If not here, where? If not us, who?

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tryingmybest

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I am disappointed that the moderators chose to keep up a discussion about the events of 1/6 for several days - just long enough to put out a multitude of conspiracy theories, false equivalencies, and attacks only to close it down. This is the off topic discussion and debates are welcome as long as they are civil. I believe it was civil, and it could have been controlled with moderators keeping the guiderails on. Of course, I may have missed threads that were deleted, but if that is the case then what has been determined to be "valid" to be left up is terrifying to me.

The thread had multiple references to media manipulation and the lack of discourse in America to see the other side, and yet a thread to discuss this where people might possibly be exposed to differences of opinions outside of their echo chambers is shut down. That implies that this forum is part of that echo chamber. This is our history happening in real time. The events, what preceded them and the consequences will impact all of us. All young adults at the service academies and all those who serve will face the consequences of this "patriotic rally", "civic duty", "protest", "riot", "domestic terrorism", "sedition" or "attempted coup" - choose a label but the threat to our country and our service members from threats outside of our country will be the same. This directly impacts those who are serving. I think this is certainly a valuable and relevant topic for this forum and for people who come from all walks of life and all political positions to discuss. If not here, where?

To future candidates to the academies as well as all members and families, I would hope you are not getting the impression from what was left up in the thread that the academies and active/retired military are filled with sympathizers to the cause of what happened. It scares me that people who jump in to deflect, blame other groups, provide dangerous whataboutisms, and downplay the crimes of 1/6 are our future officers, current officers, representatives of our armed forces, and the voices of this forum. It terrifies me that this forum may turn off amazing leaders and future defenders of our constitution out of fear that they don't belong, and attract political extremists who feel that they have found a welcoming place to grow their ideology.
 
Off-Topic discussions reflect the conversations, reporting, opinions and rhetoric flowing from every source, readily available to anyone with access to any kind of device, including Facebook with their own families. I am not surprised we have a wide disparity of opinions and the same polarized elements from every perspective, as well as more centrist comments. That accurately reflects the fact people in uniform or veterans or applicants or their families all hold a wide variety of beliefs about current events. I would hope applicants do their best to research supported facts and come to conclusions that make sense, realizing SAF is a public forum reflecting a cross-section of beliefs.

During my time in uniform, I met many who held extreme beliefs, to me. During my time at USNA on staff and through years of sponsoring, I met many midshipmen who varied widely in their beliefs, learned from their families or other sources. I have no doubt there have been lively discussions in Bancroft Hall.

The culture here is fairly tolerant of widely varying opinions in Off-Topic, but when comments become personalized to other posters, and name-calling is imminent, and the tone veering toward uncivil, the mods stamp on it hard.

Civil discourse and disagreement is the goal. I could assert the moon is made of green cheese, but if I add “you effing moron” in my response to another poster, for example, I should be banned. When the entire thread starts showing that tone, it should be closed down. It is a fact that thread happened, so leaving it up makes sense in a way, testifying to the hotness of the topic.

I am doing my best to understand what happened, how and why, sorting out fact from fiction. And being sad that it did.
 
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It was up for ‘several days’, and I enjoyed reading. I like to see other points of view. Increase my understanding of different points of view.

I hadn’t read it for a while. Headed over after reading OP’s post, suprised that something that had ‘civil discussion’ was shut down. BC that’s not my experience here. Civil discourse occurs. And I personally appreciate this. Instead of being spoon fed a certain narrative. Something I personally enjoy about this forum.

It was shut down for exactly that... LACK of civil discussion. Don’t need to be name calling or hurling personal insults to posters. That’s not allowed. There was a warning. Then it was locked. That’s how I see it.

It wasnt civil. And Mods shouldn’t have to babysit a thread. They aren’t paid enough for that.
 
justdoit19 said:
It was up for ‘several days’, and I enjoyed reading. I like to see other points of view. Increase my understanding of different points of view.

I hadn’t read it for a while. Headed over after reading OP’s post, suprised that something that had ‘civil discussion’ was shut down. BC that’s not my experience here. Civil discourse occurs. And I personally appreciate this. Instead of being spoon fed a certain narrative. Something I personally enjoy about this forum.

It was shut down for exactly that... LACK of civil discussion. Don’t need to be name calling or hurling personal insults to posters. That’s not allowed. There was a warning. Then it was locked. That’s how I see it.

It wasnt civil. And Mods shouldn’t have to babysit a thread. They aren’t paid enough for that.
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I thought the mods should have shut it down sooner.

I didn’t like the tone, and tried to walk away from it.

We have to be careful to respect the perspectives of others. Narratives shouldn’t be created and accepted before proper investigation. What some think was wrong, actually ends up being right with time.
 
A1Janitor said:
I thought the mods should have shut it down sooner.

I didn’t like the tone, and tried to walk away from it.

We have to be careful to respect the perspectives of others. Narratives shouldn’t be created and accepted before proper investigation. What some think was wrong, actually ends up being right with time.
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Interesting take after you created, and provided false evidence. In the name of open discourse the thread being left open would have been helpful so that posters could come back and apologize for jumping to conclusions and creating false enemies. It is convenient that you are able to pivot the tone and cleanse the narrative to "be careful to respect the perspectives of others." and "Narratives shouldn't be created and accepted..." when your voice was heard and you were able to create a "truth" before a proper investigation, but others were silenced. I also find your last line chilling.

My issue and my objection to the post being closed is that some members (ahem....) were able to create the tone by early posts while others were processing and trying to gather facts/information before joining the discussion. As the smoke cleared, real evidence surfaced (video, first person accounts, written evidence of intent), false flags debunked, and implications for our current and future active duty military leaders came into focus the thread is closed down and discussions ceased. I appreciate the different view points that are typically on this forum and logged in looking for a broader perspective. I was interested in reading the perspective of military families and leaders who I have gleaned valuable information in the past. I was interested in reading about how this impacts our young adults in and out of the academies from people with inside knowledge and valuable insight. I was curious to read perspectives of what our National Guard members are thinking and feeling. I thought I might learn more about the military code and chain of command when dealing with a situation of insurrection and the implications for our young military leaders. These are all relevant discussions that would certainly seem appropriate for this forum.
 
tryingmybest said:
Interesting take after you created, and provided false evidence. In the name of open discourse the thread being left open would have been helpful so that posters could come back and apologize for jumping to conclusions and creating false enemies. It is convenient that you are able to pivot the tone and cleanse the narrative to "be careful to respect the perspectives of others." and "Narratives shouldn't be created and accepted..." when your voice was heard and you were able to create a "truth" before a proper investigation, but others were silenced. I also find your last line chilling.

My issue and my objection to the post being closed is that some members (ahem....) were able to create the tone by early posts while others were processing and trying to gather facts/information before joining the discussion. As the smoke cleared, real evidence surfaced (video, first person accounts, written evidence of intent), false flags debunked, and implications for our current and future active duty military leaders came into focus the thread is closed down and discussions ceased. I appreciate the different view points that are typically on this forum and logged in looking for a broader perspective. I was interested in reading the perspective of military families and leaders who I have gleaned valuable information in the past. I was interested in reading about how this impacts our young adults in and out of the academies from people with inside knowledge and valuable insight. I was curious to read perspectives of what our National Guard members are thinking and feeling. I thought I might learn more about the military code and chain of command when dealing with a situation of insurrection and the implications for our young military leaders. These are all relevant discussions that would certainly seem appropriate for this forum.
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The tone of this post is exactly why the thread was locked down. It seems as though you are upset that you didn't have a chance to have your voice heard before the thread was locked down. While that is understandable, the solution to this is not to start another thread and immediately restart the bickering. If you are truly "terrified that this forum may turn off amazing leaders and future defenders of our constitution out of fear that they don't belong" then it would be wise to discontinue the conversation. I, as a high school student, can tell you that the people my age are far more concerned with our country's unity, not necessarily who was in the right and who was in the wrong. It seems as though the US is becoming more and more divided by the second. This is honestly ten times scarier than any event I have seen, especially since I fully intend to devote my entire life to serving in the military and protecting our citizens. Conversations (if I can even call them that) in which nothing productive is said and further divides us does no good for anybody. Instead, lets focus on what we share and move forward.
 
My 2 cents - The purpose (or at least I think it is) of this forum is to help young men and women with their journey to commission in the military through the SA's or ROTC - not debate politics. The events of last week are very raw still and the thread was emotional and not helpful to the purpose of this forum. I think we are all trying to process what happened as well as understand the events leading up to it. Politics are a delicate thing as an officer and he/she will learn those nuances through the proper channels - not the SA Forums.
 
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Discussion of 1/6 comes down to politics and political opinion. The Military must remain a-political. This is a military forum. It is NOT a place for politics. There are plenty of other forums to discuss politics.

“If not here? Where” There are a TON of on-line forums. Find one.

“If not us, who?” That is the question that the leaders of every military coup in history have asked themselves. You have to be freaking kidding to ask that question here!!

The answer is: Congress. The Military does not engage in politics in a democracy.
 
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NJROTC-CC said:
“If not us, who?” That is the question that the leaders of every military coup insurrection in history have asked themselves. You have to be freaking kidding to ask that question here!!

The answer is: Congress
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Apparently, a whole lot of disagree...violently.
 
My DS says the mids in his company avoid any discussions re: partisan politics. It does no one any good in that place (Bancroft Hall). It’s an unresolvable set of differences. Better to leave it alone. Maybe it was different in the past with a different set of circumstances but not this time.
 
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