Information About Intelligence Officer Careers And Choosing Scholarship

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USNAHopeful123456

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Hello everyone. I am currently an incoming sophomore at my university. At the moment, I am enrolled in Army ROTC with an Advanced Designee Scholarship; however, since I was extremely young I have always had a passion to be in the Navy. Unfortunately, as a senior in high school I applied for USNA and missed my opportunity to apply for NROTC until this year. Now, a few days ago I was offered a three year NROTC scholarship to the same university. With COVID-19 and time for self-reflection, I have realized that my desire to fly fixed wing aircraft in the Navy has been challenged by a desire to do intelligence work that can then be translated to a career in one of the U.S.' intelligence agencies. While I continue to experience a passion for aviation, I want to make sure that AVIATION is the best choice before I decide to switch programs. Additionally, I want to know that if, during NROTC, my passion for an intelligence career outshines that of aviation it could be fulfilled in the manner that the Army's MI branch would (through human intelligence, more "out in the field" style intelligence, and counterintelligence work). I want the intelligence work to be at least partially hands on, if possible. It appears that the best of the two possible career paths I want are divided between the service branches I must choose between. I would like to better understand my options. I want to know the contrast between the Navy's "Military Intelligence Officer careers" and the Army's large and robust MI branch. So if anyone knows the competitive levels of each, could share their stories, further my understanding, solidify my decisions, etc. please feel free to comment on this thread. If you need further explanation or information, just ask.
 
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@USNAHopeful123456 - Congratulations on your dilemma! I can't comment on which path is better for a career in intelligence. One thing to consider is the length of the service requirement for Aviation. Candidates will serve a minimum of eight years on active duty from the date of designation as a Naval Aviator. Typically, it can take 18-24 months before a student "get his/her wings" and that is when the 8 year clock starts. Consider it a 10 year commitment. Candidates who do not complete the Navy pilot program will serve four years from the date they leave flight status unless released by the Deputy Chief of Naval Operations (Manpower, Personnel, and Training). That would put you in your early 30s before seeking a job with one of the 3 letter intelligence agencies.
 
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Presumably, you have read this:
www.navy.com

U.S. Navy Intelligence Officer Careers | Navy.com

Become an Intelligence Officer in the U.S. Navy. Manage intelligence gathering and analysis to support decisions of global impact. Start your journey today.
www.navy.com www.navy.com

Some form of the word “analysis” is used six times in the description of the Navy Intelligence warfare specialty (Navy equivalent of “Branch”). That is a big clue right there. Though intelligence officers do a wide variety of things, a lot of it is analysis and data-diving and critical thinking, not so much clandestine operations. Yes, there are those who get to do Interesting Things, but that is not the norm.

More importantly, the Intelligence Warfare specialty is a Restricted Line Community, which is not usually available as a warfare specialty directly from NROTC. The Unrestricted Line warfare specialties are fed by NROTC. You will want to research what is available to you before biting at the apple.
I like this unit’s website:

NROTC Scholarships | Naval ROTC

naval.dasa.ncsu.edu naval.dasa.ncsu.edu

The GOOD news is that if your longer-term goal is as a field agent or clandestine services officer for one of the “ABC” agencies, you do NOT have to come out of a military intelligence field. Those agencies know what they are getting with a military junior officer: someone who already has a security clearance, who has dealt with live operational situations and made decisions, who has led people and managed resources, who understands strategic planning and tactical execution, who has proven themselves to be highly adaptive thinkers and dynamic individuals in stressful situations.

We have sponsored USNA mids for years. Of those who have gone into gold shield/weapons-carrying/clandestine work in the “ABC” agencies, their majors have included Physics, Oceanography, Quantitative Economics, History, Mech E. They have been Marines in ground communications, surface warfare officers, submarine officers, EOD. They were all PT studs and studettes, very physically fit and active. One is an expert in a martial art. One is an accomplished rock and mountain climber, does Spartan races. One is a triathlete. One is trilingual, a first generation American who also soaks up language like a sponge. Interestingly, there have been no aviators. That is a long training pipeline and a long active duty service obligation, but doable, as those skills are valuable too. One of ours who was a SWO had a roommate at her agency training school, a USMA grad who was military police. She said her class was a mix of other law enforcement, lawyers and military junior officers with very diverse backgrounds.

Reverse engineer this. Rest assured if you are a stellar junior officer with the performance evaluations to prove it, regardless of major or officer specialty, you will have a decent shot at an “ABC” career. Now, do your research on the culture and career paths of Army and Navy. What is available to you? If you don’t get your first choice, are there alternative choices that appeal? What feels right to you? What interests you? Who is your tribe? If you choose the path that makes you the happiest, you will likely be a more successful junior officer. Don’t look so far ahead that you don’t think enough about how and with whom you will spend your time for the next 7-10 years.

Good luck!
 
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Army MI officers are encouraged and often times forced to be in the infantry, armor or field artillery for the first 3 years of their carrers to ensure they understand maneuvering prior to becoming battalion S2s/intel officers. Few MI officers are “snooping around” as we have the reconnaissance scouts to do that. Army MI officers analyze and process the data to turn it into intelligence that commanders use to make decisions. And they process security clearances for their battalions and inspect arms rooms as physical security officers.
 
@EEBTTF - That is really insightful. Your answer gives me a good indication that if I have even a small desire to continue down the intelligence pipeline, I should consider a different MOS than aviation.
 
@Capt MJ - I really appreciate the in-depth and extremely perceptive response you have given. The information stated alleviates some of my doubt in pursuing an intelligence career because I now know that other junior officer paths could still sail me towards those "ABC" agencies, if I choose. Seeing that you were a captain in the U.S. Navy, would you mind me asking if the SWO pipeline is rewarding or as tactically challenging as some land-based operations executed by the army? I feel slightly disadvantaged in my understanding of the complexity of naval surface warfare. And does one branch over the other typically do more successfully in being selected for and working in those "ABC" agencies? Finally, if here is not appropriate, could you privately message me with more information about how you sponsor midshipmen? I still would love to give USNA one last shot and would like to know how that would also impact my career positively or negatively.
 
@USNAHopeful123456 ,

Within the US military is a large infrastructure of intelligence gathering activity that goes beyond listening to phone calls and looking a satellite photos.

en.wikipedia.org

Intelligence Support Activity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I would recommend reading Relentless Strike by Sean Naylor. For obvious reasons it can’t be very detailed, but it does describe its indispensable role among SMU’s (Special Missions Units).

They recruit across a broad spectrum of services, branches and specialties.

Your best bet will be to concentrate on the here and now, and discover what you really enjoy. You can then create a virtuous cycle of loving what you do and doing what you love. To borrow a phrase from @Capt MJ , that will become your tent pole

BTW Regardless of your major, get a foreign language under your belt.
 
@cb7893 - Thank you for the information. I am going to purchase Relentless Strike. It is right up my alley. I just hope my branch choice leaves me with many opportunities that I will enjoy. That said, should I pursue a minor in a foreign language? I have 10 credits already; however, my aerospace degree plan and say I go NROTC will already require at least 17-20 credit hours a semester. Will the Navy send you to a language school like DLI or are they different than the Army?
 
USNAHopeful123456 said:
@cb7893 - Thank you for the information. I am going to purchase Relentless Strike. It is right up my alley. I just hope my branch choice leaves me with many opportunities that I will enjoy. That said, should I pursue a minor in a foreign language? I have 10 credits already; however, my aerospace degree plan and say I go NROTC will already require at least 17-20 credit hours a semester. Will the Navy send you to a language school like DLI or are they different than the Army?
Click to expand...

I can't be of much help to you regarding the intricacies of Aviation and MI in the Army and Navy. I know that aviation is very competitive and one should consider where he/she might end up in either service, if Aviation falls through. I'm being simplistic and I hope someone corrects me, but it seems, if you want to fly fixed winged aircraft or fly anything as an officer, then Navy sounds most logical. If you are bound and determined to do MI then, as you mentioned, the Army has a larger and more varied operation.

You are trying to curate the next 7-10 years of your life. It is almost impossible to do. My DS chose AROTC based on reading a book, which I gave him, called Imperial Grunts. He was bound and determined to end up in some faraway place on some kind of military adventure. Remember, this is thinking of a 17 year old male, without a fully formed brain. So he heads off to major in Chem E, which he changed to Chemistry because he was fascinated with reactions and mathematical proofs. I'll spare you the details of his short career, but he branched Signal and God willing, is about to finish the SFQC. He still loves Chemistry but I don't think he has used it since graduation for anything other than Trivial Pursuit or winning bets at the bar.

His guiding principles were to anticipate and meet the needs of whatever unit he ended up in and to not limit his options going forward. His path couldn't have been scripted. Like he did, you will write it as you go. The minute you make your decision, embrace it and never look back.

I wish you the best of luck.

BTW check out Project Go.

Homepage | Project GO

www.rotcprojectgo.org www.rotcprojectgo.org

My son studied Russian with Project Go in Kiev, Ukraine after his sophomore year.
 
cb7893 said:
@USNAHopeful123456

Your best bet will be to concentrate on the here and now, and discover what you really enjoy. You can then create a virtuous cycle of loving what you do and doing what you love. To borrow a phrase from @Capt MJ , that will become your tent pole

BTW Regardless of your major, get a foreign language under your belt.
Click to expand...

Superb advice, especially about mastering a foreign language.

At this time in your life, you have a unique opportunity. Take advantage of not only Project GO but all the extensive resources afforded by your university. Go deep into a language as well as the cultural/political/social/historical background of a region or nation where that language is spoken.
 
USNAHopeful123456 said:
@Capt MJ - I really appreciate the in-depth and extremely perceptive response you have given. The information stated alleviates some of my doubt in pursuing an intelligence career because I now know that other junior officer paths could still sail me towards those "ABC" agencies, if I choose. Seeing that you were a captain in the U.S. Navy, would you mind me asking if the SWO pipeline is rewarding or as tactically challenging as some land-based operations executed by the army? I feel slightly disadvantaged in my understanding of the complexity of naval surface warfare. And does one branch over the other typically do more successfully in being selected for and working in those "ABC" agencies? Finally, if here is not appropriate, could you privately message me with more information about how you sponsor midshipmen? I still would love to give USNA one last shot and would like to know how that would also impact my career positively or negatively.
Click to expand...
I can’t compare ship operations at sea to Army land operations, because I haven’t done the latter. I always knew the sea was for me, as I grew up on a coastal barrier island and was around small boats growing up. I don’t mind being out of sight of land for long periods of time. Seasickness never bothered me. Both are complex, challenging environments with roles for junior officers to work extraordinarily hard, lead people, grow and learn, and potentially assume command down the road.

The SAs all have sponsor programs, where cadets and midshipmen all have a home away from home with local sponsor families. We have sponsored 4-5 USNA plebes/year since the 1990’s, so I have tracked their careers in and out of the Navy and Marine Corps. That’s how I know what they’re doing.

I’ll just reiterate my original advice. Figure out which path calls to you more, excel, and if you still want to try for an ABC agency, you plan to separate and apply. Keep in mind the Navy does things above, on and below the water, out of sight of land for very long periods of time, all over the world, and the Marines are often with them for that. The Army is a land-centric force. Ways of operating, cultural attributes and other aspects of service life are often alike, but often quite different, among the services. You cannot go wrong either way, unless you don’t take the time to make a thoughtful assessment of yourself and where you would find a fit.

A wise boss of mine once said to me as I was preparing to go to my first Executive Officer role, “You will never have 100% of the information you want or need to make the perfect decision. You will be lucky to have 40%-60%. You will have to make a decision and get on with it, realizing you will make mistakes along the way. Own them, fix them if you can, and also realize not making a decision is a decision.”


For fun, go to the Job Fit Tool at the link below, play with some hypothetical answers, note the questions and skills looked for, and do some reverse engineering:

Military Transition — Central Intelligence Agency

Your prior military service could qualify you to continue to serve your nation at the Central Intelligence Agency. Opportunities for qualified applicants are available in the U.S. and abroad.
www.cia.gov
 
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@Capt MJ - Thank you for the loads of information and help you have given. It will not be disregarded. I will do such. That is, make my decisions and see where life takes me. I will prepare but not plan so intensely for a future that is hardly known. Also, thanks for the links.
 
thibaud said:
Superb advice, especially about mastering a foreign language.

At this time in your life, you have a unique opportunity. Take advantage of not only Project GO but all the extensive resources afforded by your university. Go deep into a language as well as the cultural/political/social/historical background of a region or nation where that language is spoken.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the advice. I think, besides aerospace engineering, I will try my best at mastering one of the "hot" foreign languages.
 
cb7893 said:
I can't be of much help to you regarding the intricacies of Aviation and MI in the Army and Navy. I know that aviation is very competitive and one should consider where he/she might end up in either service, if Aviation falls through. I'm being simplistic and I hope someone corrects me, but it seems, if you want to fly fixed winged aircraft or fly anything as an officer, then Navy sounds most logical. If you are bound and determined to do MI then, as you mentioned, the Army has a larger and more varied operation.

You are trying to curate the next 7-10 years of your life. It is almost impossible to do. My DS chose AROTC based on reading a book, which I gave him, called Imperial Grunts. He was bound and determined to end up in some faraway place on some kind of military adventure. Remember, this is thinking of a 17 year old male, without a fully formed brain. So he heads off to major in Chem E, which he changed to Chemistry because he was fascinated with reactions and mathematical proofs. I'll spare you the details of his short career, but he branched Signal and God willing, is about to finish the SFQC. He still loves Chemistry but I don't think he has used it since graduation for anything other than Trivial Pursuit or winning bets at the bar.

His guiding principles were to anticipate and meet the needs of whatever unit he ended up in and to not limit his options going forward. His path couldn't have been scripted. Like he did, you will write it as you go. The minute you make your decision, embrace it and never look back.

I wish you the best of luck.

BTW check out Project Go.

Homepage | Project GO

www.rotcprojectgo.org www.rotcprojectgo.org

My son studied Russian with Project Go in Kiev, Ukraine after his sophomore year.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the additional info. Today I received Relentless Strike in the mail. I will give it a go.
 
USNAHopeful123456 said:
@Capt MJ - Thank you for the loads of information and help you have given. It will not be disregarded. I will do such. That is, make my decisions and see where life takes me. I will prepare but not plan so intensely for a future that is hardly known. Also, thanks for the links.
Click to expand...
You are most welcome. I believe all the Fed ABC agencies have veteran on boarding programs.

It is good to have short, medium and long-term plans. It is also good to be in the here and now, being adaptive and agile enough to alter course and update plans.
 
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