If you voluntarily leave west point can you join ROTC or enlist?

[MemberLG]

However, I feel it must be a pretty unique set of circumstances for a cadet to drop out, especially so early in the process. I can't imagine that as being a "courageous" act. Is this something you'd have to have attended WP to understand? Perhaps DS needs to request additional interviews to find out what the USMA is really all about.

What is your initial perception if someone tells you that he or she attended
a SA but didn't graduated from it?

If a kid attends University of X and moves on to University of Y, do we say he or she quit or transferred?

Most cases, parents are very proud of their DD or DS attending a SA. Parents' love are unconditional, but that doesn't mean they won't be disappointed.

When I was a CBT cadre, a new cadet in my platoon quit. I had a length counseling session with him. He told me that he realized that he came to West Point because that's what his coach and father wanted him to do. After spending several weeks at CBT, he realized that West Point wasn't for him. Yes CBT is not the West Point, but it's a part of West Point life. Yes, made all the points about how things will get better. Ultimately, he had to make a choice, right or wrong. What would have been an easier choice - leaving or staying? I think leaving is a harder choice, so hence my comment.

 

[ActaNonVerba]

Thanks ActaNonVerba. Good perspectives. By the way, it's interesting you have a Merchant Marine moniker of sorts. Was that a possible path for you at some point?

Do you know similar "drop out" rates and stats for all the SA? Are some much higher than others and what might account for that? Just curious.

USCGA 2018,

I never applied to the USMMA. Everyone has their own phrases/sayings they try to live by, and that is mine.

I did apply to the USCGA very late (in March of 2013 I believe) and got in. I actually commented on your post in the CGA forum a few weeks ago; not sure if you saw! If you have any questions feel free to ask.

As far as attrition rates? I'm not going to sit here and point fingers and make wild accusations about the reasons for attrition, because it really isn't my place. Myself and others have suspicions, but really, we only see things from the outside. I know USMAPS prepsters have a very high attrition rate during their 4 years USMA. The USMAPS campus got relocated to a brand new area about a mile away from USMA. Why is the attrition rate so high? Having had a prepster as a roommate during Beast and a prepster roommate currently, I can honestly say that the USMAPS c/o 2013 had a much more relaxed environment... As prepsters, they had the privileges of having cars, ability to leave often, and just a general easier environment. We had some prepsters (2-3 I believe) quit during the beginning of Beast! Being a plebe at the actual academy is way different that being a prepster, based off of what I've been told. I don't have anything against prepsters, but I think that the situation needs to be seriously looked at... but again, it is not my job to criticize others.

Other academies? I am not familiar with USAFA. My mother was an USAF pilot but she commissioned through ROTC. I am very familiar with Navy since my father is a grad. I know Navy has the same situation with their prepsters, but I think we have a higher attrition rate.

At the same time, while prepsters have a high attrition rate, we also have a lot of prepsters high up in leadership at the academy who are top-notch.

 

[USCGA_2018]

Understood MemberLG. Thanks for reminding me of an all too common scenario. This happened at CGA's AIM program this summer. I believe it was 8 participants that never really wanted to be there in the first place that were gone very quickly.

 

[MemberLG]

As far as attrition rates? I'm not going to sit here and point fingers and make wild accusations about the reasons for attrition, because it really isn't my place. Myself and others have suspicions, but really, we only see things from the outside. I know USMAPS prepsters have a very high attrition rate during their 4 years USMA. The USMAPS campus got relocated to a brand new area about a mile away from USMA. Why is the attrition rate so high? Having had a prepster as a roommate during Beast and a prepster roommate currently, I can honestly say that the USMAPS c/o 2013 had a much more relaxed environment... As prepsters, they had the privileges of having cars, ability to leave often, and just a general easier environment. We had some prepsters (2-3 I believe) quit during the beginning of Beast! Being a plebe at the actual academy is way different that being a prepster, based off of what I've been told. I don't have anything against prepsters, but I think that the situation needs to be seriously looked at... but again, it is not my job to criticize others.
.

What is a high attrition rate? According to the USMA prep school website, the graduation for direct admits and prepster have been pretty much similar since 2007. So either your assertion is wrong or the prep school is bold enough to put an inaccurate data as the truth.

 

[Lolz777]

In regards to the brief about the new cadet who quit early (im a current plebe) im pretty sure it was Col Mauldin and the issue was that the new cadet quit so early, hence not giving it a chance, that Col Mauldin did something to not recommend him for military service or might of even been to not allow him into the military again or something like that if I remember correctly. That is why the ROTC CO was calling to try to get it reversed or something like that. That is if I remember correctly so take it with a grain of salt.

Part of me wants to quit right now, not because of the military aspect or anything like that. I liked beast and enjoy the daily military structure. Its just that having done a year of college already and being successful academically there, learning through the Thayer method is hard for me and spending 4 years learning this way just does not sound appealing to me. But this is for another thread. I told myself I would stay til the end of this semester atleast. Im just hoping I can go back to ROTC after that if in fact I do leave the academy.

 

[Lolz777]

What is a high attrition rate? According to the USMA prep school website, the graduation for direct admits and prepster have been pretty much similar since 2007. So either your assertion is wrong or the prep school is bold enough to put an inaccurate data as the truth.

Im pretty I heard from a class 2016 prepster that his prepschool class have lost either 40 or 60 cadets or somewhere in that range. If thats right, thats alot out of an originial 200.

 

[tug_boat]

Separation...

There are many reasons why a cadet would leave and each circumstance is treated individually. The case with the cadet candidate leaving after a week is simply. It wasn’t what he expected. His parents were here on the forum quite often. Cadets are allowed to separate before their third year without any obligation to the Army. And then there are quite a few cases of Cadets of the LDS faith who separate on good terms to participate on foreign mission and return after their two-year commitment is complete. WP embraces this type of separation because they have a better-seasoned cadet with cultural and language skills that are extremely valuable to the leadership. Matter of fact, 95% of the language teachers at WP have taken this path. The down side of this is, they don’t graduate with their original class and need to reapply for a nomination again. But no one has not received a nomination.

I wouldn’t worry or focus on something you have no control of. If you are considering, applying for West Point practice the leadership style of the Vikings.

Push Hard, Press Forward

 

[ActaNonVerba]

Not sure as far as the source or accuracy of those numbers, but I confirmed just tonight with my prepster buddy that 17 prepsters have resigned and a couple more are talking about it.

 

[tug_boat]

Prepsters....

What sport were they recruited for?

Push Hard, Press Forward

 

[MemberLG]

Im pretty I heard from a class 2016 prepster that his prepschool class have lost either 40 or 60 cadets or somewhere in that range. If thats right, thats alot out of an originial 200.

In most cases, a single human source is not a reliable source of information. Hope you don't branch MI and tell you commander something without verification or analysis. This is an Internet forum, but we can do or should better than "I heard from someone . . ."

 

[MemberLG]

Not sure as far as the source or accuracy of those numbers, but I confirmed just tonight with my prepster buddy that 17 prepsters have resigned and a couple more are talking about it.

Not sure the source or accuracy but your prepster buddy is a reliable source?

 

[scoutpilot]

This thread has so much going on I don't know where to start.

The notion that a LTC at West Point is the final arbiter of whether someone who quits can do ROTC on a scholarship is pretty flimsy. It sounds like a few things have been misheard or misunderstood.

 

[LineInTheSand]

This thread has so much going on I don't know where to start.

The notion that a LTC at West Point is the final arbiter of whether someone who quits can do ROTC on a scholarship is pretty flimsy. It sounds like a few things have been misheard or misunderstood.

A LTC at the Pentagon isn't even the final arbiter of who gets to push the button of an elevator in the Pentagon.

This is typical senior officer impressing cadets.... plain and simple. It's impressive as a cadet, maybe even as a junior officer, for awhile, and then you see right through it.

 

[scoutpilot]

A LTC at the Pentagon isn't even the final arbiter of who gets to push the button of an elevator in the Pentagon.

This is typical senior officer impressing cadets.... plain and simple. It's impressive as a cadet, maybe even as a junior officer, for awhile, and then you see right through it.

I think I'm a bit more skeptical. I doubt we are hearing a fully accurate account of what was said.

 

[ActaNonVerba]

ScoutPilot,

I was there as well, and he did indeed say that. He never said anything about keeping them from joining the military again. He just said that he refused to recommend the former New Cadet for ROTC.

 

[LineInTheSand]

ScoutPilot,

I was there as well, and he did indeed say that. He never said anything about keeping them from joining the military again. He just said that he refused to recommend the former New Cadet for ROTC.

Not recommending is different, in my book, from recommending against.

 

[Packer]

Not recommending is different, in my book, from recommending against.

If I contact a former employer of a prospective employee and get a luke warm or an "I can't recommend" I certainly interpret this as a recommendation against.

 

[scoutpilot]

ScoutPilot,

I was there as well, and he did indeed say that. He never said anything about keeping them from joining the military again. He just said that he refused to recommend the former New Cadet for ROTC.

Whoa whoa whoa. The discussion up to now was centered around this LTC supposedly having the power/authority to approve or deny this kid's enrollment in ROTC because the kid supposedly signed some "paperwork." Now we are talking about a recommendation. Which is it?

Seems as though my skepticism was well-founded.

 

[LineInTheSand]

If I contact a former employer of a prospective employee and get a luke warm or an "I can't recommend" I certainly interpret this as a recommendation against.

How many O-5 SHOULD be able to recommend a swab/plebe.... or whatever who leaves the first week?

"I can't really recommend him because I didn't have any contact with him." or "I don't have enough experience with the individual to provide a recommendation" or "Major, I have 2,000 new students each summer, and the individual you're asking about was at West Point for a week. I wouldn't feel comfortable providing a recommendation."

Instead we get "not in my Army?"

Unless there is a better reason than "he, like many, didn't want to go to West Point at the end of the day and left." why would a LTC take the extra step of damning him? It speaks more to the character of the LTC than the kid who left.

Now if there's a reason "I can't recommend him because we kicked him out after a week, when we discovered he was having sex in the baracks, drinking and doing drugs at night and selling government secrets to the Chinese".... ok, then sure.

But the kid LEAVES and that's enough for the LTC? That's on the officer. And kids, don't be confused, even officers with silver oak leaves can be poor leaders...

 

[Packer]

How many O-5 SHOULD be able to recommend a swab/plebe.... or whatever who leaves the first week?

"I can't really recommend him because I didn't have any contact with him." or "I don't have enough experience with the individual to provide a recommendation" or "Major, I have 2,000 new students each summer, and the individual you're asking about was at West Point for a week. I wouldn't feel comfortable providing a recommendation."

Instead we get "not in my Army?"

Unless there is a better reason than "he, like many, didn't want to go to West Point at the end of the day and left." why would a LTC take the extra step of damning him? It speaks more to the character of the LTC than the kid who left.

Now if there's a reason "I can't recommend him because we kicked him out after a week, when we discovered he was having sex in the baracks, drinking and doing drugs at night and selling government secrets to the Chinese".... ok, then sure.

But the kid LEAVES and that's enough for the LTC? That's on the officer. And kids, don't be confused, even officers with silver oak leaves can be poor leaders...

I very much agree with you.

There very well could be a difference between what the LTC said and what he did. Perhaps his way of discouraging kids from bailing out.