but I did not think that way until now What are we going to do if she calls frustrated and feeling trapped, regretting her decision. Will I be able to deal with the guilt of promoting and helping her get there? So conscious me know that it will be hard, but my heart wants to believe in the USNA marketing videos. I want to believe that all parents, at some point during those 4 years, question themselves about facilitating the road to the SAs

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

Thank you, not at all expecting the USNA video version, although @Capt MJ glee, pipe and drum and seasonal concerts at the chapel videos seem like a fun time for the mids. But you are right, I like to be ready and know what to say to my future mid when and if the time comes. I am somehow familiar with military life, my DS is in the Army (not from WP), stationed far from home. He can’t imagine himself away from the order and structure of his military life.
For your reply I assume it’s not that terrible when your second child decided to go for it too!

I am a minor expert on what to say if the time comes.

Both of mine talked seriously about leaving——prep school and academy. But that passed. We just never gave in. We as a family never made it easy for them to quit, we made them aware of how much this decision to leave would cost them in terms of future $$ and school loans.



In both instances the desire to quit went away. We did not argue staying four or five years but finishing the semester or finishing the year. They still complained after but more a healthy salty complaining.

For many of these kids they have never known defeat, being in trouble, struggling , being away from home, ——while they can see on social media their HS friends at the beach and truly enjoying life and freedom——as long as they don’t act on that first decision to quit IMO they have gone a long way toward graduation.

 

[Goal2004]

Brilliant, insightful, balanced. Ready for butter bars!

Great comments about the parents who can’t resist stepping in unnecessarily. They do their sons and daughters such a disservice, depriving them of opportunities to learn to advocate for themselves, find solutions, navigate f2f challenges and interpersonal

I am a minor expert on what to say if the time comes.

Both of mine talked seriously about leaving——prep school and academy. But that passed. We just never gave in. We as a family never made it easy for them to quit, we made them aware of how much this decision to leave would cost them in terms of future $$ and school loans.



In both instances the desire to quit went away. We did not argue staying four or five years but finishing the semester or finishing the year. They still complained after but more a healthy salty complaining.

For many of these kids they have never known defeat, being in trouble, struggling , being away from home, ——while they can see on social media their HS friends at the beach and truly enjoying life and freedom——as long as they don’t act on that first decision to quit IMO they have gone a long way toward graduation.

Thank you

 

[Old Enlisted Marine]

Thank you for taking the time of thinking through what to reply. To me you are not “just a kid” but an individual that has achieved something that just a small percentage had, otherwise I would have not posted a question to you. I highly respect your honest advise.
I disagree with “helicopter parenting” as I mentioned before my DS it’s been in the military for years now soon renovating his contract, but it was different, he graduated from college, took himself to the recruiter and he was gone with almost zero involvement from our part
I’m sure your parents are extremely proud of you and what you had accomplished, they probably supported and helped you during your high school years to become a competitive candidate and then received with joy your appointment. See, as much as is otherwise advise, we the parents play a roll of involvement in the formation of a candidate, that’s what we did when after the summer before 10th grade our DD declared the USNA as her one and only choice for college. Moving forward and just counting the weeks before I Day the guilt and the doubts are troubling me, did we do right supporting this dream of her? We took her to see other universities and she was accepted to the ones she applied for, as her plan B…did we do the right thing just allowing her to dismiss those acceptances when her appointment showed up in her portal? Selfish me will be able to spend more time together, shopping, vacations etc but I did not think that way until now What are we going to do if she calls frustrated and feeling trapped, regretting her decision. Will I be able to deal with the guilt of promoting and helping her get there? So conscious me know that it will be hard, but my heart wants to believe in the USNA marketing videos. I want to believe that all parents, at some point during those 4 years, question themselves about facilitating the road to the SAs

I’ll say this my DS is very happy at USNA however he embraces “the suck” when it comes. He is one of those guys who can make any crapshow a fun event. But he did come from an odd bunch we call family! I am in awe of these guys and gals who step up and continue to serve.

 

[Goal2004]

I’ll say this my DS is very happy at USNA however he embraces “the suck” when it comes. He is one of those guys who can make any crapshow a fun event. But he did come from an odd bunch we call family! I am in awe of these guys and gals who step up and continue to serve.

Agree that a dysfunctional family and crazy parents are very helpful

 

[Old Enlisted Marine]

I worry about those “normal” families

 

[OldRetSWO]

With that said, I know a lot of USNA parents that seem to be FAR too involved in their child's life. This may not seem possible, but I think it is... I know parents who text classmates, email professors and company officers, and resort to "helicopter parenting" due to their concern for their child. USNA is not the place for children that need to be babied -- I think we all know that. As hard as it is, I think it's great to allow your child to be independent and learn on their own. That will be vital to their development as an officer. It's good to learn to be tough. That doesn't mean you can't be there for them, it just means give them the space to become their own person. For most mids, this is the first time they leave home.

This is absolutely on target. I'm a grad AND for a short time, a former coach at USNA so I really had a decent angle on the place. When Son #2 (of 4 kids) decided in 7th grade that he wanted to go to USNA, I looked at his grades and extracurriculars with him and told him what had to change. Because I knew and had seen so many classmates drop out because they were there for their parents wishes, I made a conscious decision to step away from his preps and candidacy. . . really. Of course I welcomed good grades, sports successes, etc as you would expect but avoided pushing Navy to him. HE did his application and asked for help to get to DoDMERB, interviews, etc which his stepmom and I gave when needed. For much of the time, I was still a drilling reservist and travelling a significant amount of my time for work so I really wasn't even around to do much hovering even if I wanted to. OF course I was proud when he got admitted but I still avoided getting my nose into his life there even though the Superintendent at the time was my Classmate as were several other major figures within the yard. I never spoke to his (SWO) company officer other than saying hello during the Plebe Summer tour. I did get to know his roommates and a couple of his friends but contact was minimal.

Imagine my surprise when I was invited to be the guest speaker at their company dining out a month before they graduated! A very proud moment for both of us which I never expected since I really stayed out of "their" business.

Of course it is hard as a parent to avoid getting in the middle of things when you did it throughout their younger lives but USNA is a very different stage of life from what came before. I took great pride in what I saw from afar and quite honestly, I still just about burst my buttons when a classmate asks me about my son and relates that they'd met him at a tailgate, athletic event or other USNA related thing.

 

[Gabe_]

I don't think you're alone -- I'm sure that sentiment is shared by many parents. I'll try to address this from a few different perspectives.

First, I want to acknowledge that I'm just a kid who doesn't know much, so take my recommendations about how you should handle all of this with a grain of salt. With that said, I know a lot of USNA parents that seem to be FAR too involved in their child's life. This may not seem possible, but I think it is... I know parents who text classmates, email professors and company officers, and resort to "helicopter parenting" due to their concern for their child. USNA is not the place for children that need to be babied -- I think we all know that. As hard as it is, I think it's great to allow your child to be independent and learn on their own. That will be vital to their development as an officer. It's good to learn to be tough. That doesn't mean you can't be there for them, it just means give them the space to become their own person. For most mids, this is the first time they leave home.

One thing I think most parents AND appointees don't realize, is that the idea of USNA being a warfighting institution is alive and well. Your children will scream "kill" in response to commands over Plebe Summer, they will learn about "the enemy," and they will be taught that being an officer implies using extreme violence to impose your will upon those who stand in your way. This is the harsh reality of what goes on here. It's not an environment where children are coddled.

I think many midshipmen are quick to become cynical, because in the day to day motions of seemingly meaningless tasks, lectures, mandatory events, etc., it's easy to lose sight of why we are at the academy. They say it's a leadership institution, but I think many of us feel woefully undertrained and unprepared. They say we're warriors, but people are out of shape, don't care about school, and don't care about their character. Somehow, academics have become the primary means of evaluation of our performance at the academy.

The "unique and wonderful environment" certainly does exist. But, everything you see online in videos are just small snippets of what actually goes on here. The day to day life might be unique and novel at first, but the shininess of it all quickly wears off. Noon meal formations that tourists and parents marvel at are just another annoying mandatory event you have to do that's keeping you from doing homework. Parades take away much needed liberty time. Wearing summer whites on the weekends getting increasingly annoying when you can't go anywhere unrecognized, and you can't eat anything without your uniform getting dirty. You get the idea.

Now....Despite all of this, I don't know anyone who has regretted their decision to come here. Even those that DOR'd don't seem to have regretted the time they spent here, even though they chose to leave the institution. Ultimately, what makes this place bad is also what makes it good. The comradeship and esprit de corps that mutual suffering creates is indescribable. One will truly understand the meaning of a friendship after going through this place. You learn to appreciate the opportunities this place provides; the places you go, the people you hear speak, the grit that you develop. I can firmly say I've become a better person because of this place. However, I don't think it's because of the institution. It's because of the people I'm surrounded by.

As a whole, what makes USNA a great place is not the institution itself, but the people that it attracts. I have a certain fondness for the people around me and the people I hope to lead some day. I think the institution is flawed in so many ways, but I still know I made the right choice by coming here.

At the end of the day, all a midshipman can do is smile through it all and make the best of it. Some of my best memories that my friends and I laugh about are the memories of the worst times we had here. You just have to have fun with it.

Is it really that bad? It can

I don't think you're alone -- I'm sure that sentiment is shared by many parents. I'll try to address this from a few different perspectives.

First, I want to acknowledge that I'm just a kid who doesn't know much, so take my recommendations about how you should handle all of this with a grain of salt. With that said, I know a lot of USNA parents that seem to be FAR too involved in their child's life. This may not seem possible, but I think it is... I know parents who text classmates, email professors and company officers, and resort to "helicopter parenting" due to their concern for their child. USNA is not the place for children that need to be babied -- I think we all know that. As hard as it is, I think it's great to allow your child to be independent and learn on their own. That will be vital to their development as an officer. It's good to learn to be tough. That doesn't mean you can't be there for them, it just means give them the space to become their own person. For most mids, this is the first time they leave home.

One thing I think most parents AND appointees don't realize, is that the idea of USNA being a warfighting institution is alive and well. Your children will scream "kill" in response to commands over Plebe Summer, they will learn about "the enemy," and they will be taught that being an officer implies using extreme violence to impose your will upon those who stand in your way. This is the harsh reality of what goes on here. It's not an environment where children are coddled.

I think many midshipmen are quick to become cynical, because in the day to day motions of seemingly meaningless tasks, lectures, mandatory events, etc., it's easy to lose sight of why we are at the academy. They say it's a leadership institution, but I think many of us feel woefully undertrained and unprepared. They say we're warriors, but people are out of shape, don't care about school, and don't care about their character. Somehow, academics have become the primary means of evaluation of our performance at the academy.

The "unique and wonderful environment" certainly does exist. But, everything you see online in videos are just small snippets of what actually goes on here. The day to day life might be unique and novel at first, but the shininess of it all quickly wears off. Noon meal formations that tourists and parents marvel at are just another annoying mandatory event you have to do that's keeping you from doing homework. Parades take away much needed liberty time. Wearing summer whites on the weekends getting increasingly annoying when you can't go anywhere unrecognized, and you can't eat anything without your uniform getting dirty. You get the idea.

Now....Despite all of this, I don't know anyone who has regretted their decision to come here. Even those that DOR'd don't seem to have regretted the time they spent here, even though they chose to leave the institution. Ultimately, what makes this place bad is also what makes it good. The comradeship and esprit de corps that mutual suffering creates is indescribable. One will truly understand the meaning of a friendship after going through this place. You learn to appreciate the opportunities this place provides; the places you go, the people you hear speak, the grit that you develop. I can firmly say I've become a better person because of this place. However, I don't think it's because of the institution. It's because of the people I'm surrounded by.

As a whole, what makes USNA a great place is not the institution itself, but the people that it attracts. I have a certain fondness for the people around me and the people I hope to lead some day. I think the institution is flawed in so many ways, but I still know I made the right choice by coming here.

At the end of the day, all a midshipman can do is smile through it all and make the best of it. Some of my best memories that my friends and I laugh about are the memories of the worst times we had here. You just have to have fun with it.

Is it really that bad? It can be if you want it to be. It doesn't have to be if you choose for it not to be.

be if you want it to be. It doesn't have to be if you choose for it not to b

Wow! Your insight and ability to communicate the nuances of what the USNA experience is like, is remarkable. I'm just a dad of a 2nd Class Mid. Your responses are like listening to my DD and her friends when they sit around and share stories. You communicate it all so well. It will be hard for them to digest, but you have given new parents and P2B an accurate depiction of the ride to come. Thank you and best of luck the rest of the rest of firstie year, and beyond. I have no doubt you will be successful. Best!