Mandatory JROTC

AFJROTC...it's in our AFI (think regulation) that membership MUST be 100% voluntary. We are not allowed to accept any student that doesn't want to be in the program. AJROTC...that's army...they use JROTC as a recruiting source/tool (this from one of my counterparts) and as such they really push the service.

Us/me? I don't care if my students aren't interested in serving...I just want them to come into our program, learn a lot, experience a lot, become better students and young men/women...and set goals and achieve them!

They do that and I'm aglow like a proud parent!!
 
I couldn't see the article but it appears it has about as much credibility and journalistic need for bringing this critical issue to public attention as that old homeless guy on the corner talking about his alien abduction back in 1978.

It is likely some private schools like military academies make it mandatory.
 
JohnMcLane said:
I couldn't see the article but it appears it has about as much credibility and journalistic need for bringing this critical issue to public attention as that old homeless guy on the corner talking about his alien abduction back in 1978.

It is likely some private schools like military academies make it mandatory.
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I read the article and it was about public schools in several areas. In most, it seems that it was the school administration NOT the military that was making it a requirement and used rationale, citizenship and other areas of growth as reasons for requiring it.
 
OldRetSWO said:
I read the article and it was about public schools in several areas. In most, it seems that it was the school administration NOT the military that was making it a requirement and used rationale, citizenship and other areas of growth as reasons for requiring it.
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Correct; it was the schools, not the service.
 
JohnMcLane said:
I couldn't see the article but it appears it has about as much credibility and journalistic need for bringing this critical issue to public attention as that old homeless guy on the corner talking about his alien abduction back in 1978.

It is likely some private schools like military academies make it mandatory.
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Interesting take given that you couldn't read the article. It's good journalism with solid research. As mentioned above, the schools are pretty much all public schools.
 
flieger83 said:
AFJROTC...it's in our AFI (think regulation) that membership MUST be 100% voluntary. We are not allowed to accept any student that doesn't want to be in the program. AJROTC...that's army...they use JROTC as a recruiting source/tool (this from one of my counterparts) and as such they really push the service.

Us/me? I don't care if my students aren't interested in serving...I just want them to come into our program, learn a lot, experience a lot, become better students and young men/women...and set goals and achieve them!

They do that and I'm aglow like a proud parent!!
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Maybe you can clarify something about the JROTC curriculum. Who determines the textbooks used? And does JROTC teach history? I ask because of the article's link to another article on the textbooks used in some of the programs:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/...tion=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article
 
unkown1961 said:
Maybe you can clarify something about the JROTC curriculum. Who determines the textbooks used? And does JROTC teach history? I ask because of the article's link to another article on the textbooks used in some of the programs:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/...tion=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article
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The classes we teach in AFJROTC:
1. The Science of Flight (think aeronautical engineering principles without the heavy math, learning how things fly and why)
2. Exploring Space: The High Frontier (from early history to the present)
3. Journey into Aviation History (from Daedalus & Icarus to now)

These classes use textbooks supplied by the AF, they're approved by the same accreditation as other textbooks. Do we teach "history?" That's an incredibly broad question. I teach the history of aviation. Do we discuss Vietnam? Yes. Does the book talk about the Gulf of Tonkin? Yes. Do we go into great depth like a semester-long history of Vietnam class might? No. We also don't teach about the civil war, political movements, etc. That's not our focus; that's the bailiwick of the other teachers/classes. We teach about famous figures in aviation history, famous events, etc.

We also teach lessons in leadership and have the option to pursue other topics that fit the "life skills" category. I teach budgeting, taxes, public speaking, how to write a resume, and interview techniques, as well as simple things like how to iron a shirt and pants, how to put pants on a hanger, etc. Seems those skills aren't being taught at home much. That's just some of it.

Is the article "100% accurate?" I'm not sure, I'd have to go look at everything they quote, check which versions they used, etc. I know that our texts have been changing recently and have been updated. Have I ever been concerned? No.

I wonder if they'll next take on general education textbooks and discuss biology texts, history texts, civics, etc., and explain how they're just not right. Or will they?
 
NJROTC will teach some naval history (in one of four total textbooks, the others cover basic maritime concepts, citizenship, and leadership), but it is almost exclusively naval history with relatively little else. There is significant focus on maritime battles, at the cost of leaving out pretty significant chunks elsewhere--not American history, but American *naval* history.


It is very much oversimplified (early civilization to the modern era in about 150 pages) and is definitely not anywhere close in detail to the level of any AP or honors history course. The textbooks are standard nationwide (I believe published by the Naval Institute Press) and must be accessible to all levels of students. The purpose of the program is not academics (many schools use the JROTC program as an alternative to P.E.), and the textbook may not even be covered it its entirety, as sparse as it already is (e.g. maybe 1-2 lecture hours for academic material a week, the rest is leadership, seamanship, drill and ceremonies, uniform inspections, etc.).

The oversimplifications pointed out in above NYT article are probably accurate. The classes are also taught by military retirees who often don't actually have teaching credentials. Whether any particular pair of NJROTC instructors is able to teach history accurately while faithfully identifying every point of improper bias (personal or in the course material) is questionable. I think most of them just teach the curriculum as-is, per prepared lesson plans issued by NETC.

But to be fair I think the same could be said of many other high school teachers. College professors are definitely even worse when it comes to bias and opinion. And those people have teaching credentials and Ph.Ds.
 
unkown1961 said:
Interesting take given that you couldn't read the article. It's good journalism with solid research. As mentioned above, the schools are pretty much all public schools.
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I read other papers summaries of the article as well as the first two lines of the original article. This is the NYT doing a hatchet job on JROTC with a goal of undermining the program. This is hyperbolic activism, not journalism and serves no public interest.
 
flieger83 said:
I wonder if they'll next take on general education textbooks and discuss biology texts, history texts, civics, etc., and explain how they're just not right. Or will they?
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Thanks for the reply and the info. I appreciate it. As for that last question, I've seen them do articles on general education textbooks since the 80s (I'm old) on topics from the influence of large states on what publishers put in their textbooks to what is put in the textbooks (e.g., what is covered, what's glossed over, what isn't, etc.).
Again, thanks for the info on JROTC!
 
nuensis said:
NJROTC will teach some naval history (in one of four total textbooks, the others cover basic maritime concepts, citizenship, and leadership), but it is almost exclusively naval history with relatively little else. There is significant focus on maritime battles, at the cost of leaving out pretty significant chunks elsewhere--not American history, but American *naval* history.


It is very much oversimplified (early civilization to the modern era in about 150 pages) and is definitely not anywhere close in detail to the level of any AP or honors history course. The textbooks are standard nationwide (I believe published by the Naval Institute Press) and must be accessible to all levels of students. The purpose of the program is not academics (many schools use the JROTC program as an alternative to P.E.), and the textbook may not even be covered it its entirety, as sparse as it already is (e.g. maybe 1-2 lecture hours for academic material a week, the rest is leadership, seamanship, drill and ceremonies, uniform inspections, etc.).

The oversimplifications pointed out in above NYT article are probably accurate. The classes are also taught by military retirees who often don't actually have teaching credentials. Whether any particular pair of NJROTC instructors is able to teach history accurately while faithfully identifying every point of improper bias (personal or in the course material) is questionable. I think most of them just teach the curriculum as-is, per prepared lesson plans issued by NETC.

But to be fair I think the same could be said of many other high school teachers. College professors are definitely even worse when it comes to bias and opinion. And those people have teaching credentials and Ph.Ds.
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Interesting insight into JROTC, thanks.

It also seems that some schools are using the courses to replace PE and Health which may be due to teacher shortages.

About college professors, we actually don't have teaching credentials as teachers do in high school and grade school. In college, it's just a PhD if tenure track or a Masters if non-tenure track.
 
unkown1961 said:
Interesting insight into JROTC, thanks.

It also seems that some schools are using the courses to replace PE and Health which may be due to teacher shortages.

About college professors, we actually don't have teaching credentials as teachers do in high school and grade school. In college, it's just a PhD if tenure track or a Masters if non-tenure track.
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That's my next "goal"...college teaching.

I mean, I survived the Ph.D. "journey" so how hard can the teaching be??

:rofl:
 
flieger83 said:
That's my next "goal"...college teaching.

I mean, I survived the Ph.D. "journey" so how hard can the teaching be??

:rofl:
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🤣 That is one h*** of a journey! My wife retired as an AF Nurse and now teaches Nursing - it's a good gig, pay isn't much but nice time off and it is nice to see that you're helping students. What field?
 
unkown1961 said:
🤣 That is one h*** of a journey! My wife retired as an AF Nurse and now teaches Nursing - it's a good gig, pay isn't much but nice time off and it is nice to see that you're helping students. What field?
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My doctorate is officially in "Industrial & Organizational Psychology." Put simply, I view it as what we did as senior officers (and rising junior officers along our career journey) with individuals, teams, organizations, large groups, projects, deliverables, etc., in our careers.

The APA has a fancier description on their website: https://www.apa.org/ed/graduate/specialize/industrial

I'd like to teach the psychology classes, classes on leadership, team building, assessing teams/individuals, building relationships, and the like. I don't need to be a researching prof.
 
flieger83 said:
My doctorate is officially in "Industrial & Organizational Psychology." Put simply, I view it as what we did as senior officers (and rising junior officers along our career journey) with individuals, teams, organizations, large groups, projects, deliverables, etc., in our careers.

The APA has a fancier description on their website: https://www.apa.org/ed/graduate/specialize/industrial

I'd like to teach the psychology classes, classes on leadership, team building, assessing teams/individuals, building relationships, and the like. I don't need to be a researching prof.
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Good areas. Hope you find something. Looks like you could also teach management classes and Comm. And good idea to skip the tenure track process.
Maybe you know these sites, but in case you didn't, here are the sites most schools use to post jobs:
https://www.higheredjobs.com/faculty/
https://jobs.chronicle.com/
Also LinkedIn and Indeed.com
Good luck when you get to that point!
 
Public schools cannot require participation in JROTC, it is mandatory at a number of private schools like Randolph-Macon, Oak Ridge, Fishburne, Hargrave and others. And how about we stick to the subject with the discussion.
 
flieger83 said:
That's my next "goal"...college teaching.

I mean, I survived the Ph.D. "journey" so how hard can the teaching be??

:rofl:
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I do not hold a PhD but my retirement gig is as a college professor. BS from USNA along with an MBA
and I teach in the Humanities Dept. I started by teaching Business/Organizational Communications and
now teach Oral Presentation. In both courses I've had pretty much carte-blanche to develop my own syllabus
for the courses.
Full disclosure - I had more than a decade long relationship with the university prior to teaching there, first
I came in a few times to do guest lectures to a Tech Writing class and then was asked to serve on the University's
Board of Advisors so I was not a stranger to them.
 
conrack said:
Public schools cannot require participation in JROTC, it is mandatory at a number of private schools like Randolph-Macon, Oak Ridge, Fishburne, Hargrave and others. And how about we stick to the subject with the discussion.
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The article discusses that not all public schools follow that requirement: some public schools require it and others automatically enroll students but do not inform them that the class is optional. The article also quotes the military stating that JROTC is meant to be voluntary.
From the article:
"A review of J.R.O.T.C. enrollment data collected from more than 200 public records requests showed that dozens of schools have made the program mandatory or steered more than 75 percent of students in a single grade into the classes, including schools in Detroit, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Oklahoma City and Mobile, Ala."
 
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