If you voluntarily leave west point can you join ROTC or enlist?

Whoa whoa whoa. The discussion up to now was centered around this LTC supposedly having the power/authority to approve or deny this kid's enrollment in ROTC because the kid supposedly signed some "paperwork." Now we are talking about a recommendation. Which is it?

Seems as though my skepticism was well-founded.

if you go back through my posts, I never once said anything about that. As a matter of fact, I explicitly said that LTC Cross never said anything about some magical papework that was signed to prevent the kid from joining the military

You all are grasping for straws now. I told you what the LTC said, I don't know anything else.
 
Again, we were not told the full story. I remember what LTC Cross said vividly, and I'm not sure what jaydee is talking about, but there was never any mention of "prohibition from entering the service again". Common sense indicates that this, as you said, is not legal.

What I'm trying to say is this: Some individual leaves several days into Beast, tries to join ROTC, and the ROTC CO called LTC Cross asking if he recommended the guy/girl (who left Beast). LTC Cross said "no".

This does not mean said guy/girl was not able to join ROTC. Unless someone is separated for an honor code violation, severe misconduct, or legal action, there is nothing that should prevent someone from joining ROTC or even going to another academy (yes, this has happened) or enlisting. Being in good standing when leaving the academy keeps doors opened for you. I think the problem with this situation is that the former New Cadet didn't even try to survive or tough it out, thus, nobody knows if he would have EVER been in good standing in the first place! How could you recommend someone who hasn't even done anything yet?

I quote myself.
 
A buddy of mine has LTC Cross as his sponsor. I'll tell him to ask and I'll get back to ya:thumb:
 
On the issue of whether it is a bad thing for a cadet candidate, or plebe, to voluntarily leave West Point:

Would you rather have a commissioned Jr. Officer who:
-learned early on that the Army lifestyle turned out to be something completely different from what he expected it to be,
-decided to drop, but before doing so --,
-consulted with his parents, and being unable to bear the thought of letting them down, did stay at the USMA
-hated every minute at the Academy
-hated being an O1, then O2, then O3 before his 5 years commitment is satisfied. Performed poorly in his duties because his heart was most certainly not in it.
-Rentered civilian life resenting his parents, the Army, and his own poor choices

-OR-

-decided that as painful as it is to learn that what you thought was a set path for the next twenty years isn't, and as painful as it is to disappoint parents and others who supported the journey to officership:

- to cut the losses early and leave West Point.

Why would anyone want a cadet at West Point, or a Junior Officer, who hates his situation and is ill fitted to it, but stays in, endures it, just to please others? Do you want the lives of soldiers in the hands of an officer who doesn't have his heart in it?
 
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P.S. -- West Point builds into its admissions an expected attrition rate. Attrition from academic issues, medical issues, and... deciding their heart is not in it after closer inspection.

No spot is "wasted". Somewhere around 5-10% of the incoming class is going to leave because it wasn't what they expected it to be. Another 8-15% for medical, academic, and conduct reasons. That totals up to between 15% and 20%. So Admissions looks at their mission set for Year Group 2019, and in 2015 West Point admits 15-20% more students than the mission set calls for, knowing that four years hence, 80-85% of them will commission. E.g. if they forecast a need for 1,050 new 2LTs, they admit 1,050/.83, or whatever the coefficient looks like for that year. Recently that coefficient is more like .87

Attrition is built into the system. It is expected. It's part of life. If 17% don't attrit, there is a problem with glut at commissioning time. So, thank those that attrit. They are doing what they are supposed to do; what the Army needs them to do.

I suppose that COL who became angry with the cadet candidate for dropping wasn't let in on, or failed to grasp, the overall plan.
 
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Out of curiosity, what does WP think of reapplicants who voluntarily left WP, but want back in? Similar to a reapplicants in college in that it shows dedication?
 
On the issue of whether it is a bad thing for a cadet candidate, or plebe, to voluntarily leave West Point:

Would you rather have a commissioned Jr. Officer who:
-learned early on that the Army lifestyle turned out to be something completely different from what he expected it to be,
-decided to drop, but before doing so --,
-consulted with his parents, and being unable to bear the thought of letting them down, did stay at the USMA
-hated every minute at the Academy
-hated being an O1, then O2, then O3 before his 5 years commitment is satisfied. Performed poorly in his duties because his heart was most certainly not in it.
-Rentered civilian life resenting his parents, the Army, and his own poor choices

-OR-

-decided that as painful as it is to learn that what you thought was a set path for the next twenty years isn't, and as painful as it is to disappoint parents and others who supported the journey to officership:

- to cut the losses early and leave West Point.

Why would anyone want a cadet at West Point, or a Junior Officer, who hates his situation and is ill fitted to it, but stays in, endures it, just to please others? Do you want the lives of soldiers in the hands of an officer who doesn't have his heart in it?

I tend to agree with you when it comes to someone that leaves WP because they decided they didn't like "Army life"

I think the OP was more interested in those that leave WP and pursue ROTC as a commissioning path, there's a big difference.

Granted, a new cadet should know what to expect when starting WP, but sometimes expectations don't always meet reality. Not everyone wants what WP offers, they may think they do until they actually show up.

Going along the same lines as your post, I do think it's better for a cadet to leave early if they find they really don't like what they see. Spending 4 years in a place you truely hate will not make you a better officer and could easily make a new LT start counting the days until his obligation is over.

WP vs ROTC like comparing night and day, while they both have the same end result the journey is quite different. Some will thrive at WP and some thrive at ROTC, it really depends on the person. I think most people will tell you that neither is a true representation of the actual Army.

To me at least, there is nothing wrong with someone leaving WP and joining ROTC. Over the last 5 plus years my son's battalion has had a few cadets that left WP and joined the program. A couple did not stay with it but a few did, they completed the program and commissioned, on in the top 1%. These new LT's joined all the other new LT's from other ROTC programs, WP, and OCS, they just got there by a different journey.

If this LTC would not give a recommendation for a cadet based only on the fact that he did not like that the cadet left early, then I find his decision to be very short sighted at the least. Now if there were other reasons that have not been mentioned then that's a different story. It's ahrd to really speculate without knowing the whole story.

My point is not everyone wants WP, some don't find that out until they start, it certainly does not mean they can't commission by other sources and go on to be fine officers.
 
Service

Everyone comes to West Point for their own reasons. Some because they think their parents expect it. Some for the prestige. Others because they read a West Point history book in 7th grade and had a lifelong wish to be a cadet. I had two roommates drop out in their Plebe year. I can't imagine someone dropping out during Beast. How can you truly assess your situation based on 1-6 weeks of tough training. I wanted to drop out of the Army in basic training after going through the NBC Chamber (CS gas). I hated the Army and hated life. Later, after Prep School, West Point, and a 30 year career - I can't imagine a better way to have spent my professional life. Saying all that, USMA is not for everyone and I don't begrudge anyone who serves, no matter how they choose to do it. We need West Pointers, ROTC, direct commissioned, and OCS people to make our Army and our Nation strong,
 
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