Leadership positions held at The Yard

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Shoreboy

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What leadership positions held while at Annapolis help a midshipman post grad? I.e. grad school admissions or employment opportunities.
 
Shoreboy said:
What leadership positions held while at Annapolis help a midshipman post grad? I.e. grad school admissions or employment opportunities.
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Leadership positions at USNA are all part of the training and exposure to various elements of leadership, such as accountability and responsibility.

Grad school admissions, whether it’s the opportunity to go immediately after USNA (not the normal pattern, but a few get to do this), going to grad school either as full-time duty/after-hours or remote at the normal time in the career via a variety of programs, or after separation from the military and using educational benefits - these will all depend on academic performance as undergrad, any required grad school exams, life experience, and other factors. The quality and rigor of the USNA B.S. degree is a good boost. No one in the Fleet or Corps cares if you were a “striper” at USNA; what counts is whether the new ensign or 2nd LT learned anything practical from that experience.

To be fair, for the really shiny IGEP (Immediate Graduate Education Program) opportunities such as Rhodes, Fulbright, Marshall, etc., I am sure a striper position can be a nice part of the USNA all-round resume.

Way down the road, a private sector employer will care about your skills and experience as a leader and manager while a junior officer, the ability to make decisions in a high-pressure environment, think analytically and strategically, plan and execute tactical plans as parts of operations management, make sound decisions, be accountable/responsible, collaborate, lead/coach/develop teams, show maturity and ethical core, be easily eligible for security clearances, and many other KSAs (key skills and abilities) developed as an officer, along with technical roots from the B.S., regardless of major.
 
I’ve attended grad school with, hired, worked alongside and supervised quite a few SA grads and former JMOs. When hiring, it’s always impressive to see major leadership posts in college. But that’s mainly eye candy, especially if the person is more than a few years out of college, which would cover JMOs. At that point, it’s all about “what have you done for [someone] lately?” The SA stuff can make for a nice ice-breaker conversation, but not so much after that. Presumably, leadership posts in college helped make you a better leader in post-grad life, and it’s the latter that employers most care about.

P.S. Yet again, cross-posted with @Capt MJ. 🤔 She says more eloquently my own perspective.
 
In my Fortune 200 days, I interviewed a former JMO who’d graduated #2 in his SA class. It was for an entry-level role in the company’s lead function, typically for candidates coming out of a top-10 MBA program. He had five years of active duty with no graduate school.

His resume listed all the bells and whistles you’d expect of the #2 grad of an SA. But they were down low, under “Experience.” I said “ooh, ahh” very respectfully as he briefly told me about his time at the SA — small talk. I then proceeded to grill him on the leadership, problem solving and people management he did on active duty. And I based my “yes” decision purely on that — not what he did in college.

Sadly for us, he stayed only a few years. He went on to grad school and an incredibly successful business career. We’re connected on LinkedIn and I’m proud to see all that he’s achieved.
 
Sure being Brigade Commander or something like Regimental Commander from Plebe Summer could help in some situations. Capt MJ I believe touched on those. If competing for some roles for things like VGEP or IGEP, they could help with the down selection process, but it would have very little to no significance when competing for admittance to the grad school itself. Competing for Grad School or anything beyond the Academy, no one cares you were Brigade Commander or any other billet. They care about GMAT scores, your essays, your interview, what network did you build. I have watched very middle of the pack to low of pack classmates of mine who struggled at USNA academically (I also did) gain admittance to T7 MBA programs, go to med school, become lawyers, and not to forget hold Command and gain some high level leadership roles in the military.

Our Valedictorian went to grad school immediately upon graduation and then BUDS. Quite frankly, not many liked the guy. He rang out pretty quickly, did 5 and dive (nothing wrong with that by the way). Career wise outside of uniform he has done well, but wouldn't say anything beyond what most of my classmates are doing. Our Anchor Man has crushed it as an entrepreneur and has been highly successful in uniform and out of it. He is well regarded by the class in general. What you do at USNA does not always correlate to anything beyond USNA. Some are just really good academically. Its why the whole person is so critical.
 
NavyHoops said:
Sure being Brigade Commander or something like Regimental Commander from Plebe Summer could help in some situations. Capt MJ I believe touched on those. If competing for some roles for things like VGEP or IGEP, they could help with the down selection process, but it would have very little to no significance when competing for admittance to the grad school itself. Competing for Grad School or anything beyond the Academy, no one cares you were Brigade Commander or any other billet. They care about GMAT scores, your essays, your interview, what network did you build. I have watched very middle of the pack to low of pack classmates of mine who struggled at USNA academically (I also did) gain admittance to T7 MBA programs, go to med school, become lawyers, and not to forget hold Command and gain some high level leadership roles in the military.

Our Valedictorian went to grad school immediately upon graduation and then BUDS. Quite frankly, not many liked the guy. He rang out pretty quickly, did 5 and dive (nothing wrong with that by the way). Career wise outside of uniform he has done well, but wouldn't say anything beyond what most of my classmates are doing. Our Anchor Man has crushed it as an entrepreneur and has been highly successful in uniform and out of it. He is well regarded by the class in general. What you do at USNA does not always correlate to anything beyond USNA. Some are just really good academically. Its why the whole person is so critical.
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I always enjoy your insight, perspective and advice. Thank you for being such a great resource to this forum
 
NavyHoops said:
Sure being Brigade Commander or something like Regimental Commander from Plebe Summer could help in some situations. Capt MJ I believe touched on those. If competing for some roles for things like VGEP or IGEP, they could help with the down selection process, but it would have very little to no significance when competing for admittance to the grad school itself. Competing for Grad School or anything beyond the Academy, no one cares you were Brigade Commander or any other billet. They care about GMAT scores, your essays, your interview, what network did you build. I have watched very middle of the pack to low of pack classmates of mine who struggled at USNA academically (I also did) gain admittance to T7 MBA programs, go to med school, become lawyers, and not to forget hold Command and gain some high level leadership roles in the military.

Our Valedictorian went to grad school immediately upon graduation and then BUDS. Quite frankly, not many liked the guy. He rang out pretty quickly, did 5 and dive (nothing wrong with that by the way). Career wise outside of uniform he has done well, but wouldn't say anything beyond what most of my classmates are doing. Our Anchor Man has crushed it as an entrepreneur and has been highly successful in uniform and out of it. He is well regarded by the class in general. What you do at USNA does not always correlate to anything beyond USNA. Some are just really good academically. Its why the whole person is so critical.
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Yes and yes!
 
Coincidentally my son called me to tell me of the striper position he got a few days ago.

I asked him what this meant after the Academy, in terms of his assignment or graduate school. He laughed at my question (or me … those two blend sometimes). He said experience as an officer in the Navy and his GPA at the SA matters for graduate school. This just means more work now.
 
Capt MJ said:
To be fair, for the really shiny IGEP (Immediate Graduate Education Program) opportunities such as Rhodes, Fulbright, Marshall, etc., I am sure a striper position can be a nice part of the USNA all-round resume.
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In my opinion, and looking back a long time -- there are two resumes ,,, your USNA resume and your real world , grown up resume. While you are at USNA, the USNA resume, which you begin developing during Plebe summer opens the door to a variety of activities and opportunities throughout you time at USNA. However, like your HS resume as soon as you check in to USNA (here's a hint, you may be the big man (woman) on campus in HS, but nobody cares once you get to USNA), your USNA resume is meaningless as soon as you hit the Fleet and especially when you hit the real world. The top Midshipmen at USNA and lowest Midshipman all start as Ensigns/2nd Lt's... its performance in the Fleet counts.

Of course, grad schools and future employers care about your GPA, and perhaps some activities you participated in -that's what distinguishes you from the masses. Someone might care about striper positions., but 5 years in the Fleet will give you a lot more important and relevant experiences than any striper position.
 
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In the business world, there’s 2 kinds of Leadership

1. The “Score Card” — Managing against the Project Tasks & Goals

2. Taking on Risks: Leading in directions that are Probably not written into or accounted for in the Score Card goals.

Management doesn’t like #2 … but #2 are typically the “Game Changers” …. “Aha” moments, New Patents, New Business opportunities and models, Substantial Cost Savings in the thousands/millions/billions

Sometimes you have to tell your Manager/Director/VP to leave you alone for possibly “Many Weeks” so that you can develop your Game Changing idea …. Managers are never happy with this because it’s not something they can control, and they want to be the Star …. But you are the Star …. It’s your idea …. Not their idea.

It’s lead or get out of the way.
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For what its worth, my first Ac Year squad leader was close to the top of his class and second set, he wore five stripes as a regimental commander and then graduated as number 2 in his class. Three years later I graduated just above the middle of my class with no significant midshipman billets. Fast forward 19 yrs or so and my former squad leader was working for ME in a reserve unit. In my civilian job, I was leading some (then) new technology R&D programs that are now in everyday use while he was a "professional reservist" who had no civilian job and tried to do a few months of active duty here and there. His main source of day to day support was his wife's job.
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Yes, an anecdote but illustrative of how midshipman rank really does not end up being a shortcut to future rank. My class produced four four star Admirals. None of them were former Brigade Commanders or Regimental Commanders at USNA. I'd have to do more research to list the specific striper positions that they held at USNA.
 
A1Janitor said:
Coincidentally my son called me to tell me of the striper position he got a few days ago.

I asked him what this meant after the Academy, in terms of his assignment or graduate school. He laughed at my question (or me … those two blend sometimes). He said experience as an officer in the Navy and his GPA at the SA matters for graduate school. This just means more work now.
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Good work is always rewarded with more work!
 
OldRetSWO said:
For what its worth, my first Ac Year squad leader was close to the top of his class and second set, he wore five stripes as a regimental commander and then graduated as number 2 in his class. Three years later I graduated just above the middle of my class with no significant midshipman billets. Fast forward 19 yrs or so and my former squad leader was working for ME in a reserve unit. In my civilian job, I was leading some (then) new technology R&D programs that are now in everyday use while he was a "professional reservist" who had no civilian job and tried to do a few months of active duty here and there. His main source of day to day support was his wife's job.
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Yes, an anecdote but illustrative of how midshipman rank really does not end up being a shortcut to future rank. My class produced four four star Admirals. None of them were former Brigade Commanders or Regimental Commanders at USNA. I'd have to do more research to list the specific striper positions that they held at USNA.
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I was just reading John MacCains bio last night and it referenced that he was 894 out of 899.
 
My DS and I had lunch with a Classmate of John MacCains. In fact they were in the same company at USNA. Some great stories were told (and will remain confidential) by this retired RADML.
 
OldRetSWO said:
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Yes, an anecdote but illustrative of how midshipman rank really does not end up being a shortcut to future ran
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LT360 said:
I was just reading John MacCains bio last night and it referenced that he was 894 out of 899.
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Brigade commanders have gone on to Flag (I believe my Supe, ADM Larson was a Brigade Commander), but that is a reflection of the quality of person they are as leaders, not just because they had stripes at USNA. (Theoretically, stripes are awarded to those same qualities, but anybody who has attended USNA knows that is not always the case, and some very good leaders never had more than 1 stripe).

I am not sure John McCain should be put on a pedestal as an example of anything. I believe his service as a POW was admirable (although there are some who may think otherwise), but beyond that McCain really never distinguished himself either as a Naval Officer - by many narratives he was somewhat of a screw up that got by due to his Father's position. I'm not even going to touch his record in Congress.
 
One of our Brigade Commanders is still active duty and crushing it. He has promoted well and I expect he may be the first to wear stars in my class. I actually can't remember who the other Brigade Commander was. My room mate was one of the braniacs of our class. She was VGEP, Rhodes Finalist and then studied at Oxford after we graduated. Top 10 type. PRT and Military performance were middle of the pack, enough to be able to apply for these programs, but not enough to stand out in any way. So a PhD at 24. Crazy smart. I actually think she was so smart, her Sailors couldn't keep pace with her in most situations. She was always rated middle of the pack as an officer and got out after about 7ish years. She now does smart people things.
 
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